TWU negotiations.........what?

[Mr Red]

AA's balance sheet shows $24.4 billion in assets, including the $4.6 billion in cash.

Problem is, AA's balance sheet also shows $32.3 billion in debts, liabilities and other obligations, for a negative net worth of almost $8 billion.

http://www.amrcaseinfo.com/pdflib/2071_15463.pdf

AA isn't pleading poverty, but it is certainly bankrupt.

Only on paper !Corporate America is bankrupt, so what.
You will be surprised how much AMR is worth when they are ready
for new IPO

 

[FWAAA]

Only on paper !Corporate America is bankrupt, so what.
You will be surprised how much AMR is worth when they are ready
for new IPO

I won't be surprised at all. If management devises a plan that shows large labor savings and rejects enough debt to show a billion dollar annual profit, then AMR could be worth $8 billion to $10 billion when it exits Ch 11, in line with DL and UA valuations as they emerged from bankruptcy. Companies that lose a billion dollars annually, on average, for a decade are worthless. Companies that earn a billion dollars per year are somewhat valuable.

 

[Mr Red]

I won't be surprised at all. If management devises a plan that shows large labor savings and rejects enough debt to show a billion dollar annual profit, then AMR could be worth $8 billion to $10 billion when it exits Ch 11, in line with DL and UA valuations as they emerged from bankruptcy. Companies that lose a billion dollars annually, on average, for a decade are worthless. Companies that earn a billion dollars per year are somewhat valuable.

I think they will be bought and busted- up.They are playing the game a little too late !

 

[TWU informer]

I think they will be bought and busted- up.They are playing the game a little too late !

And playing with a management team that is equal to playing blind.

 

[BigMac]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2012/04/apfa-plans-picketing-as-americ.html
Here's a chance to do something other than posting in a forum. Both line and overhaul should do the same at their stations. Maybe we can get more than a handful of people to do this....unlike the last picket. Actions speak louder than words. Bring your TWU, AMP or AMFA signs. Like to see who shows up or who is just full of hot air on here.

 

[Bob Owens]

Breaking news, line maintenance outsourcing to be the next growth trend. Now what Bob?

Flightglobal (Dallas)

Line maintenance will drive outsourcing growth trends for maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) services, a new forecast predicts.

The ICF SH&E consultancy released a forecast on 4 April at the MRO Americas conference showing that airlines will increase the outsourcing of line maintenance to 40% over the next 10 years, or 11 percentage points higher than today.

"Line maintenance will be the fastest growing segment" of outsourced MRO services, says Jonathan Berger, vice president of ICF SH&E.

Unlike outsourcing for aircraft engines, components and heavy airframe checks, airlines have been reluctant to quickly outsource line maintenance services.

Although only 29% of line maintenance work is performed by external vendors, airlines have outsourced 80% of maintenance for aircraft engines and components. About 60% of heavy airframe checks are also outsourced.

But airline managements are increasingly pressuring their maintenance divisions to transfer risk to suppliers, Berger says.

i guess you never heard of an airline called Peoples Express. They outsourced all their maintenance, they soon were called Peoples distress, the mechanics who worked on them, and the vendor (Butler) stood more to gain by keeping them on the ground where they copuld make money. None of them had a vested interest in the success of the carrier and where are they today? That was 20 years ago, all the "experts" said thaty it was the wave of the future then too.

 

[Bob Owens]

That's because they didn't. The retiree medical stayed intact for those over 50, a bridge for those from 45 to 50, and increased SK bank for the retiree medical purchase at active rates. The pension stayed intact for incumbent members with a 401k plan DC plan for new hires. Your mistake, listening to the rhetoric and not reading the proposal yourself.

Are you still trying to say that if we ratified the deal that we would not be in BK? If so there are very, very few who agree with you.

Retiree medical stayed intact for those under 50, but where would it be now? With half the guys having already lost their prefunding, (those under 50) those over 50 most certainly would have lost theirs as well. The two groups that did ratify deals are losing their retiree medical now.

The bridge, what bridge? Do you mean the scam where those of us under 50 would have not only lost the matching funds but had to fork over our contribution as well for sick bank credits that could only be used to buy coverage at the rate of 20 hours per month? What would those "credits " be worth now? Try asking the MCT guys who ratified their deal.

Are you sure you read the deal or just the pamphlet they stuffed in with the ballott.

 

[Bob Owens]

$4B in cash is for navigating restructuring and are you that shortsighted? Do you spend every dime you have in the bank for today and forget about tomorrow? No wonder you have been out played by AA. They aren't broke, they have an unsustainable cost structure and they are reorganizing. You just don't get it.

I agree they have an unsustainable cost structure, I just dont agree that we are part of the problem or the solution. Maybe now that they are shedding leases on aircraft they dont use and if they curtail a lot of waste they will, but cutting our benefits and wages, again, is not going to get them there.

I never said the judge sets terms, he rules on motions placed before him. And he will rule on the ones that shred our wages, benefits, and work rules. Plain and simple.

And the motion is to abrogate the contract, which if granted would allow the company to impose new terms as negotiations continue, under section 6. It would be as if we were non-union negotiating our first contract. Not the end of the world.

You can't just file BK anytime you want.

You're right, I cant, because I'm not a corporation but corporations can. Ask a lawyer if there is a means test for a company to file bankruptcy. I did.

Pay is driving by overall value provided. WN, UPS, and FDX AMTs have much better work rules and procedures than us. They also have way better management. Right now AA is managing to the lowest common denominator operationally. Because they can't figure out how to manage AA right, they cut pay and benefits as well as outsource work they can't figure out how to run efficiently. Write a contract that has a clause in it holding bad management accountable.

So you are saying that we should subsidize managements shortcomings by agreeing to continue to give concessions until they can figure out how to run the company? Why would the shareholders ever hold them accountable if they have convinced us to work for less?

