TWU negotiations.........what?

[TWU informer]

Actually no, the every union at US Airways in 2002 were forced to give concessions when US Airways filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy, your lame attempts to discredit the IAM has failed.

No it has not failed.
The IAM sucked before, during, and after his comment. And so does any AFL-CIO Union for that matter.

 

[700UW]

Guess you didn't see how AMFA failed at NW?

At least at US we were in bankruptcy, cant say the same about you, the TWU at AA in 2003, can you?

Why was AMFA voted out at UA?

Why hasn't AMFA been able to negotiate a new CBA at WN and just keep extending the former IBT CBA?

 

[strikeforce]

No it has not failed.
The IAM sucked before, during, and after his comment. And so does any AFL-CIO Union for that matter.

we're finally on the same page!

 

[737823]

Actually no, the every union at US Airways in 2002 were forced to give concessions when US Airways filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy, your lame attempts to discredit the IAM has failed.

ALPA was the first union on the property at US Airways to give concessions, and they did it before US filed chapter 11, the IAM M&R voted down concessions the first time in chapter 11.

And they were plenty of time in airline history that employees gave concessions way before 2002.

Try again, and maybe you should take the time to educate yourself before you try and attack the IAM, once again you are proven wrong, how does that feel?

It was the TWU at AA who came up with the "B" scale, that's concessions.

Don't let the facts get in your way Joshie, for someone who claims to be so smart and educated, your posts fail to prove that!

So the IAM didn't offer any concessions prior to abrogation?

Josh

 

[strikeforce]

Guess you didn't see how AMFA failed at NW?

At least at US we were in bankruptcy, cant say the same about you, the TWU at AA in 2003, can you?

we were in our own "bankruptcy" in 2003. the twu voluntarily destroyed our agreement in 2003. And, does it really matter whether the judge or union hands you a bag of sh%t? if the workers aren't willing to fight to keep what we got.....what's the difference? amfa failed because all A&P's went to work, gave amfa the finger, and helped nwa in destroying the profession. WE are all scabs! I stood with the amfa guys in ORD after my shift, and just about every union worker honked their horn and gave us the finger. that's real unionism! I hope everyone of you guys are real proud of what nwa did to the amfa guys......because AA is trying to do the same. And, I'm absolutely sure there's 10K scabs just waiting to see it happen all over again.

last nite one of my friends told me that a rally by janitorial workers shutdown a major shopping area in an affluent suburb of chicago to protest low wages, no benefits. these are immigrants rallying in the streets.....and, here we have somewhat educated aircraft mechanics that are just pissing our profession away by continually accepting inferior agreements, spineless to rally and stick together. everyone on this forum bares some responsibility as to the destruction of the A&P mechanic. I hope you're proud!

 

[Bob Owens]

you're right, we did lead the industry with concessions since back in 1983. To their credit some of the stuff the IAM gave up in the post 9-11 period was stuff we gave up when Reagan was in office, however that doesnt give the IAM a pass.

The IAM failed to try and get support against allowing the courts to do what they did. If you care to recall back in 2002 I was urging all unions to get behind the workers at US and tell the courts that if they abrogate any labor agreement that we shut it all down, that would have meant me walking off the job to support you because I said if they get away with it there they will do it everywhere. Your leadership failed you as ours failed us. Look at their wages from 2002 to now and look at ours. They failed us and took care of themselves, the only one that didnt was AMFA, they stood alone at NWA and yes were defeated, but so were we. We are all worse off not becuase they took a stand like Ive seen some try and spin it but because we didnt. There are several NWA guys that still frequent these boards, most have moved on and are better off than those of us who stayed where we were.

why bother with the lame arguements against AMFA, AMFA never would have come into existance and booted the IAM out of NWA, UAL and Alaska if the IAM had given the guys a little more control over the process. The mechanics at WN booted out the IBT after an industry leading contract because of their heavy handedness. How can you critize them for SWA when their guys are making $15/hr more than your guys are? The arguement that all they've done at WN is get extensions is realy weak, arent they all extensions under the RLA since they dont expire? Did they give up what you or we gave up? The topic really should be when are we going to act collectively to fix whats going on? If we have this AFL-CIO thing going when is it going to be used to help those of us who actually pay dues? Non union Delta, Fed Ex and Jet blue ( and even AMFA reprsented Alaska) get paid better than either US or AA.

 

[TWU informer]

Guess you didn't see how AMFA failed at NW?

At least at US we were in bankruptcy, cant say the same about you, the TWU at AA in 2003, can you?

Why was AMFA voted out at UA?

Why hasn't AMFA been able to negotiate a new CBA at WN and just keep extending the former IBT CBA?

It was the IAM that sucked that placed AMFA on the property at Northwest Airlines to begin with.
As well and United Airlines too. I think IAM even destroyed TWA.

Interesting to note that when AMFA was voted out at UAL, they sure as hell did not return to the failed IAM which was an option for them.

Sure AMFA is also struggling, but it is because AMT's of the industry are either too stupid or too inpatient to get all AMT's into one union before starting a battle (NWA), and to my knowledge AMFA is the only union advocating such unification. The AMFA idea has not failed until it is actually tried. The IAM, TWU, IBT idea is failing because of lack of unification. It is the Dues Collection Agencies for Politics that is failing, and they are protectionist of that dues base for politics much more than advocates for organized labor advancement.

No doubt the current handling of AirTran/SWA seniority integration matter is of concern also. SO there is no perfect Union on the planet. Doesn't change the fact that the IAM sucks.

 

[strikeforce]

It was the IAM that sucked that placed AMFA on the property at Northwest Airlines to begin with.
As well and United Airlines too. I think IAM even destroyed TWA.

