TWU negotiations.........what?

[TWU informer]

The memerships of all the locals must speak up and ensure their leaders are representing their members and are motioning and voting in negotiations in the way that the members would want them to if they were able to be at negotiations themselves.

If the TWU has secret negotiations, and the negotiating committee will vote out anyone leaking out the facts, then how do we even find out what is taking place in negotiations? How do we confirm or even know if our interest are being represented or not?

If you ask the Local President to get the election committee together and send a ballot to the membership to glean the membership view of our so-called "working together" program, and the President refuses because he knows the membership views will differ from his current leadership direction, then we should be speak up to who?

The members of my local voted three times NOT to build a new Union Hall, it was built anyway. Thus only a few in this Local waste their time to go to the Union Meetings. Members will only beat their head against a wall for so long, then they move on to things in their lives that they actually have a little control over....Like Fishing, Hunting, and Riding Harleys.

Even the most diligent TWU Supporting members have submitteed negotiation proposals to equal out the skill premium pay between licensed AMT's and unlicensed skilled machinist, welders, composite tech, platers, ect. These submitted proposals out numbered any other proposal in volume. Only to the have the Local President claim that taking such a position is "political suicide". So they now speak up to who?

I think political suicide has already happened with our Local President and he his already "lame duck", but that still doesn't get these very vocal members views represented.

There is a long history of Tulsa Union leaders that are going to "save us from ourselves" so they either refuse to use the ballot, or the capabilities of the internet to engage the membership. Instead they come to believe that "they are all knowing" and the best direction would be for them to make all decisions for us. The membership has given up going to local union meetings to complain because they are just ridiculed by the chair and made to look the complainer. Even when ask by other Officers to come to a union meeting to force an issue, I end up not bothering to go because I already know the outcome of TWU Local Union Meetings. Someday there may be a person elected that speaking up to may actually have an impact, but not likely.

Luis will be in management just like Thompson, Hammack, Easton, Klopp, and others sooner rather than later.

 

[High Speed Steel]

If the TWU has secret negotiations, and the negotiating committee will vote out anyone leaking out the facts, then how do we even find out what is taking place in negotiations? How do we confirm or even know if our interest are being represented or not?

If you ask the Local President to get the election committee together and send a ballot to the membership to glean the membership view of our so-called "working together" program, and the President refuses because he knows the membership views will differ from his current leadership direction, then we should be speak up to who?

The members of my local voted three times NOT to build a new Union Hall, it was built anyway. Thus only a few in this Local waste their time to go to the Union Meetings. Members will only beat their head against a wall for so long, then they move on to things in their lives that they actually have a little control over....Like Fishing, Hunting, and Riding Harleys.

Even the most diligent TWU Supporting members have submitteed negotiation proposals to equal out the skill premium pay between licensed AMT's and unlicensed skilled machinist, welders, composite tech, platers, ect. These submitted proposals out numbered any other proposal in volume. Only to the have the Local President claim that taking such a position is "political suicide". So they now speak up to who?

I think political suicide has already happened with our Local President and he his already "lame duck", but that still doesn't get these very vocal members views represented.

There is a long history of Tulsa Union leaders that are going to "save us from ourselves" so they either refuse to use the ballot, or the capabilities of the internet to engage the membership. Instead they come to believe that "they are all knowing" and the best direction would be for them to make all decisions for us. The membership has given up going to local union meetings to complain because they are just ridiculed by the chair and made to look the complainer. Even when ask by other Officers to come to a union meeting to force an issue, I end up not bothering to go because I already know the outcome of TWU Local Union Meetings. Someday there may be a person elected that speaking up to may actually have an impact, but not likely.

Luis will be in management just like Thompson, Hammack, Easton, Klopp, and others sooner rather than later.

Hey Informer, I find it interesting that there have been no responses to either your, or my post from the line folks that visit this forum. They must have our local President in their pocket and anything that effects us as skilled workers must be ignored. I find it funny that they want us to support them with their issues but when it comes to supporting us as skilled workers at a Maintenance Base they turn their heads.....

 

[TWU informer]

I am not about to blame the line mechanics for the divisions negotiated by the TWU. Everybody in this union is only out for themselves. The OSM's, Facilities Maintenance, Stores, just as we are looking for a fair shake in our pocket. Actually, I have trouble calling the TWU a "Union" anymore myself. The line guys are all looking for regional pay to counter their cost living and that is their focus. Machininst and Welders seek to balance the skill pay, the licensed OSM is still losing his skill pay all together daily. Again, I don't blame the line guy at all and neither should anyone else that has watched the TWU negotiate for the last 20+ years.

