US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 2/24-3/3

[EastUS]

There is no solution that I can see that will possibly unite this pilot group......The disconnect in the pilot group makes it virtually unsaleable, and that will never go away.

Agreed, although none can dismiss the possiblility, perhaps probablility of fragmentation within any potential "merger"/purchase/etc. It's extremely difficult to envision any even remotely sane enitity wishing to pick this strife-ridden mess up in it's entirety. One thing all have learned by now's that nothing is much predicable within this insane industry though, so who can ever really know? The old chinese blessing/curse seems apt = "May you live in interesting times"......

 

[luvn737s]

What makes you think there will be picket lines to cross?

We don't care if the westies decide to scab. That's not even news.

If it comes to self-help, it will be a "chaos" style endeavor which the AFA has already established in court as a legal tactic. In fact, they even trademarked the term CHAOS...Creating Havoc Around Our System.

It would be lovely to see you westies out there burning that fuel with empty airplanes as the system became too unreliable for people to book.

Do you want to be the one to find out how flimsy the defense of CHAOS is as your ID is being confiscated in a hotel in Frankfurt?

This isn't even worth puffing your chest up over.

 

[EastUS]

Do you want to be the one to find out how flimsy the defense of CHAOS is as your ID is being confiscated in a hotel in Frankfurt?

This isn't even worth puffing your chest up over.

Funny you should mention Franfurt..while with undoubtably the fullest "INTEGRITY" and "Righteousness" of course ,,,presumably puffing your own chest up about what ferociously effective "Sc---Umm..Strike-Breakers" your bunch would be...only possible if CHAOS has no value...Umm..,,just curious, since none of you out there are currently qualified on the aircraft; just which of you westies would then fly it back from Frankfurt? Best joke I've heard all day..Thanks

Realize that not all are as easilly intimidated as yourself......

(post self-edited to avoid excessively demonstrated contempt)

 

[PA18]

I participated in the PSA pilot strike in 1980, ...

...During that time furloughed pilots from Braniff and others were interviewing for our jobs, even as we walked the picket lines. The company was recruiting replacement pilots and was quite successful in obtaining the requesite number of pilots to do so...

...In case you haven't been keeping up on current events, or your 401K balance, these are perilous times and many will walk right over your back to get your job. As usual, right battle, wrong timing.

N924PS,

I seem to recall reading and/or hearing that it was a number of former Braniff pilots that kept Continental in business after Lorenzo abrogated the pilots' contract and triggered the 1983 strike.

And I would guess that many of those pilots, probably a majority ex-military as were the demographics at the time, perhaps had a much stronger sense of duty and dedication to ones fellow man that the "Me Generation" that occupy cockpits today.

Nonetheless, they had suffered the initial shock of their airline being the first major carrier to go out of business in the modern era; and they had been on the street for a year at that time, while some of their colleagues were fortunate enough to get picked up by other major airlines that were beginning to expand. (Hello, Duane Woerth?) So they had to be asking themselves, "What has ALPA done for me lately, and why should I honor their picket line when I'm starving?"

(I am not condoning their action, by any means. But I can at least make an attempt to understand it.)

That strike, on the heels of the 1981 ATC strike, during which airline pilots were perfectly content to conduct business as usual instead of supporting the controllers, sent a loud and clear message to airline managements and several management-friendly administrations that airline pilots are a very ununified, selfish lot that can he had.

And the history of ALPA and the piloting profession over the last quarter century speaks for itself.

Today, Mr. Parker would not need to employ strikebreakers from outside the company. And as much as a small minority of West pilots would relish the opportunity to fly East routes while East pilots were on strike, they will never have that opportunity.

No, Mr. Parker has more than enough pilots on hand already to negate any East job action. And they're all based on the east side of the Mississippi.

 

[nic4us]

As for "their word is no good,"..."INTEGRITY MATTERS"..."we'll cross picket lines in a heartbeat"...but, the west's the self-declared, supposed fountain from which all "Righteousness" flows/etc... I'd ask you all kindly: Just spare me

EastUS,

I do not claim that the West has a monopoly on "Integrity". Nor do I claim the West as being unquestionably "righteous".

As an individual, all I can do is try my best to live up to the priciples "integrity" honesty and honor.

As individuals, I would take the word of any east pilot at face value, and trust that word as honest.

As an organization, founded on the premise of using legal loopholes to attempt to deny its obligations to others, "USAPA's word is no good", there is really no question or debate about it. USAPA's "Integrity" is tainted, and I do not see how to restore it.

And, for the record for both sides. I will not cross a USAPA picket line, if it ever came to self help.

 

[Megasnoop]

Do you want to be the one to find out how flimsy the defense of CHAOS is as your ID is being confiscated in a hotel in Frankfurt?

ID being confiscated in a hotel in Frankfurt? By who? The German ID Police? Where do you get this nonsense?

To Clear:

Now exchange "pay scheme" with usapa conditions and restriction to protect the west. You have got the problem. You get DOH and C&R go away in the next merger. Where then is the "protection" for the west?

Clear, in recent depositions, your "DFR 6" couldnt even explain the USAPA DOH with Conditions and Restrictions, bcause they never read it. They just "knew" it was bad. from who? their handlers? And these are the representatives of your "class" who say the USAPA DOH (plus C&Rs) is a winnable DFR lawsuit?