 

[Bob Owens]

What are you talking about, there are 4000 no votes before voting begins....

Well, then again there could be the "We had to make some tough choices but we saved jobs" ruse to get enough YES votes. Lets see what happens the next few weeks, if so then the company would get what I think they wanted all along.

They would have a Non-union deal with a union on the property. They would have the best of both, they would have a deal in place that locks us at the bottom of the industry and by having a union in place they would not have to do like Delta and increase wages to keep the union out. Even if the TWU were decertified they would still have this locked in place till 2018.

 

[Bob Owens]

AA's balance sheet shows $24.4 billion in assets, including the $4.6 billion in cash.

Problem is, AA's balance sheet also shows $32.3 billion in debts, liabilities and other obligations, for a negative net worth of almost $8 billion.

http://www.amrcaseinfo.com/pdflib/2071_15463.pdf

AA isn't pleading poverty, but it is certainly bankrupt.

So AA owes $32.3 billion in total. Is it due right this instant? How much of that obligation isnt due for years down the road? AA also has $24 billion a year in revenue and the people who extended AA all that credit dont seem too concerned about AA's ability to pay.How much of that $32.3 billion is related to the deal they cut last summer to buy 500 airplanes? Wont nearly all that additional liability dissapear once AA cuts those deals where they sell the planes they just bought to a lessor?

 

[High Speed Steel]

Are you still trying to say that if we ratified the deal that we would not be in BK? If so there are very, very few who agree with you.

Retiree medical stayed intact for those under 50, but where would it be now? With half the guys having already lost their prefunding, (those under 50) those over 50 most certainly would have lost theirs as well. The two groups that did ratify deals are losing their retiree medical now.

The bridge, what bridge? Do you mean the scam where those of us under 50 would have not only lost the matching funds but had to fork over our contribution as well for sick bank credits that could only be used to buy coverage at the rate of 20 hours per month? What would those "credits " be worth now? Try asking the MCT guys who ratified their deal.

Are you sure you read the deal or just the pamphlet they stuffed in with the ballott.

So what you are saying here is you were unable to retain the retiree medical for M&R in negotiations. What about the prefunding. Are we only getting what we contributed with interest or were you able to pull a rabbit out of a hat and get the company's contributions for us too? Your no vote campaign has cost all of us more than what you are willing to accept. We would have received all monies attributed to the TA because pay has not been interrupted for any of the groups while the company has been in bankruptcy. Your quest of the "money on the table" has cost us dearly...Thanks allot Bob

 

[Bob Owens]

So what you are saying here is you were unable to retain the retiree medical for M&R in negotiations. What about the prefunding. Are we only getting what we contributed with interest or were you able to pull a rabbit out of a hat and get the company's contributions for us too? Your no vote campaign has cost all of us more than what you are willing to accept. We would have received all monies attributed to the TA because pay has not been interrupted for any of the groups while the company has been in bankruptcy. Your quest of the "money on the table" has cost us dearly...Thanks allot Bob

Hmm, obviously comprehension is not one of your strong points.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Hmm, obviously comprehension is not one of your strong points.

Funny Bob, I often have the same opinion of you. What about the companies prefunding contribution, we gonna get it too?

 

[Overspeed]

Are you still trying to say that if we ratified the deal that we would not be in BK? If so there are very, very few who agree with you.

Retiree medical stayed intact for those under 50, but where would it be now? With half the guys having already lost their prefunding, (those under 50) those over 50 most certainly would have lost theirs as well. The two groups that did ratify deals are losing their retiree medical now.

The bridge, what bridge? Do you mean the scam where those of us under 50 would have not only lost the matching funds but had to fork over our contribution as well for sick bank credits that could only be used to buy coverage at the rate of 20 hours per month? What would those "credits " be worth now? Try asking the MCT guys who ratified their deal.

Are you sure you read the deal or just the pamphlet they stuffed in with the ballott.

Nope never said that. I said that we would be working from $37 not $33 and hour on pay. So number two to number eight. Nice Bob, where's that money on the table? Oh it's going to everyone but us.

Yes, but they were given an option and they opted out. Their deal was that once ratified they had the option of staying in the old plan. Guess, what? They all took their pre-funding money. It was their option, not forced on them.

The matching funds are there if you use the plan. The money in the fund is still used for retiree medical insurance for those who stay in the plan. AA does not get to use it for other things. It's illegal to use the money for other then what it was intended. You were told this by Rosen yet you still don't tell the truth.

The plan to use sick credits is the same one in use at WN and CO the contracts you idolize.

I read the deal and all the other contracts, it is quite obvious you may have read it, you just ignored that the agreement must be taken in its totality. NOt cherry picked.

Bob, you are wrong.Man up. The TA was a better deal than you told everyone, AA went to BK even though you said it was a bluff, and yes our work can be outsourced. But you will be safe in JFK while 4,000 plus M&R walk out the door. Either way, Bob you will be fine doing your amateur hour videos with Chuck tell bedtime stories about the money that's on the table and soaking up your local 562 salary on top of your UBP. Here's to you Mister Promise You Everything Union President, your one of the Bud Light Real Men of Genius.

 

[Overspeed]

i guess you never heard of an airline called Peoples Express. They outsourced all their maintenance, they soon were called Peoples distress, the mechanics who worked on them, and the vendor (Butler) stood more to gain by keeping them on the ground where they copuld make money. None of them had a vested interest in the success of the carrier and where are they today? That was 20 years ago, all the "experts" said thaty it was the wave of the future then too.

I guess you never heard of Virgin America. They outsourced all their aircraft maintenance and only employ maintenance supervisors. Guess what People's is 1980s and Virgin is now. Never happen, wrong again Bob.