TWU negotiations.........what?

[Bob Owens]

Bob,

My statement was



I think it is uncalled for that you take just part of that statement and twist my words to make it appear I was opposed to saving jobs.

?? Thats not the intent at all, I didnt agree with the "we saved all the jobs" part of the statement, thats why I said "I disagree to a point". Yes, we both agree that the jobs were lost in addition to the pay and benefits.

And I am not willing to sacrfice freedom for the sake of a coversion to socialism. I don't want to work for cause or have my kids or grandkids dictated to as to what job they will perform. You seem to think socialism only means a fai and equitable distribution of wealth, I think it also leads to less freedom, a reduction of liberites that we now enjoy. But I have been wrong before.

Well I have reletives who live in Ireland, a country with Socialized medicine, education, pensions and a prominent Socialist Party. So from a "right" perspective its a Socialist Country. One of their National Heroes is James Connelly, the person I mentioned in an earlier post and they have more freedoms than we do. For instance they are free to travel and spend their money anywhere on the face of the earth that they choose to. There are many countries where we as citizens of the US are restricted by our own government from going to and have to get permission from our own government to visit and conduct economic activity One example is Cuba, where if we spend too much of our own money we could end up being jailed for it. In Ireland the government doesnt tell people what they are going to do for a living either. They start off with six weeks vacation, long maternity leaves, medical coverage, pensions and government paid college education.Their Constitution cites the need to support family values, recognizing the family as the core of society,they restrict economic activity on Sundays, provide pretty much everything needed for the elderly and the young, yes they do pay high taxes but when you consider what they pay and what they get vs what we pay and what we get hey are doing pretty well.

Trading freedom and liberties for social economic welfare is like trading concessions for jobs. Expansion of this Federal Government in the name of fariness will not correct anything. At least right now we have the right to leave this industry if we dont like it.

Maybe you should read some of Debs, Connelly and Tressell and you will see that the only freedoms that are restricted are the freedoms of the rich and powerful to exploit workers, You are basing your opinions of Socialism on the totalitarian regimes of Communist dictatorships such as the USSR and not the democratic Republics of Europe,

Becoming a slave to the State is not my idea of advancement.

We already are. The State can confiscate our labor, our wages and even our homes, and they can do it for the benifit of Corporations.

You seem to be opposed to the concessions of your pay and benefits for jobs and the welfare of those with less seniority that would have otherwise been laid-off in 2003.

Yet you want to take from the labor of those who are better off than you and have it distributed to make things better for the good of all. What is the difference? SO there is evil and good ways to redistribute wealth you say. Well, please tell me what protections are in place once your socialist agenda takes ahold that will insure the good way prevails when it comes to the slaves of the state and/or your house and mine? Is the TWU and Organized Labor going to protect us? Oh they have done such a fine job to date. Wouldn't Jim Little say that the taking of your pay and benefits to protect the employment of others was done in a "good way", while most of us that still take that hit every two weeks would beg to differ?

I expect to enjoy the same rights and protections from the government as a worker that shareholders have as far as acting collectively for individual benifit. I want the freedom to act collectively in our best interests against much larger and more powerful corporations (which are collectives of investors). Our government has reduced our ability to do that.

Democracy with transparancy and accountability is what I support. I really dont have faith in any type of economic system, socialism, capitalism, fuedalism, any system left unchallenged eventually becomes corrupt, I like the balance that they have in Europe where the two ideologies comptete. Give one ear to the followers of Adam Smith and another to those of Karl Marx and let them compete based on who can provide us with what we need, but we are better off never making a choice because once its made the winner will no longer have to deliver.

Going back to the contract,
Management wants us to make AA number one in performance while they keep us at number five in pay,
Does that seem realistic? I say make us number one in pay then you have the right to expect us to do whatever we can to make you number one in performance. Its their move now.

 

[MCI transplant]

And in regard to the contract, rumor has it the company has no problem with the latest TWsnooze proposal but wants retiree health and pensons eliminated. Any hint of truth to this rumor??

<_< ----- For those not as enlighten as yourself, what is the "TWsnooze proposal" exactly? :huh:

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Hey Bob!----- Still no response!? :huh:

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< -------- Bob, If your referring to the weather, it's been hot here the last week or so, but no where near as hot as AFW, or TUL!-------- If your referring to a potential future RIF, I've got a question for you!--------Why is it that whenever a RIF is rumored, native AAers start looking our way? Or is it just my imagination? ------ "Guess its going to be another hot day in MCI tomorrow!!"