Interesting to note that when AMFA was voted out at UAL, they sure as hell did not return to the failed IAM which was an option for them.

Sure AMFA is also struggling, but it is because AMT's of the industry are either too stupid or too inpatient to get all AMT's into one union before starting a battle (NWA), and to my knowledge AMFA is the only union advocating such unification. The AMFA idea has not failed until it is actually tried. The IAM, TWU, IBT idea is failing because of lack of unification. It is the Dues Collection Agencies for Politics that is failing, and they are protectionist of that dues base for politics much more than advocates for organized labor advancement.

No doubt the current handling of AirTran/SWA seniority integration matter is of concern also. SO there is no perfect Union on the planet. Doesn't change the fact that the IAM sucks.

if this is your beliefs then vote NO for more concessions, and let the TWU spend those millions in court.

remember, it's not only AA that's going through the motions of the 1113C, "what has the union really done at the table", besides tell us that they have the internet, fax machine, tables & chairs, cell phones & printers. really??

 

[737823]

Seriously, if the unions aren't protecting the interests of their members (preventing concessions) and are increasingly politicized what has changed and why is the union necessary when Delta and JetBlue make more without representation? A union should be made up of the members, for the members by the members. Just over at US Air the FA TA was voted down by 76% so clearly there is a huge disconnect between the interests of the membership and the negotiators.

Josh

 

[strikeforce]

Seriously, if the unions aren't protecting the interests of their members (preventing concessions) and are increasingly politicized what has changed and why is the union necessary when Delta and JetBlue make more without representation? A union should be made up of the members, for the members by the members. Just over at US Air the FA TA was voted down by 76% so clearly there is a huge disconnect between the interests of the membership and the negotiators.

Josh

why do you think most on this forum #### & moan?

we're trying to expose the dirt associated with airline unions. the union is a business just like AA. it's a dues collection agency first, and representative for the political machine second.......and, it's that much more pronounced with the TWU. the twu constitution is written to protect the hierarchy not the members. it will take an act of god to remove the intl president. it takes effort and work on the part of the membership to replace Jim Little or any other baffoon of the intl. you talk about a cushy job....Jim Little is king farooch, the teflon don of the union, and tony soprano.....all put into one. In other words, he's untouchable! and, his cohorts Phat Don, Gless, Drummond, Gordon are all living the dream. Concessions, what concessions??? only for the sheep. Welcome to the world of the RLA, AFL-CIO, and the airline industry. Now, how do propose we move forward?? any ideas besides TRYING to get rid of the TWU......or, TRYING to remove Jim Little.....because that's not gonna happen!

 

[AANOTOK]

I want to know where the damn updates are...about anything. <_<

 

[strikeforce]

Seriously, if the unions aren't protecting the interests of their members (preventing concessions) and are increasingly politicized what has changed and why is the union necessary when Delta and JetBlue make more without representation? A union should be made up of the members, for the members by the members. Just over at US Air the FA TA was voted down by 76% so clearly there is a huge disconnect between the interests of the membership and the negotiators.

Josh

the RLA will not allow decertification of the labor organization. unions can only be replaced with other unions or a representative (lawyer, law firm). At this point, I would love to go non-union.....too bad the RLA won't allow it. I'm almost positive that the AFL-CIO unions fought hard to include this provision in the RLA.

 

[strikeforce]

I want to know where the damn updates are...about anything. <_<

here's your update......

the union is fighting like hell to keep the dues machine flowing.
the union has internet service, fax machines, cell phones, and comfy chairs supplied by AA at Flagship U.
Jim Little and his team are flying A4 back to new york to watch Judge Lane tear up your contract.

is that enough info to make you puke????

 

[737823]

here's your update......

the union is fighting like hell to keep the dues machine flowing.
the union has internet service, fax machines, cell phones, and comfy chairs supplied by AA at Flagship U.
Jim Little and his team are flying A4 back to new york to watch Judge Lane tear up your contract.

is that enough info to make you puke????

Why should AA supply union officials confirmed travel? If its union business the union should pay for it. AFA cried foul and interference when DL offered confirmed tickets on Deltanet for FAs to protest in DC against the changes to representational election rules. Wasn't there an AA FA on YouTube calling out management for using confirmed first class space (since they care so much about the passengers their members serve)? Absolutely outrageous. So union officials smear AA management yet free ride on company aircraft?

Josh

 

[700UW]

The CBA was not abrogated in 2002, during the first bankruptcy, we were basically forced to give two rounds of concessions in this case, Bronner threatened to shut the company down in December of 2002. We voted down the first concessionary CBA in bankruptcy. We had negotiations prior to the filing, the company came in and said "Vote on this, we are filing bankruptcy" and they filed the next day on a Sunday morning.

The CBA was abrogated in February of 2005, during the second chapter 11 case.

In the 2004 filing, we gave the company a full and comprehensive CBA that met the "ask" except we wouldnt agree to the pension termination, as we knew the court would do that anyhow.

The company refused our offer as they said, "It kept too many people on the payroll, and we dont want to manage people."

The IAM with years of working with TWA kept them in business way longer than TWA would have existed.

It's quite apparent Josh you have no idea about the RLA and the negotiation process, the law was written to protect interstate commerce and not foster an easy negotiation process.

Companies use the law to drag negotiations out, no airline CBA in my 20+ years of in the industry has never taken under two years to negotiate as the law favors the company and not the employees. We took 4 1/2 years one time as the NMB wouldnt release us and the company was not being fair in negotiations.

Instead of attacking unions, why dont you educate yourself on the process.