TWU negotiations.........what?

[iluvaa]

If Jim Little is the focus of your attention with everything that is going on at the Company, in the industry, and around the world - we are in trouble as a union. Pretty easy to call other people out on a website blog. I'm new to this site and I've asked the question many times, what do you suggest we do to save our jobs and and keep AA running?

we have done all we can do they need to go into bankruptcy to do more sry. cant keep giving why they keep rewarding themselves

 

[High Speed Steel]

HSS.

I am not leaving you hanging at all my friend. There is no winner or loser in this arguement,

There are only losers. And that is and always has been the membership that desire a real union.

The objective is simple, you will not learn about the TWU by you and me argueing back and forth. You will learn about the TWU by experience from your ever growing open minded position, or from simple taking of the shaft. Just as I did. It takes time to see through their professional presented smoke screen.

The only question really left in my mind is "Will you be the next to start a card drive to rid ourselves of the problem", or you will you be another "Screw this I give up" and just simply become a silent opponent of the TWU. Rest assured, you are about to see the facts as I saw them years ago. You will NEVER be the defender you once were. I know, I was just like you a day or so ago.

I have always seen you as a friend and as an ally, it is you that I am awaiting to see or feel the wrath of company unionism. Your response to this realization will dictate our future relationship. But we are truely not on opposite side of beliefs in our treatment as skilled workers. You may have seen me as your enemy in the past, but soon you will see that I was actually your best friend in a difficult battle for our future.Hard to understand, but time will show this be true and a sad fact.

I predicit that at minimum you and have a hand shake truce that reflects an understanding of why things happened the way they did, and that in the end you feel used and abused by your own union. And I feel simply sorry that members cannot see the truth through that agenda of fear and despair. I am now closer to "I give up" than ever before in my career.

Hand Shake soon?

Informer, I have to say there is allot of truth within your post to my growing open minded position. But I have to tell you, no matter how pissed off I am at our leadership and the direction they are taking us within this round of negotiations I still have to remind myself that I have a job to do. The members still come first, and the time will come to deal with the leadership......

BTW, The hand shake truce sounds great.

 

[1AA]

If Jim Little is the focus of your attention with everything that is going on at the Company, in the industry, and around the world - we are in trouble as a union. Pretty easy to call other people out on a website blog. I'm new to this site and I've asked the question many times, what do you suggest we do to save our jobs and and keep AA running?

SIMPLE, but not so easy to do.

GET RID OF THE TWU and form our own union or try to find a better union.

The TWU is a disease infested organization with no cure for its members.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

If Jim Little is the focus of your attention with everything that is going on at the Company, in the industry, and around the world - we are in trouble as a union. Pretty easy to call other people out on a website blog. I'm new to this site and I've asked the question many times, what do you suggest we do to save our jobs and and keep AA running?

Its not my job to keep AA running. This POS company pays me to fix airplanes and thats what I do. The unfortunate thing is AA wants us to do it for nothing. So save me your babble about the industry and the world. We have been in trouble as a union ever since the twu started giving back which was about 15 years ago. Suggestions about saving jobs well the twu did that for you 6 years ago they gave away the farm to save your job which in turn became the moral booster of the century. As far as keeping AA running who cares. The only thing that is going to change is the color on that tail. There will allways be airplanes and there will allways be broken ones to fix the rest is up to you to figure out.

 

[TWU informer]

If Jim Little is the focus of your attention with everything that is going on at the Company, in the industry, and around the world - we are in trouble as a union. Pretty easy to call other people out on a website blog. I'm new to this site and I've asked the question many times, what do you suggest we do to save our jobs and and keep AA running?

Saving Jobs and Keeping AA running are two opposites. That is the problem we have now because we saved all the jobs by the concessions of 50 year of negotiated benefits, which in turn left over capacity and inability to make a profit.

What we need to keep AA running is less jobs and less aircraft. Reducing until such time the seat commands a profit instead of saving jobs and selling seats for less than they cost to produce. Or we revert to the Crandall theory of growth whereby there is a new pay/benefit scale that causes growth of the airline to reduce the average cost per available seat mile.

If you have difficulty understanding this concept then do a simple search on the many writings that discuss supply versus demand in a society of capitalism. The POS Union invoked it's socialist views without ratification, that caused us to subisidize jobs with concessions and now the supply outpaces the demand so much that the airline is spiraling towards the banakruptcy filing that we were suppose to have averted.

 

[Bob Owens]

Saving Jobs and Keeping AA running are two opposites. That is the problem we have now because we saved all the jobs by the concessions of 50 year of negotiated benefits, which in turn left over capacity and inability to make a profit.

