TWU negotiations.........what?

[iluvaa]

Does this mean they will want to impose the term sheet or are they going to just try and wipe the slate clean. And if they wipe the slate clean could they throw senority out and get rid of people they want to not just go off the list

 

[Overspeed]

Sure Owens' played his part in getting us here, as well others I watched.

But now it is ALL James C. Little and his "fight like hell" attitude along with his DNC Lawyers using his powerful AFL-CIO and Poltiical Influence that has been claimed second to none.

No more blaming Owens' for what happens from here on out.

ALL TWU Baby!

Is there a Plan? Who has a Plan?

Being sarcastic. Seriously, how many of the unions who have been through BK - ALPA, CWA, AMFA, IAM, TWU, etc... - and have been successful in significantly reducing the terms of the initial "ask"? None. I expect Little and the DNC lawyers will not be anymore effective than they were.

And no more blaming Bob once we get in court. The recommendation to vote no by the TWU Presidents Ruiz, Owens, and Pike seems to be not well thought out now.

The plan? Stock up on vaseline. BOHICA

 

[Overspeed]

Does this mean they will want to impose the term sheet or are they going to just try and wipe the slate clean. And if they wipe the slate clean could they throw senority out and get rid of people they want to not just go off the list

The company can only make motions based on the term sheet unless they can show that the situation has gotten worse. Once the judge rules on the term sheet, we can still negotiate but the damage will have already been done. It's harder to get back what you have already given up or had taken away.

 

[TWU informer]

Being sarcastic. Seriously, how many of the unions who have been through BK - ALPA, CWA, AMFA, IAM, TWU, etc... - and have been successful in significantly reducing the terms of the initial "ask"? None. I expect Little and the DNC lawyers will not be anymore effective than they were.

And no more blaming Bob once we get in court. The recommendation to vote no by the TWU Presidents Ruiz, Owens, and Pike seems to be not well thought out now.

The plan? Stock up on vaseline. BOHICA

All of those Unions screwed in BK, and where may I ask is the powerful AFL-CIO getting those laws changed?
Answer. non exisistant. The idea that the AFL-CIO strategy protects workers is a complete lie and a farce.
And anyone still buying into this idea is nothing more than a cultist without the ability to see the facts in front of their nose.

What about the AFL-CIO finally taking a stand and stop depending on laws and law makers to get things done?
What about using the member instead of the member's paycheck and money?

Will not happen because the AFL-CIO/Union leaders are living high on the hog, uneffected by the assault on the middle class. They will never risk their plush life style for the good of organized labor. They are not leaders and never were, they are instead cowardice and weak moochers.

 

[Buck]

Do the new bankruptcy rules have anything to do with how the judge reviews the 1113 process?

 

[Mr Red]

The company can only make motions based on the term sheet unless they can show that the situation has gotten worse. Once the judge rules on the term sheet, we can still negotiate but the damage will have already been done. It's harder to get back what you have already given up or had taken away.

AA has more cash on hand now than when they filed.The two TWU groups that voted in their CBA don't seem to be fairing any better than us NO voters,They're included in the rejection filing.

 

[FWAAA]

Do the new bankruptcy rules have anything to do with how the judge reviews the 1113 process?

No, the 2005 bankruptcy law changes didn't change the 1113 process.

 

[FWAAA]

AA has more cash on hand now than when they filed.The two TWU groups that voted in their CBA don't seem to be fairing any better than us NO voters,They're included in the rejection filing.

Things may have changed, but initially, AA was seeking to kill the pension and the retiree medical from all groups, including those who ratified their contract. IIRC, AA was not seeking any additional paycuts or workrule changes from those two workgroups. In that way, they may be doing slightly better than the no-voters.

 

[Mr Red]

Things may have changed, but initially, AA was seeking to kill the pension and the retiree medical from all groups, including those who ratified their contract. IIRC, AA was not seeking any additional paycuts or workrule changes from those two workgroups. In that way, they may be doing slightly better than the no-voters.

American admitted that its pilot contract proposals would not have helped keep the carrier out of bankruptcy.