Now AOL is out soliciting west pilots to donate. Not just because their running out of money, but because you cant have a class action without enough participants to convince the judge you really have a "class."

From: DXXXX X. XXXXX <[email protected]>
Date: February 23, 2009
Subject: IMPORTANT - Pass to ALL America West Pilots

Leonidas Update for February 23, 2009 West Pilot Class Representation

One of the requirements for a class action is that the class members are actually representative of and have the support of the rest of the class members. The law allows a defendant to obtain general information about that representation and support..The Judge is also aware that Leonidas exists as a fundraising effort, so Leonidas is also required to provide this information, with the same protections..There is no way to prove to the judge you support the effort unless you have made a donation. The closer we can get to showing 100% support for the cause, the greater the likelihood that Judge Wake will overrule USAPA's objections. We have the rest of the bases well covered, but class support is extremely important..If we don't make a strong stand, as a group, right now, to demonstrate to East and to the Court that we are in this to the end, we lose.

Bottom line, show your class, donate a buck. Your only 890 bucks (and does) short of being a class. MR Snoopster

 

[nycbusdriver]

Now AOL is out soliciting west pilots to donate. Not just because their running out of money, but because you cant have a class action without enough participants to convince the judge you really have a "class."

Bottom line, show your class, donate a buck. Your only 890 bucks (and does) short of being a class. MR Snoopster

I wonder what the judge will think of this tactic:

Want to be in the class? Pay up!

I wonder what the jury will think of it?

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

I wonder what the judge will think of this tactic:

Want to be in the class? Pay up!

I wonder what the jury will think of it?

Do you really think any of us want to be in your class?

Once the jury is shown the Catch-22 that is reflected in Article I, Section 8 and Article II, Section 6.E. of the usapa constitution, they will understand.

They will know without a doubt about class - and about no class.

And you may very well not like what they, the jury, think about it.

 

[cleardirect]

Clear, in recent depositions, your "DFR 6" couldnt even explain the USAPA DOH with Conditions and Restrictions, bcause they never read it. They just "knew" it was bad. from who? their handlers? And these are the representatives of your "class" who say the USAPA DOH (plus C&Rs) is a winnable DFR lawsuit?

Snoop,

You are relying on Seham’s characterization and interpretation of what was said. Have you read the entire transcripts of the dopos? Out of context, select statements don’t mean much.

I can tell you that I was at the hearing in Oct. The 6 plaintiff were in the court room. Mowery presented the entire usapa contrived C&R. Full color slides and everything. All of the plaintiff are well aware what they say and how they damage the west.

These guys represent the west very well. I have sat through the very boring and painful video explaining C&R. I can almost guarantee that because of the dedication of those guys. So have they.

If you have read the latest filings from yesterday it explains this well. Showing basic misunderstanding of class action by Seham.

Document 214 motion for class certification. Not on the usapa site yet? They are a little slow to post.

 

[nostradamus]

Same posts, different day.

 

[Megasnoop]

I can tell you that I was at the hearing in Oct. The 6 plaintiff were in the court room. Mowery presented the entire usapa contrived C&R. Full color slides and everything. All of the plaintiff are well aware what they say and how they damage the west.

Too bad they didnt pay attention. "Dopos" said none of them read it. Simple enough.

These guys represent the west very well. I have sat through the very boring and painful video explaining C&R. I can almost guarantee that because of the dedication of those guys. So have they.

Then they must have fallen asleep. They sure didnt do you any good in the depos. Once more, they dont represent a "class." Otherwise you wouldnt be begging for more donators.

Document 214 motion for class certification. Not on the usapa site yet? They are a little slow to post.

Then by all means, please share.
El snoopo

 

[westcoastflyer]

So, when is this long-awaited jury trial supposed to begin? Anybody have a definitive date?

 

[Metroyet]

I wonder what the judge will think of this tactic:

Guess who wants to see financial statements instead of mere petitions?

Since this was requested by the Judge i'm not too worried about it.

btw, the "tactic" worked beautifully.

 

[cleardirect]

Then they must have fallen asleep. They sure didnt do you any good in the depos. Once more, they dont represent a "class." Otherwise you wouldnt be begging for more donators.

You go ahead and believe what you want. Believe what Seham and usapa is telling you. Just don’t be disappointed if that does not turn out to be accurate.

Document 214 motion for class certification. Not on the usapa site yet? They are a little slow to post.

Then by all means, please share.

Snoop quite a bit of your dues money is going to support this litigation. You paid for the document. How about demanding from your union that they keep the library up to date. Why ask me for it?

Remember the usapa update. Unless it comes from usapa it is not true.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Too bad they didnt pay attention. "Dopos" said none of them read it. Simple enough.



Then they must have fallen asleep. They sure didnt do you any good in the depos. Once more, they dont represent a "class." Otherwise you wouldnt be begging for more donators.



Then by all means, please share.
El snoopo

Snoop,
In a couple of different posts now you have criticized the AOL folks for their inability (according to Seham) to accurately recite the C&R's from USAPA's DOH list. So I would ask you now, can you clearly articulate the intricacies of the Nicolau award?

And if I disagree with your interpretation I'll just discredit your assessment as though you never read it ('course you probably never have...).