Wasnt referring to the RIF.
We're all AAers now, the reason they look your way (meaning MCI) is because AFW is newer and TUL is bigger. Location-wise MCI is probably the best place to put a major hub with an OH base. Its about as Central as you can get. DFWand Tulsa are too far South and ORD is too far East

 

[Bob Owens]

What would it take to get you in the position of Intl president of the TWU, Bob?

A miracle

How can we as members accomplish that?

You would have to convince your delegates to nominate me at the Convention and 50% +1 of all the delegates to vote for me. Not very likely.

If it were possible, would you take it on?

Hmm, have to think about that for a while, I never really considered it. Right now I'm just focusing on structural reform at the Convention.

Resolution to amend the Constitution

Amend Article XII Section 3

Whereas,
The Director of each division in effect represents the members within each division therefore they should be chosen by the representatives within that division,

Therefore Be It Resolved That;
We amend Article XII Section 3 as follows;

Article XII Section 3. The International Executive Council may establish Divisions, each of which shall consist of Local Unions with particular common interests and concerns. Each Division shall be administered by a director elected by the delegates from the Locals within that division at the Constitutional Convention or at any such time as that position becomes vacant between Constitutional Conventions.




Resolution to amend the Constitution

Amend Article XI Section 1

Whereas,
The Convention is conducted on behalf of the membership, the membership should be provided an accurate, accountable record of how they were represented at the Convention.

Whereas,
Current technology provides the means through which the members can be provided a detailed insight into how they are being represented at the Convention,

Whereas ,
Local 100 already has such a system in place and expansion to the Convention is the next logical progression.

Therefore Be It Resolved That;
We shall institute electronic balloting at all subsequent Conventions. The membership shall have made available to them a tally that illustrates how each delegate voted on each issue and the Convention can see the tally as it’s cast.

We amend Article XI Section 1 as follows;

Article XI Section 1

(d). The International Executive Council shall secure the services of a provider of electronic balloting to be used to provide accurate, immediate, recorded and reported tallies of all votes conducted at the Convention. This system shall provide immediate results to the Convention and the results with details shall be made available to the membership at the conclusion of the Convention.



Local Union Mergers
WHEREAS,


Many TWU Locals have experienced a decline in membership, economic hardships due to employer downsizing

WHEREAS,
Many of these Locals fall within the scope of a singular contract and were chartered mainly due to geographic diffusion of the membership, and the technology exists to mitigate the challenges of geographic diffusion,


WHEREAS,
By merging with other TWU Locals, in instances where a joining of forces would be strategically, geographically and economically advantageous, our Locals could experience an increased potential for growth in size and financial strength in their membership, as well as within their leadership pools,

WHEREAS,
Stronger locals can better serve their members,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED,
That the TWU Executive Council develop a strategy toward the further support of the merger of TWU Locals, and that this strategy include a list of advantages to further encourage our Locals to merge with one another.




Resolution to amend the Constitution

Addition of the Right to Recall Article XXXIII

Whereas;
Confidence in the leadership is essential in order to maintain union integrity and solidarity;

Therefore Be It Resolved;
That the Constitution will provide the membership the ability to hold its leaders accountable at all times by revising the Constitution to include the right to recall as follows;

ARTICLE XXXIII
Right to Recall
Section 1. Removal of International Officers- upon receipt of a written petition, signed by one third of the members in good standing of the Transport Workers Union, requesting the recall or removal of an officer of the International Union the International Secretary Treasurer (or International Executive Vice President if the Treasurer is cited in the petition) shall issue a call for a vote to be held in all the Locals within the International Union at their next membership meeting, not less than 15 days or more than 60 days of receipt of such petition to consider the recall or removal of said officer. In the event that a majority of the members of the union vote for the recall or removal of said officer, his/her office shall be considered vacant.

Section 2. Removal of Directors of Divisions-Upon receipt of a petition from the majority of Local Presidents within a division requesting the removal of the Director of a Division assigned to those Locals the International Secretary Treasurer shall issue a call for a vote to be held in all the Locals within the division at their next membership meeting, not less than 15 days or more than 60 day of receipt of such petition to consider the recall or removal of said Director. In the event that a majority of the members of those locals vote for the recall or removal of said director, his/her office shall be considered vacant.

