TWU negotiations.........what?

[Vortilon]

Bob and his vote no coalition burned down the house, took thousands upon thousands out of members pockets, and will continue to do so now that our pay will be locked at current rates for the next 6 years. Excluding those that get their pay cut. All of it was done based on half truths and ill thought out plans. He is a poor leader and has led all the sheep off the cliff and now won't cop to any of it but instead balmes everyone and everything except himself. Pretty weak.

I know you don't actually believe the crap you post. You couldn't find 5 fellow DFW coneheads who even know who Bob is. This begs the question, how could Bob lead anybody off the cliff - if they don't know who Bob is?

 

[Birdman]

I never said it was a lie, I said that most of you, with the exception of you, say the company lies and you used the company's words, which in this case weren't lies, to cite in your post. That's all.

The biggest concession is coming in the form of up to, maybe, 40% outsourcing. The members rejected it because they were assured hopeful they would get better. We all know how that's turning out, since hindsight is 20/20. 2/3rds vote no now on the TA, doubtful probable.

That wasn't a deflection, you cited AMFA's open negotiations as a way to stop concessions keep the membership informed and the proceedings honest. I pointed out that they gave away a ton of overhaul jobs and line jobs. That's not deflection, that's the facts. Well, maybe it's not all facts but the TWU did support the 800 scabs left at NWA.

 

[DallasConehead]

But now he is being outvoted by the other negotiators and they are all wrong, or Little is riding rough shot over everything and the negotiators have no say. Bob played into everyone's dreams (restore and more, full retro, more on the table, TUL shouldn't have to work weekends) which are stuff we all wanted, but the realities aren't there for this to happen. At least a third of us realized this. Hopefully the $15k bet that everyone lost on will open some eyes to the rhetoric coming from the vote no coalition. They talk a great game but will not be able to deliver. I wish they could deliver I just have my eyes open to the situation we are ALL in.

It will be a lot more then just 15k when you factor in 6 years of reduced pay when the company gets their way as far as length of the agreement. More like 15k x 8.

We will only be stuck with it if enough guys like you vote yes

Spin spin spin, never taking responsibility for actions. But instead spewing vitreous accusations.

I know you don't actually believe the crap you post. You couldn't find 5 fellow DFW coneheads who even know who Bob is. This begs the question, how could Bob lead anybody off the cliff - if they don't know who Bob is?

You make your claims and I’ll make mine. We’ll agree to disagree. Your post shows your mindset, when someone differs with your opinion, it’s labeled as “crap”.

 

[Mr Red]

But now he is being outvoted by the other negotiators and they are all wrong, or Little is riding rough shot over everything and the negotiators have no say. Bob played into everyone's dreams (restore and more, full retro, more on the table, TUL shouldn't have to work weekends) which are stuff we all wanted, but the realities aren't there for this to happen. At least a third of us realized this. Hopefully the $15k bet that everyone lost on will open some eyes to the rhetoric coming from the vote no coalition. They talk a great game but will not be able to deliver. I wish they could deliver I just have my eyes open to the situation we are ALL in.

Time for another History lesson..It was not restore and more,it was NO MORE CONCESSIONS!!!!!And that is what that POS T/A was .And it was rightly a landslide NO VOTE !

 

[Duke787]

Time for another History lesson..It was not restore and more,it was NO MORE CONCESSIONS!!!!!And that is what that POS T/A was .And it was rightly a landslide NO VOTE !

Ya you are correct, WE showed the company who's boss, not only did every mech give AA $15k but we will also give them a frozen pension, retiree medical, another 6 years of no meaningful raises (social security will get more raise's then us) not only are we going to lose much more then what we were going to lose in the TA we're not getting any pay raise. Think about this, the 6 year contract will probably be stretched an additional 3 years. And the sad part is the OH guys will be hit the hardest, with AFW closing and a lot of heads being lost in TUL and actual money out of their pocket for the guys turning into OSM's. You guys sound like you're into self mutilation, and I suggest you read up to date news papers not ones from August 2001.


When AMFA was at NWA and they went on strike, they were 100% correct on every theory of right and wrong. But in actuality AMFA got screwed by the NMB who didn't release them until NWA trained their replacements. At that point AMFA should not have gone out on strike with an inflated sense of their self worth thinking they couldn't be replaced. They should have gone to work and work by the rules that NWA setup to cover their own ass. You have to play the hand dealt to you, not think every hand is a straight flush.