What I find more interesting is that you and others thought AMFA would sell you short in favor of the licencsed mechanic so you wouldnt sign a card. However you have been sold short by the TWU for years now and it appears you will continue to be. So now what should we do about this problem we all have together?

 

[High Speed Steel]

I am not about to blame the line mechanics for the divisions negotiated by the TWU. Everybody in this union is only out for themselves. The OSM's, Facilities Maintenance, Stores, just as we are looking for a fair shake in our pocket. Actually, I have trouble calling the TWU a "Union" anymore myself. The line guys are all looking for regional pay to counter their cost living and that is their focus. Machininst and Welders seek to balance the skill pay, the licensed OSM is still losing his skill pay all together daily. Again, I don't blame the line guy at all and neither should anyone else that has watched the TWU negotiate for the last 20+ years.

What I find more interesting is that you and others thought AMFA would sell you short in favor of the licencsed mechanic so you wouldnt sign a card. However you have been sold short by the TWU for years now and it appears you will continue to be. So now what should we do about this problem we all have together?

Good post Informer. I see you're still going it alone, what does that tell you about support from your union brothers? We don't meet the fold as skilled workers, only considered a drain on others ability to obtain recognition so they expect us to give so they can achieve more. By the looks of things we have a local President who seems to support this type of activity. Vote him "Off the Island"..........

 

[The Goose]

Good post Informer. I see you're still going it alone, what does that tell you about support from your union brothers? We don't meet the fold as skilled workers, only considered a drain on others ability to obtain recognition so they expect us to give so they can achieve more. By the looks of things we have a local President who seems to support this type of activity. Vote him "Off the Island"..........

No - we have a local president and some others with company jobs awaiting after they are voted off the island ... and we're paying how much a month for this?

As an aside - I heard a rumor about a rank and file vote as to whether or not to continue this 'working alone' campaign - heard anything?

 

[TWU informer]

Good post Informer. I see you're still going it alone, what does that tell you about support from your union brothers? We don't meet the fold as skilled workers, only considered a drain on others ability to obtain recognition so they expect us to give so they can achieve more. By the looks of things we have a local President who seems to support this type of activity. Vote him "Off the Island"..........

I am not sure if you realize this fact or not, but Union's are majority rule organizations.

 

[High Speed Steel]

No - we have a local president and some others with company jobs awaiting after they are voted off the island ... and we're paying how much a month for this?

As an aside - I heard a rumor about a rank and file vote as to whether or not to continue this 'working alone' campaign - heard anything?

To your aside- Yes I've heard a rumor about the working alone or together campaign. The time may be near for the membership to have a voice in the matter.

 

[High Speed Steel]

I am not sure if you realize this fact or not, but Union's are majority rule organizations.

Really, who'da thought that? I sure did when I submitted my proposals.....

Don't know about you Informer but I think its time for a "system re-boot" back to 4-14-2003 and start over...

 

[High Speed Steel]

Informer, I love the way you try to leave me hanging as if you have won your argument. I will give you just a little taste of what I know...Do you remember the Strike Vote taken by the Local for this round of negotiations at the UMAC? What's missing from the agenda that the majority of the membership was in full support of striking over? Political suicide? Bull chittt........

Unions majority ruled? You betcha.......

 

[TWU informer]

Informer, I love the way you try to leave me hanging as if you have won your argument. I will give you just a little taste of what I know...Do you remember the Strike Vote taken by the Local for this round of negotiations at the UMAC? What's missing from the agenda that the majority of the membership was in full support of striking over? Political suicide? Bull chittt........

Unions majority ruled? You betcha.......

HSS.

I am not leaving you hanging at all my friend. There is no winner or loser in this arguement,

There are only losers. And that is and always has been the membership that desire a real union.

The objective is simple, you will not learn about the TWU by you and me argueing back and forth. You will learn about the TWU by experience from your ever growing open minded position, or from simple taking of the shaft. Just as I did. It takes time to see through their professional presented smoke screen.

The only question really left in my mind is "Will you be the next to start a card drive to rid ourselves of the problem", or you will you be another "Screw this I give up" and just simply become a silent opponent of the TWU. Rest assured, you are about to see the facts as I saw them years ago. You will NEVER be the defender you once were. I know, I was just like you a day or so ago.

I have always seen you as a friend and as an ally, it is you that I am awaiting to see or feel the wrath of company unionism. Your response to this realization will dictate our future relationship. But we are truely not on opposite side of beliefs in our treatment as skilled workers. You may have seen me as your enemy in the past, but soon you will see that I was actually your best friend in a difficult battle for our future.Hard to understand, but time will show this be true and a sad fact.