Section 3. Removal of Local Officers. The membership of each local shall be entitled to amend their Bylaws to include recall subject to the approval of the International Administrative Committee.

Section 4. Appeal. Any officer or official removed pursuant to the provisions of this article shall have no right to appeal except only as to procedure.

 

[MCI transplant]

Wasnt referring to the RIF.
We're all AAers now, the reason they look your way (meaning MCI) is because AFW is newer and TUL is bigger. Location-wise MCI is probably the best place to put a major hub with an OH base. Its about as Central as you can get. DFWand Tulsa are too far South and ORD is too far East

<_< ------ Weather here is supposed to be in the upper 70's, low 80s, over the weekend. We've been in the 90's the last couple weeks, but AFW, and TUL have really been blasted! Triple digits!------- As far as all of us being AAers, that's pretty much the way I've seen it for quit some time now. But unfortunately, I don't believe everyone sees it that way!

 

[aamechntx]

Does anyone else here think that Bob Owens would make a great president of the International?

 

[The Goose]

Does anyone else here think that Bob Owens would make a great president of the International?

Sure he would, but there's the minor problem of the bus people. Little Jimmy has probably worked long and hard cultivating their obligations.

I'd vote for him in a second, given the chance.

 

[TWU informer]

You guys keep dreaming that the TWU could be changed from within.

I am shocked that after spending thousands from my personal bank account, filing lawsuits against my employer, doing battle with AA, TWU, AFL-CIO, and NMB to educate AA AMT's about how the TWU is entrenched in corruption and anti-democratic principles, that now after all of that, some here still believe the never to happen utopia that change is possible.

Pull your head out, will ya?

 

[Birdman]

<_< ----- For those not as enlighten as yourself, what is the "TWsnooze proposal" exactly? :huh:

Due to the secrecy of the negotiation process, "exactly" may never be known. We don't even have the "I" men walking around with beepers any more since the AMFA threat was vanquished. Last month it was reported in Tulsa that the union proposed a 6% limp sum back to the amendable date, 3.5% raise in 2010, memorial day, full sick pay, and perhaps other incidentals. I believe this might be fairly accurate since it was also reported that it was a mistake that this info was released.

 

[MCI transplant]

Due to the secrecy of the negotiation process, "exactly" may never be known. We don't even have the "I" men walking around with beepers any more since the AMFA threat was vanquished. Last month it was reported in Tulsa that the union proposed a 6% limp sum back to the amendable date, 3.5% raise in 2010, memorial day, full sick pay, and perhaps other incidentals. I believe this might be fairly accurate since it was also reported that it was a mistake that this info was released.

<_< -----Frankly, if I were to guess about it, I'de say that sounds about what they'de come up with!

 

[Bob Owens]

You guys keep dreaming that the TWU could be changed from within.

I am shocked that after spending thousands from my personal bank account, filing lawsuits against my employer, doing battle with AA, TWU, AFL-CIO, and NMB to educate AA AMT's about how the TWU is entrenched in corruption and anti-democratic principles, that now after all of that, some here still believe the never to happen utopia that change is possible.

Pull your head out, will ya?

Maybe we should start a new thread.

These are the cards on the table.

I'm not a newcomer, I'm aware of the obsticles, and I'm familiar with the sacrifices you've made, I've made some myself.

As for not pulling my head out, I guess its in my genes. I'm of Irish descent, my ancestors fought to get England out of Ireland for 800 years, they're 3/4s of the way there. Looks like the job wont be finished with semtex or armalites, instead it will be done by working within. If that doesnt work, they can always go back to the semtex and armalites.

Do you have any objections to any of the proposed resolutions? While none are revolutionary the intent of all of them is to bring a measure of accountability to the members.

 

[767 mechanic]

Has anybody heard anything about what went on in neg this week? All I'm hearing is rumors. One was that the company came in this week with no reply to the last proposal and that the mediator was not very happy. The other had somthing to with closing of MCIE and putting 600 mechanics on the street (not all from MCIE) along with some changes at AFW,but they did not say what the changes are.