What we need to keep AA running is less jobs and less aircraft. Reducing until such time the seat commands a profit instead of saving jobs and selling seats for less than they cost to produce. Or we revert to the Crandall theory of growth whereby there is a new pay/benefit scale that causes growth of the airline to reduce the average cost per available seat mile.

If you have difficulty understanding this concept then do a simple search on the many writings that discuss supply versus demand in a society of capitalism. The POS Union invoked it's socialist views without ratification, that caused us to subisidize jobs with concessions and now the supply outpaces the demand so much that the airline is spiraling towards the banakruptcy filing that we were suppose to have averted.

I disagree to a point, we didnt come close to saving "all the jobs", we are down 35% in headcount. Just as I predicted back in 2003, they will take the money and the jobs, and they did.

The union just rolled over again supposedly because 600 to 800 jobs "May" be at risk in 2012 if the company doesnt get enough 3p work to fill the docks. From 2003 to 2008 we lost 35% of our coworkers mainly through attrition, or 7% a year, so that means by 2012 we could likely lose another 28% or around 2800 more workers. Why we were so concerneed about attracting 3P work three years from now in order to save 600 to 800 people that they may not even be able to find I cant understand.

I think that some are more concerned about the company or keeping their per capita up with new hires than making sure their CURRENT members make a good wage.

I am 100% against whats on the table at present. I can assure you that I am more of a Socialist than those who support worker subsidization of corporate greed. Socialists would never support this crap, just look at what workers get in Socialist countries like the ones in Europe. If you read through Socialist writings you will not find anything that supports whats been going on here.

My job is not to help the company create jobs for the future through cheap labor, I will fight to protect those who are here to prevent them from getting laid off, but my main purpose is to get as much as we can possibly squeeze out of the company for the guys who are here and insure that those who follow are offered the same. The best thing I can do for future workers is improve pay and benifits so when they get here they have a good job, and sooner or later, we all will die or retire, they will have to hire replacements.

I could care less if they ever increase the headcount in my Local, I prefer to see my members get more, not to get more members. But unfortunately thats just me(and maybe a few others but I wont speak for them.

Guess its going to be another hot day in MCI tomorrow!!

 

[High Speed Steel]

I disagree to a point, we didnt come close to saving "all the jobs", we are down 35% in headcount. Just as I predicted back in 2003, they will take the money and the jobs, and they did.

The union just rolled over again supposedly because 600 to 800 jobs "May" be at risk in 2012 if the company doesnt get enough 3p work to fill the docks. From 2003 to 2008 we lost 35% of our coworkers mainly through attrition, or 7% a year, so that means by 2012 we could likely lose another 28% or around 2800 more workers. Why we were so concerneed about attracting 3P work three years from now in order to save 600 to 800 people that they may not even be able to find I cant understand.

I think that some are more concerned about the company or keeping their per capita up with new hires than making sure their CURRENT members make a good wage.

I am 100% against whats on the table at present. I can assure you that I am more of a Socialist than those who support worker subsidization of corporate greed. Socialists would never support this crap, just look at what workers get in Socialist countries like the ones in Europe. If you read through Socialist writings you will not find anything that supports whats been going on here.

My job is not to help the company create jobs for the future through cheap labor, I will fight to protect those who are here to prevent them from getting laid off, but my main purpose is to get as much as we can possibly squeeze out of the company for the guys who are here and insure that those who follow are offered the same. The best thing I can do for future workers is improve pay and benifits so when they get here they have a good job, and sooner or later, we all will die or retire, they will have to hire replacements.

I could care less if they ever increase the headcount in my Local, I prefer to see my members get more, not to get more members. But unfortunately thats just me(and maybe a few others but I wont speak for them.

Guess its going to be another hot day in MCI tomorrow!!

Bob, I as well am 100% against what's on the table. I think the projected losses in headcount will come sooner than the 2012 date you cited if what the union has proposed to the company meets ratification by the membership.....

 

[TWU informer]

Bob,

I fail to read where you "disagreed" with my post.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,

I fail to read where you "disagreed" with my post.

That is the problem we have now because we saved all the jobs

That and the claim that the decisions are the result of "Socialist" views.

Socialism is a dirty word in this country, its associated with names like Stalin and Mao and official state Atheism, however the theories that fall under Socialism vary, as do the charecters. Eugine Debs and James Connelly were socialists as well but we dont really hear about them. The writings of Connelly, head of the TGWU were hugely influential on the mindset of a large percentage of the early leaders and members of the TWU. Robert Tressell is another Socialist writer who I feel represents positive aspects of Socilaist theory.

