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TWU negotiations.........what?

In 1988 I jumped in feet first in persuite of a career that those in the industry and outside of aviation identified as a one of integrety,Aircraft Mechanic. My investment at the time to make myself the most qualified was $14K+ for A&P licenses plus I obtained my FCC license also to give myself the most opportunity. I recognize the good fortune you fellas have today work in the industry with a skill necessary to make a living but the qualifications still do not equate. Little did I know back then that my leap would also have a ball and chain tethered to by leg to take me down.

Your ball and chain is only yourself. Do something about. Do you really want your Geo pay and line premium at the expense of others?

Why don't you find a way to help us help you?
 
In 1988 I jumped in feet first in persuite of a career that those in the industry and outside of aviation identified as a one of integrety,Aircraft Mechanic. My investment at the time to make myself the most qualified was $14K+ for A&P licenses plus I obtained my FCC license also to give myself the most opportunity. I recognize the good fortune you fellas have to work in the industry with a skill necessary to make a living but the qualifications still do not equate. Little did I know back then that my leap would also have a ball and chain tethered to by leg to take me down.

Wow $14K investment and you would think you were a brain surgeon.
Amazing how people get so full of themselves they look down on and have to talk negatively about others to boost their own self esteem.

Your problem has nothing to do with me or others. Your problem is within yourself.

What is funny is others with your level of qualification and skill always bring hand tools, personal items, and even request that we make them special tools to make their jobs easier and less cumbersome. They do not view me as a ball and chain at that time, and even long after, they seem to have a respect for our skill. There is a difference though. Those individuals are proud of who they are, but not at the expense of someone else or by demeaning others. They don't need to degrade others to justify their own worth. I dont think they ask us to do these things to make us feel better, I think they ask us because they cannot do what we do.
 
Wow $14K investment and you would think you were a brain surgeon.
Amazing how people get so full of themselves they look down on and have to talk negatively about others to boost their own self esteem.

Your problem has nothing to do with me or others. Your problem is within yourself.

What is funny is others with your level of qualification and skill always bring hand tools, personal items, and even request that we make them special tools to make their jobs easier and less cumbersome. They do not view me as a ball and chain at that time, and even long after, they seem to have a respect for our skill. There is a difference though. Those individuals are proud of who they are, but not at the expense of someone else or by demeaning others. They don't need to degrade others to justify their own worth. I dont think they ask us to do these things to make us feel better, I think they ask us because they cannot do what we do.
I guess thats the differance about working at TUL I have an A&P but work side by side with many AMT's without one or FAC maint and I dont look down at them everyone has there skill set that they are good at. Hell I cant weld, plate a gear, program a CNC, make special tooling.
Get my point line boys
ah probable not hell you look down at A&P's too if they dont work the line

your special we are not we get it
 
I guess thats the differance about working at TUL I have an A&P but work side by side with many AMT's without one or FAC maint and I dont look down at them everyone has there skill set that they are good at. Hell I cant weld, plate a gear, program a CNC, make special tooling.
Get my point line boys
ah probable not hell you look down at A&P's too if they dont work the line

your special we are not we get it
we're not special, but we certainly view OSM's or any non-licensed A&P worker as a THREAT to our profession and livelihoods. And, you don't!
 
we're not special, but we certainly view OSM's or any non-licensed A&P worker as a THREAT to our profession and livelihoods. And, you don't!
If you think I will vote yes to become an OSM your way off, they can piss off there not getting my skill and lic. for OSM scale B)
 
No they are not as of yet but if they get there way that will change ( all licensed OSM's have moved to amts) we have no lic OSM at tul
Ok I did not know that had occurred. ( wow I made a mistake, not qualified for line maintenance now, )

Maybe there could be OSM'S in every station, but of course they would need line premium and Geo pay.
 
Ok I did not know that had occurred. ( wow I made a mistake, not qualified for line maintenance now, )

Maybe there could be OSM'S in every station, but of course they would need line premium and Geo pay.
Oh Buck you havent been keeping up the new AA/TWU job saving plan is to make most of us OSM's working the plane with limited A&P's on every dock
 
Move somewhere, it does not have to be Tulsa. Until you guys force the company to adjust your pay, it is not going to happen. When the RIF comes take advantage of it and come out of the Labor past and join the future. All I hear is how bad it is in the major cities, but I hear no solutions. Sounds like you need to give up Aviation even if you are older, the way I understand the postings from NY is there are plenty of jobs making more than AA pays.