Read more here: http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/#storylink=cpy

 

[TWU informer]

American admitted that its pilot contract proposals would not have helped keep the carrier out of bankruptcy.

Read more here: http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/#storylink=cpy

Of course that is what they are going to say. Because the Pilots along with others will present those past proposals to the court as evidence that this filing is a strategic plan not a required plan. It is a strategic plan to use the court system to rape the employees and force a reduction in cost that could not be obtained via lies and manipulations.

If you were running an airline, or stock holder in the corporation and your company negotiators were putting forth proposals over a five year period that would have caused the company to fail, you would fire those members of management? Or hide them and claim they are underpaid and is a talent pool that must be kept on the property?

The truth is this filing is a new strategy and was not a required strategy. This is why the filing occured with $4 Billion in cash. Are you really that gullible to management rhetoric?

 

[Overspeed]

Of course that is what they are going to say. Because the Pilots along with others will present those past proposals to the court as evidence that this filing is a strategic plan not a required plan. It is a strategic plan to use the court system to rape the employees and force a reduction in cost that could not be obtained via lies and manipulations.

If you were running an airline, or stock holder in the corporation and your company negotiators were putting forth proposals over a five year period that would have caused the company to fail, you would fire those members of management? Or hide them and claim they are underpaid and is a talent pool that must be kept on the property?

The truth is this filing is a new strategy and was not a required strategy. This is why the filing occured with $4 Billion in cash. Are you really that gullible to management rhetoric?

Keep in mind, everything in the Company's filing can be summed up like this, "Union bad, Management good." The Company has to paint themselves as trying everything and that radical restructuring to the CBAs is necessary for their survival. The filing should not be taken as the final word and 100% factual. Now the Unions must paint the opposite picture with their facts.

AA filed BK with so much cash so they could maintain more control while navigating Chap 11. No DIP financing gives them more exclusivity in assembling their plan. You are correct that this was not required however it may have been inevitable given AA's squandering the unprecedented relief they were given in 2003 and that they did not change they way they ran their business.

 

[Bob Owens]

Only until we out number them in the streets instead of playing the game of who has the most money against the rich.

No arguement from me, labor has to realize that we are just a guest in the halls of power, not equal partners in the process, the eleite are only willing to address our needs if their is a real threat of disruption.

 

[Bob Owens]

Only until we out number them in the streets instead of playing the game of who has the most money against the rich.

No arguement from me, labor has to realize that we are just a guest in the halls of power, not equal partners in the process, the eleite are only willing to address our needs if their is a real threat of disruption.

 

[Bob Owens]

Being sarcastic. Seriously, how many of the unions who have been through BK - ALPA, CWA, AMFA, IAM, TWU, etc... - and have been successful in significantly reducing the terms of the initial "ask"? None. I expect Little and the DNC lawyers will not be anymore effective than they were.

And no more blaming Bob once we get in court. The recommendation to vote no by the TWU Presidents Ruiz, Owens, and Pike seems to be not well thought out now.

The plan? Stock up on vaseline. BOHICA

rewind to 2002 and you will see that I had begged the leaders of these(AFL-CIO affiliated Unions) to block abrogation, saying that if one carrier gets to use it the rest would follow. Not only was I ignored but when the TWU threw me out of office they quoted letters I'd written to TWU leaders saying that if the Judge abrogates any labor agreement ALL afl unions should walk off the job in a political protest. The TWU cited this as conduct unbecoming because they considered such an act illegal and that I was advocating putting the organization at risk.

Once again, tell those that still have not lost their prefunding that voting NO was a mistake, some guys are due over $50k.

 

[Kev3188]

Being sarcastic. Seriously, how many of the unions who have been through BK - ALPA, CWA, AMFA, IAM, TWU, etc... - and have been successful in significantly reducing the terms of the initial "ask"?

Our "ask" at NW wasn't reduced, but I can guarantee you the initial proposal was a whole lot worse than what the end result was. Each workgroup had a number to meet, but how they got to it was largely up to them. That's where you guys are at now. For example, freezing the pension gives some serious wiggle room to you guys to retain other items, and the membership needs to make sure that "Team Twu" gets that message loud and clear in their internet-equipped rooms...