When Bob and the others talk about what is right and wrong I couldn't agree more, but to bet on that isn't the best move and we all paying the price for that.

 

[Mr Red]

Ya you are correct, WE showed the company who's boss, not only did every mech give AA $15k but we will also give them a frozen pension, retiree medical, another 6 years of no meaningful raises (social security will get more raise's then us) not only are we going to lose much more then what we were going to lose in the TA we're not getting any pay raise. Think about this, the 6 year contract will probably be stretched an additional 3 years. And the sad part is the OH guys will be hit the hardest, with AFW closing and a lot of heads being lost in TUL and actual money out of their pocket for the guys turning into OSM's. You guys sound like you're into self mutilation, and I suggest you read up to date news papers not ones from August 2001.


When AMFA was at NWA and they went on strike, they were 100% correct on every theory of right and wrong. But in actuality AMFA got screwed by the NMB who didn't release them until NWA trained their replacements. At that point AMFA should not have gone out on strike with an inflated sense of their self worth thinking they couldn't be replaced. They should have gone to work and work by the rules that NWA setup to cover their own ass. You have to play the hand dealt to you, not think every hand is a straight flush.

When Bob and the others talk about what is right and wrong I couldn't agree more, but to bet on that isn't the best move and we all paying the price for that.

I don't need union representation to take me to the bottom of the industry! When a company is going from the oldest to the youngest fleet,and farming out wide body heavy Maint,it doesnt take a rocket scientist
to see you have to many bodies.I guess taking a volutary B/K was not a good decision.Its been a One way street to the bottom,and almost 10 years later,we are the bottom.

 

[Bob Owens]

It will be a lot more then just 15k when you factor in 6 years of reduced pay when the company gets their way as far as length of the agreement. More like 15k x 8.

Like I said, only if enough vote YES like you. Show me any airline employee who is working under an imposed agreement.

 

[Birdman]

Like I said, only if enough vote YES like you. Show me any airline employee who is working under an imposed agreement.

So we're all clear on this issue, if we vote yes the terms are imposed and if we vote no the terms are imposed through a possible abrogation and the parties return to negotiations?

 

[Buck]

Like I said, only if enough vote YES like you. Show me any airline employee who is working under an imposed agreement.

Bob, you continually attack the yes vote. My position is that the yes vote is fear based, maybe not all of them but a majority. The thing about fear is that it is being human.

Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

What would you tell the mechanic faced with layoff or OSM.?

 

[Bob Owens]

So we're all clear on this issue, if we vote yes the terms are imposed and if we vote no the terms are imposed through a possible abrogation and the parties return to negotiations?

If you vote Yes you accept the terms and you have no chance of changing it till 2018(if you vote on the term sheet, if you vote NO and the Judge abrogates you have no contract and you stay in sect 6 negotiations as per the RLA.

 

[iluvaa]

Bob, you continually attack the yes vote. My position is that the yes vote is fear based, maybe not all of them but a majority. The thing about fear is that it is being human.

Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

What would you tell the mechanic faced with layoff or OSM.?

I'm facing layoff /OSM why in the hell would I vote yes.

Those facing these options have no reason to vote yes

 

[Birdman]

.. if you vote NO and the Judge abrogates you have no contract and you stay in sect 6 negotiations as per the RLA.

And the compAAny can impose term sheet or whatever they wish until an agreement is reached?

 

[Mr Red]

And the compAAny can impose term sheet or whatever they wish until an agreement is reached?

I thought the judge could impose the last T/A ,which unless they come up with a new T/A was the agreement voted down.

 

[Hopeful]

I thought the judge could impose the last T/A ,which unless they come up with a new T/A was the agreement voted down.

Not actually. If the judge agrees to REJECT the current labor agreements, the COMPANY then can impose the company's offer which is on the table and which is the term sheets....He doesn't actually impose anything.

 

[Mr Red]

Not actually. If the judge agrees to REJECT the current labor agreements, the COMPANY then can impose the company's offer which is on the table and which is the term sheets....He doesn't actually impose anything.

I think its the last mutual agreement,which would still leave us at the bottom!If the ask was imposed they should really think about liquidating,I just don't think they could survive with labor relations any more POISIONED then they already are !