TWU negotiations.........what?

[AA89]

Jon McNaughton, a controversial artist who often mixes religion and politics in his work, has released a new painting.

In ‘One Nation Under Socialism’ President Obama holds the U.S. Constitution as it burns

I think you are looking for THE WATER COOLER.
But if you have a picture of Horton burning a union contract it might be a hit on this forum.

 

[limit]

Not trying to squirm out of anything just disputing your claims of what you are saying I meant. So who are you and why won't you reveal yourself? Who is the one squirming, me, when I already said I stand behind what I wrote, or you the guy making accusations from behind an alias?

So what is it Bob?
Can anyone answer or question what you write or this can be only done if the responder uses his real name?
What kind of bullshit is this?
The only name anyone can use to answer or question , on any board is the name by which the forum participant posted.
Would you like to be addressed as other than Bob Owens?
This is pretty lame dude.

You can stand behind what you have said all you want,that alone does not give your writings added authority,it does not make them right.

You have been standing behind your ideas and plans.
Unfortunately your plans did not work and your assumptions have been proven wrong time and again.
No one needs to post here what they are,there is probably a few thousands posts from you where you made predictions
and explained the path you thought was correct time and again.
I could not possibly blame you or anyone else for expressing their opinion at any given time.
This is what this board is all about.
What should be of concern is when people can not see the error in their assumptions and plans even when they are hit in the face with the results.
Fighting the right fight is one thing,living in denial is another.

 

[Bob Owens]

So what is it Bob?
Can anyone answer or question what you write or this can be only done if the responder uses his real name?
What kind of bullshit is this?
The only name anyone can use to answer or question , on any board is the name by which the forum participant posted.
Would you like to be addressed as other than Bob Owens?
This is pretty lame dude.

You can stand behind what you have said all you want,that alone does not give your writings added authority,it does not make them right.

You have been standing behind your ideas and plans.
Unfortunately your plans did not work and your assumptions have been proven wrong time and again.
No one needs to post here what they are,there is probably a few thousands posts from you where you made predictions
and explained the path you thought was correct time and again.
I could not possibly blame you or anyone else for expressing their opinion at any given time.
This is what this board is all about.
What should be of concern is when people can not see the error in their assumptions and plans even when they are hit in the face with the results.
Fighting the right fight is one thing,living in denial is another.

Clearly Overspeed is not looking for answers or merely expressing an opinion, he is spinning and slandering, he obviously has put a lot of time into it. Its also pretty obvious that Overspeed is someone who has more at stake keeping membership numbers high instead of wages. Keeping anonominity is fine but to call out others from behind an alias is disengenous. Overspeed portrays himself as someone who is on the floor working and living under the terms of this contract, I doubt that, as I've never come across anyone who says what he says who was not on the International dole or management, and I've run into many company sucks over the years, and just as he has the right to do what he does I have the right to call him out and question his motives and who he is.

I've never claimed that my opinions carry any more weight than anyone elses, even yours.

 

[Buck]

I dont believe your effort is having the intended result you are looking for Overspeed, it is more like overkill.

What really irks me is that I bet you are being paid out of my paycheck to do this and therefore I reject it.

All that happens is I feel like defending Bob now because I too believe the International is behind this activity.
And I dislike the International so much I turn against whatever they do, your postings are not educational, they are more hate related to me. Most of us have been reading Bob's post for years. I while I do not agree with them all, I sure as hell don't need you trying to twist with your own opinions what he means by what he says.

If you have your opinions about issues, then post them here. If you are here to turn this into TV type Attack ads, most will tune you out.

I did not even finish reading the first book/post you laid out here. And the rest I have skipped over.

Basically I know what your point is but overkill by overspeed is a turn off.

This is a forum is for opinions and ideas, not for professional attack ads like you see in politics.
Take your dirt machine and go after one of your evil Republicans and leave the debating membership to themselves. You are doing more harm that good here.

One more, in that format and I will push ignore on everything you post.