I was born in NY, hired in NY and my family is in NY and as long as there is an AA, AA will have operations in NY. The solution is GEO pay. The reason why we need it is because enough people in lower cost areas are willing to accept much less than we need rather than risk a fight. I'm not asking for $10/hr more than you guys even though that still would not bring us up to your standard of living, just enough to keep our heads above water, hell I dont care if you guys continue to demand the exact same wage as us, as long as its where it should be, what I resent is the attitude that if its good enough for Tulsa then since they have the majority every one else should be OK with it as well. Yes I could improve my materiel standard of living by moving to Tulsa or some other low cost area but that doesnt address the problem. 787 can see it, why cant you? Non-Union Jet Blue pays $40/hr (Geo Pay), Southwest Pays over $45 and UPS pays $50, AA is the only carrier that still does as much as they do in house so who is looking at the past, you or I? Check the cost of living calculators yourself, I just used the first one that popped up on Google and it said that if you earn $50k in Tulsa you would need $88K in NY. WE had guys who were in JFK on a RIF and decided to bump down to OSM because they realized that they would be better off going home at OSM pay than staying in NY at AMT pay. Because I've always been here and never had the high life that you've enjoyed I could survive fairly well on the SWA wage of $45, but not at $12'hr less than that.

I am going to ask again, will a OSM be able to go on a Field Trip?

The company wants to use licensed OSMs anywhere they can use an AMT. So the answer is YES, they would be able to do anything any other A&P can do, they would just get paid $10/hr less.
 
It is interesting that their pay and their living standard is not bad enough for them to quit and go elsewhere for employment. Or that they to have work two jobs, yet the other job must not pay enough either. Based on that I deduce that there is nothing better in NY for them, but they want us to subsidize them a payraise out of sympathy. Or maybe now that they do not accrue anymore pension amount, then they will leave.

I have heard Bob and others talk about co-workers leaving and doing much better after AA, but yet they are still here complaining.

Logic says something is not adding up here. I tend to believe it all started as a Local Officer Election campaign issue and caught on from there. Otherwise more would be leaving by now. Just like there was a $2.55 line premium for them and they mustered up a vote no video and campaign against the raise. Must not be as bad as they claim if they would be so hard core against a $2.55 per hour raise. If I was as desperate for income as they claim, no way in hell would I have voted NO. I keep watching the Vote NO video trying to understand what happened. All I find is that not one single complaint raised in the video has been corrected, and in fact instead it has gotten them much worse off.

Well if things continue in this direction at 51 I may as well stay another four years till I can collect a pension, then when I start a new Job the pension will offset the time it takes to get back up to top pay, and I can keep my flight benefits. If Southwest put Maint in ISP I would submit an application tomorrow and leave without hesitation if they called. Would not bother to wait for the Pension.

I was seriously considering leaving the industry for good back in 2003, my wife asked me not to make a move till she finished Nursing school which she had just signed up for to start in the winter of 2004. It took longer than I had expected for her to finish, she finished in the Spring of 2009 (she was working as a nurses aid) and already earns around $40/hr but remains part time because of all the out of town travelling I do. If I quit she would go full time.

We have never asked you guys to subsidize us, we have only asked that you dont pull us down because you dont want to fight for more. We are at the bottom of the industry in pay, our guys rejected every concessionary deal that was put in front of them, nearly all were passed in Tulsa, how do you figure we are asking you to subsidize us?

Middle aged guys are reluctant to just dump a career that they have put a lot of time into, but the most frequent question I get is "Will we be offered the stand in stead and when" and its from guys my age. So a lot of guys have stuff lined up they just want to keep their foot in the door just in case things get better.

As far as the Video, I didnt make any promises, I'm one guy on a committee of 20 that legally has the authority of a witness, and lets not forget Roll Call. I said we need to say No and keep saying No till either we get what we need or we get released, I said that then and I say it still.
 
Well if things continue in this direction at 51 I may as well stay another four years till I can collect a pension, then when I start a new Job the pension will offset the time it takes to get back up to top pay, and I can keep my flight benefits. If Southwest put Maint in ISP I would submit an application tomorrow and leave without hesitation if they called. Would not bother to wait for the Pension.

We have never asked you guys to subsidize us, we have only asked that you dont pull us down because you dont want to fight for more. We are at the bottom of the industry in pay, our guys rejected every concessionary deal that was put in front of them, nearly all were passed in Tulsa, how do you figure we are asking you to subsidize us?

Middle aged guys are reluctant to just dump a career that they have put a lot of time into, but the most frequent question I get is "Will we be offered the stand in stead and when" and its from guys my age. So a lot of guys have stuff lined up they just want to keep their foot in the door just in case things get better.
Bob,
hopefully our #### sandwitch is only 4 years, so we can get rid of the twu and get the guys in ORD, JFK, LAX, their GEO pay with AMP or AMFA.
 
Remember the OSMs you speak about, after the threatened lay off will all be demoted A and Ps
AMTs with at 15 years or more experience. IF THEY STAY ON AFTER BEING REWARDED FOR YEARS OF DEDICATED SERVICE.
 
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