I predicit that at minimum you and have a hand shake truce that reflects an understanding of why things happened the way they did, and that in the end you feel used and abused by your own union. And I feel simply sorry that members cannot see the truth through that agenda of fear and despair. I am now closer to "I give up" than ever before in my career.

Hand Shake soon?

 

[The Goose]

HSS.

I am not leaving you hanging at all my friend. There is no winner or loser in this arguement,

There are only losers. And that is and always has been the membership that desire a real union.

The objective is simple, you will not learn about the TWU by you and me argueing back and forth. You will learn about the TWU by experience from your ever growing open minded position, or from simple taking of the shaft. Just as I did. It takes time to see through their professional presented smoke screen.

The only question really left in my mind is "Will you be the next to start a card drive to rid ourselves of the problem", or you will you be another "Screw this I give up" and just simply become a silent opponent of the TWU. Rest assured, you are about to see the facts as I saw them years ago. You will NEVER be the defender you once were. I know, I was just like you a day or so ago.

I have always seen you as a friend and as an ally, it is you that I am awaiting to see or feel the wrath of company unionism. Your response to this realization will dictate our future relationship. But we are truely not on opposite side of beliefs in our treatment as skilled workers. You may have seen me as your enemy in the past, but soon you will see that I was actually your best friend in a difficult battle for our future.Hard to understand, but time will show this be true and a sad fact.

I predicit that at minimum you and have a hand shake truce that reflects an understanding of why things happened the way they did, and that in the end you feel used and abused by your own union. And I feel simply sorry that members cannot see the truth through that agenda of fear and despair. I am now closer to "I give up" than ever before in my career.

Hand Shake soon?

Not trying to hijack your conversation with HSS, but I have to ask - what, pray tell, would you have the TWU be replaced with that is better than it's proven itself to be?

AFL-CIO affiliates have their "No Raid" gentlemens' (yeah - right) agreement (why the Teamsters left the AFL-CIO. They wanted to raid). The Teamsters were all over UAL until they were voted in, then the union reps disappeared. They're out.

SEIU? Nah. I can't speak Spanish that well.

AMFA? I believe that's your choice, but why would you want representation that, after losing its memberships' jobs in an ill-advised strike at NWA, tried to get the scab replacements to begin paying dues? They may have a better constitution than the TWU, but that group of SOBs has no principals nor values that should be first and foremost in any union. Like all the others, survival is their primary concern and it's rather evident AMFA's membership didn't care enough to remove the problem children from their positions.

I'm not interested in voting for something that needs to be fixed, said change being resisted by the boys in the suits at every turn. I've no interest in voting for "representaion" that leaves after dues are secured.

 

[Strake]

Who needs a union? Nothing happens, nothing changes. Working people continually vote in governmental representation that is not in their best interests and then wonder why things are the way they are. Corruption and greed are the problems. I say "I CALL"! I'm all in. Shut er down!


Oh btw.... You amfa guys still amuse me.

 

[The Goose]

Who needs a union? Nothing happens, nothing changes. Working people continually vote in governmental representation that is not in their best interests and then wonder why things are the way they are. Corruption and greed are the problems. I say "I CALL"! I'm all in. Shut er down!


Oh btw.... You amfa guys still amuse me.

I've worked non-union shops and can't really tell the difference between having a union on the property or not when the comparison is made with American Airlines and its pet union, the TWU.

 

[Strake]

I've worked non-union shops and can't really tell the difference between having a union on the property or not when the comparison is made with American Airlines and its pet union, the TWU.

So you're implying that if it were not for the TWU things would be different? Now thats really amusing. I say that we all follow the example set by our leadership (company and union)..... really, what have they been doing? Besides getting rich and dragging their feet. Sorry to sound so negative but I feel we've jumped through enough hoops already. Lets get on with it. We've gave up enough. There is nothing more to trade. Its time to for the company's leadership to either pay us what we are worth or shut it down. Better yet, pay us what we are worth and step aside and let some new blood in to run the show. How can anyone have faith in people that are pretty much in it for themselves.....

 

[The Goose]

So you're implying that if it were not for the TWU things would be different? Now thats really amusing. I say that we all follow the example set by our leadership (company and union)..... really, what have they been doing? Besides getting rich and dragging their feet. Sorry to sound so negative but I feel we've jumped through enough hoops already. Lets get on with it. We've gave up enough. There is nothing more to trade. Its time to for the company's leadership to either pay us what we are worth or shut it down. Better yet, pay us what we are worth and step aside and let some new blood in to run the show. How can anyone have faith in people that are pretty much in it for themselves.....

I implied nothing of the sort - you know exactly what I tried to say but tried to twist the words as any good management type would do.