This is a forum is for opinions and ideas, not for professional attack ads

You are 100% correct.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

The TWU minions on this board are and allways have been clueless. You refute everything Owens puts on this board. So instead you support a union which has done absolutely nothing but deliver concessionary contracts for at least the past 20 years. The twu sheep still believe in the twu all the while the people that represent us do not bear the same burden its members do. That in itself is reason enough to decertify this company union. So either you agree with the company or you agree with this worthless union. I am tired of giving back and I am tired of subsidizing managements failures. It seems the majority is on Owens side and feel the same way as he does or are at least fed up with the twu and the company spin of being broke. You can bash Bob all you want but at least he picked a direction to go and stayed on the same path. What is your direction "vote yes" again agree to the term sheet. Where are your followers and the people who are behind you in your involvement for change ???? I dont see them here or maybe you are just the minority who is willing to give more rather than put up a fight even if the outcome is the same....

 

[strikeforce]

So what is it Bob?
Can anyone answer or question what you write or this can be only done if the responder uses his real name?
What kind of bullshit is this?
The only name anyone can use to answer or question , on any board is the name by which the forum participant posted.
Would you like to be addressed as other than Bob Owens?
This is pretty lame dude.

You can stand behind what you have said all you want,that alone does not give your writings added authority,it does not make them right.

You have been standing behind your ideas and plans.
Unfortunately your plans did not work and your assumptions have been proven wrong time and again.
No one needs to post here what they are,there is probably a few thousands posts from you where you made predictions
and explained the path you thought was correct time and again.
I could not possibly blame you or anyone else for expressing their opinion at any given time.
This is what this board is all about.
What should be of concern is when people can not see the error in their assumptions and plans even when they are hit in the face with the results.
Fighting the right fight is one thing,living in denial is another.

Bob Owens has a bullseye on his back just like any other local president. His views will be scrutinized, spun, turned, manipulated and deamonized whether he's on this forum or walking around at the field. I believe members of this union have a right to criticize his views openly at the field or in a union hall. Overspeed could be Tom Horton for all we know, and he doesn't have that same right, in my opinion.
Bob is giving his opinions on this forum just like anybody else, but because he's President of Local 562 his views carry more weight, and are viewed as authority. I'll give Bob lots of credit to stick his neck out and provide us all this information knowing full well he's gonna get hammered from all sides. I think he enjoys the discussions, and it may or may not sway voters opinions, but he certainly provides members with much more information than YOU would get at a membership meeting or from the INTL. That's for damn sure. I also like the fact that Bob has the nads to call out the INTL. That carries lots of weight in my book, and I thank him for that.

 

[strikeforce]

The TWU minions on this board are and allways have been clueless. You refute everything Owens puts on this board. So instead you support a union which has done absolutely nothing but deliver concessionary contracts for at least the past 20 years. The twu sheep still believe in the twu all the while the people that represent us do not bear the same burden its members do. That in itself is reason enough to decertify this company union. So either you agree with the company or you agree with this worthless union. I am tired of giving back and I am tired of subsidizing managements failures. It seems the majority is on Owens side and feel the same way as he does or are at least fed up with the twu and the company spin of being broke. You can bash Bob all you want but at least he picked a direction to go and stayed on the same path. What is your direction "vote yes" again agree to the term sheet. Where are your followers and the people who are behind you in your involvement for change ???? I dont see them here or maybe you are just the minority who is willing to give more rather than put up a fight even if the outcome is the same....

Kudos for telling it like it is!

I certainly hope the next raping will finally open the eyes of the sheep to decertify the TWU.

 

[enough already]

Kudos for telling it like it is!

I certainly hope the next raping will finally open the eyes of the sheep to decertify the TWU.

Nah, it's like battered wife syndrome; deny, deny, and come back for more.

 

[FWAAA]

The TWU minions on this board are and allways have been clueless. You refute everything Owens puts on this board. So instead you support a union which has done absolutely nothing but deliver concessionary contracts for at least the past 20 years. The twu sheep still believe in the twu all the while the people that represent us do not bear the same burden its members do. That in itself is reason enough to decertify this company union. So either you agree with the company or you agree with this worthless union. I am tired of giving back and I am tired of subsidizing managements failures. It seems the majority is on Owens side and feel the same way as he does or are at least fed up with the twu and the company spin of being broke. You can bash Bob all you want but at least he picked a direction to go and stayed on the same path. What is your direction "vote yes" again agree to the term sheet. Where are your followers and the people who are behind you in your involvement for change ???? I dont see them here or maybe you are just the minority who is willing to give more rather than put up a fight even if the outcome is the same....