I look at it this way, Herb Kelleher and Frank Lorenzo are both Capitalists however their treatment of human beiengs and their ethics are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

The goals of Kelleher and Lorenzo are to earn profits for their shareholders. In the case of Kelleher its done in a positive way, in the case of Lorenzo its done in an evil way. So profit making can be done in a good way or an evil way.

Socialism is pretty much the same way, distributing wealth can be done in a good way or an evil way. Insuring that the playing field is level so workers can achieve a fair wage is a positive way of distributing the wealth that we all help create, executing the rich and confiscating their wealth is obviously an evil way of wealth redistribution. Debs, Connelly and Tressell are the Herb Kellehers of Socialism while Stalin and Mao are the Frank Lorenzos.

 

[aamechntx]

What would it take to get you in the position of Intl president of the TWU, Bob? How can we as members accomplish that? If it were possible, would you take it on?

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< -------- Bob, If your referring to the weather, it's been hot here the last week or so, but no where near as hot as AFW, or TUL!-------- If your referring to a potential future RIF, I've got a question for you!--------Why is it that whenever a RIF is rumored, native AAers start looking our way? 😉 Or is it just my imagination? ------ "Guess its going to be another hot day in MCI tomorrow!!"

 

[TWU informer]

Bob,

My statement was

That is the problem we have now because we saved all the jobs by the concessions of 50 year of negotiated benefits, which in turn left over capacity and inability to make a profit.

I think it is uncalled for that you take just part of that statement and twist my words to make it appear I was opposed to saving jobs.

I think we both agree that the jobs were lost in addition to the pay and benefits.

I still think giving away 50 years of negotiated pay and benefits to "SAVE" jobs regardless of whether AA eventually got the jobs or not is a problem.

CONCESSIONS FOR JOBS IS THE PROBLEM.

OVER CAPACITY IS A PROBLEM IN THIS INDUSTRY.

REDUCING CAPACITY IS NEEDED.

IF NOT FURTHER JOB LOSS, THEN WHAT? LESS PRODUCTIVITY AND KEEP EVERYONE A PLACE TO SIT ON THEIR ASS? Bankruptcy and your pension and health insurance coming from the Federal Government?

And I am not willing to sacrfice freedom for the sake of a coversion to socialism. I don't want to work for cause or have my kids or grandkids dictated to as to what job they will perform. You seem to think socialism only means a fai and equitable distribution of wealth, I think it also leads to less freedom, a reduction of liberites that we now enjoy. But I have been wrong before.

Trading freedom and liberties for social economic welfare is like trading concessions for jobs. Expansion of this Federal Government in the name of fariness will not correct anything. At least right now we have the right to leave this industry if we dont like it.

Becoming a slave to the State is not my idea of advancement.

You seem to be opposed to the concessions of your pay and benefits for jobs and the welfare of those with less seniority that would have otherwise been laid-off in 2003.

Yet you want to take from the labor of those who are better off than you and have it distributed to make things better for the good of all. What is the difference? SO there is evil and good ways to redistribute wealth you say. Well, please tell me what protections are in place once your socialist agenda takes ahold that will insure the good way prevails when it comes to the slaves of the state and/or your house and mine? Is the TWU and Organized Labor going to protect us? Oh they have done such a fine job to date. Wouldn't Jim Little say that the taking of your pay and benefits to protect the employment of others was done in a "good way", while most of us that still take that hit every two weeks would beg to differ?

 

[goodfellow]

Wishing the best for all, stick together my brothers and sisters, GF

 

[Birdman]

And in regard to the contract, rumor has it the company has no problem with the latest TWsnooze proposal but wants retiree health and pensons eliminated. Any hint of truth to this rumor??

 

[Bagbelt]

Freedom? Yes, you can critisise politicians and the gov. w/o getting beat up. But most workers are 3 weeks away from living on the street. just don't get old, sick, or ask for a raise and you'll be just fine. I love my country, but somewhere along the line we have become a people who defend the rights of billionaires while we tear each other apart. Labor hasn't gotten a break from either party since the Wagner act, and as unions have been emasculated in the private sector they are being declared war on in the public sector. With maybe 8 or 9% of the private sector unionised, you would think it is the end of our civilisation the way the chamber of commerce makes card check sound. Rugged individulaism may have been great in an agrarian society, but we are easy pickings in a post industrial service economy.