 

[Mr.Robot-tow]

We were just updated by are president who is in neg's with Title 1 and 2,and Jim Weel from American Airlines was warn that they were to respond to the proposal the TWU had gave them 4 weeks ago,the mediator new after Monday that indeed that Jim Weel was not bargining in good faith and that the TWU was bargining in good faith,he put American on notice that when they meet again they will counteroffer/respond to the remaining 4 articles,pay,ot,sick,vacation that the TWU offered American.I just wish the Dallas press would pick up this story and run with it in the media,American needs to stop looking for more givebacks it is just not here anymore and to stall will just make it worst.This neg team will just wait to be released like the Allied Pilots Association is doing now with American.Also it is under the impression that MCIE will be closed sometime this year late or in the spring,depending on workload again this same old story about MCIE maintence hanger.If I recall wasn't there a JPMorgan conference call by Norton and company concerning the amount of hanger space need to be reduce and that American was going to make an announcement sometime ago about which hanger would be closing.It seems again that engineering can get it's act together on the 2010-2012 workload which would fall under this contract when ever it is sign.They were also told that are plane count will be down to the 1984 level by December of 2009.And that maintence's headcount might be effected by this.But with the FAA now having put American on a critical watch list of carriers,will see were this threat of headcount goes. So American Airlines is retreating from the market place rather fast now,and downsizing way to profitabilty.They also seem to been waiting for engineering to finallize the workload,sad that this airline's upper maintence planning is so jacked up.They have to wait for marketing to tell them how much capaicity will be cut before they can fiqure the workload and overnight maintence cost.Also the company informed the TWU to meet the 28-29 I was told to go over a package of some sort to be offered to maintence and or ramp.Since the number of people taking the SIS for the TWU in not reducing the headcount fast enough,and American does not want to resort to layoffs because of the cost involved there.I believe that the Stand and Stead policy was a joke to begin with,it is rather amazing that this policy that Gerald Arpey sign's off on from employee relations and HR,was so cheap that it actually piss people off with a insult like that.SIS did nothing but make people hurt and insulted,and people told me that find I stay and milk this company till I'm 60 or more.Depending on the next cap;s cuts coming this fall,they seem to wait till they look at bookings before they decided what to cut and how it will effect ramp and maintence.By stalling on a rather mild offer the TWU gave them this week seem's that American does not know what to do anymore,a rudderless ship so to speak base on what marketing tells them.This company is almost at the level of Northwest relations with it's employees before it filed bankrupcty,a rather sad ending for that carrier,for once the employees new what was happening they just helped push the company right into bankrupcty with poor performance and lack of drive to help the company back in it's day to day operations.Also when question about the one time date of siging to the amendable contract date back in May of 2008 check, this one time check is cap at around 20,000 to 24000 dallors for each mechanic,and that the 6% was only your base pay rate at that time for 2008-2009,not shift,OT,license was included it was not clear if it would be a flat tax rate or what ever you reported for your holdings for 2008-2009,nor was it clear if this would be included in your earnings for retirement sake.He stated he would get back with me on this.For the record I felt that no cap should be put on this and that each day the company does not respond in good faith that this one time payroll check would continue to grow with overtime included also,on this retro check it that is what you would call it.Much like the check back in 2000 I believe when we ratified the last contract.

 

[The Goose]

... snip

As for not pulling my head out, I guess its in my genes. I'm of Irish descent, my ancestors fought to get England out of Ireland for 800 years, they're 3/4s of the way there. Looks like the job wont be finished with semtex or armalites, instead it will be done by working within. If that doesnt work, they can always go back to the semtex and armalites.

... snip

Bob:

As if my opinion means anything, your proposed articles look great, but getting the bus drivers and our hand picked delegates to go along will be quite a fight.

As far as your example re: getting England out of Ireland - the Irish had no qualms about stepping away from or outright ignoring the legalities/common decencies we are bound by. Nice thought, though.

The International isn't going to relinquish its meal ticket easily at all, but after changing the basic structure almost anything can be made to work properly.

The problem with the TWU is the same as the one with the Federal Government - too many simply don't care and are content to let "them" take care of all problems - "them" and "they" did a helluva job for themselves with respect to both, don't you think? Mandatory attendence of union meetings to some degree would be beneficial and help avoid a return to the cronyism should anything like what you suggest gets enacted.