I see you're new here, so I'm guessing that you haven't read all that many posts on this website over the past nine and a half years. I refute a lot of what Owens posts here and I'm no "TWU minion." Too much of what Owens posts here is complete ignorant nonsense. Like last year when he insisted that UA spent 13% of their total expenditures in 2007 just on outsourced maintenance. 13% of UA's 2007 expenses would have been $2.5 billion. Eventually, he emailed me a poorly designed .pdf that UA gave its employees that combined outsourced maintenance with some other categories of spending that, if misread by someone too eager to believe that outsourcing was more expensive, could be interpreted to say that UA's second third largest expense in 2007 (after fuel and wages) was outsourced maintenance expense. In an effort to get Owens to focus on facts, I point out his shortcomings. And I'll keep doing it until AA's mechanics figure out how to persuasively negotiate for higher pay (something the worthless union is not very good at).

As a union member, I can't understand why the AA mechanics have been represented by the NYC bus drivers' union for as long as they have. Basically, a dues collection agency without much to show for it. Probably the most ineffective airline employee union there is.

TWU Informer is no TWU minion. He tried to replace the TWU with AMFA but didn't get enough cards signed to overcome the inflated employee lists submitted by AA. He's right when he says the failed TA has cost him (and thousands of others) more than $14,000 in wages since it was defeated.

 

[strikeforce]

I see you're new here, so I'm guessing that you haven't read all that many posts on this website over the past nine and a half years. I refute a lot of what Owens posts here and I'm no "TWU minion." Too much of what Owens posts here is complete ignorant nonsense. Like last year when he insisted that UA spent 13% of their total expenditures in 2007 just on outsourced maintenance. 13% of UA's 2007 expenses would have been $2.5 billion. Eventually, he emailed me a poorly designed .pdf that UA gave its employees that combined outsourced maintenance with some other categories of spending that, if misread by someone too eager to believe that outsourcing was more expensive, could be interpreted to say that UA's second third largest expense in 2007 (after fuel and wages) was outsourced maintenance expense. In an effort to get Owens to focus on facts, I point out his shortcomings. And I'll keep doing it until AA's mechanics figure out how to persuasively negotiate for higher pay (something the worthless union is not very good at).

As a union member, I can't understand why the AA mechanics have been represented by the NYC bus drivers' union for as long as they have. Basically, a dues collection agency without much to show for it. Probably the most ineffective airline employee union there is.

TWU Informer is no TWU minion. He tried to replace the TWU with AMFA but didn't get enough cards signed to overcome the inflated employee lists submitted by AA. He's right when he says the failed TA has cost him (and thousands of others) more than $14,000 in wages since it was defeated.

Yes, Informer and others would have an additional $14K in the bank, but you're assuming AA didn't stack the deck when they agreed to the T/A. I'm assuming AA pretty much knew the T/A wouldn't pass when they split the membership with retiree medical, and split OH and Line by offering Line structural raises and OH a bonus. And, to top it off AA knew Tulsa wouldn't budge off the 24/7. Not only did 50%+ know the T/A wouldn't pass, but AA knew it!

I'm in the minority of trying to replace the TWU. Nobody needs to convince me that the TWU is wothless. My empty pocketbook & bank account, speaks volumes!

 

[TWU informer]

Kudos for telling it like it is!

I certainly hope the next raping will finally open the eyes of the sheep to decertify the TWU.

I dislike the TWU probably more than anyone on this board.
But when you look company wide, and industry wide, removing the TWU is not going to fix the real problem.

The real problem is organized labor as a whole and across the board is sitting on their duffs with a reliance on laws and law makers for their survival and advancement.

FAILURE is all that has come from this strategy.

Want to stop the decimation? Organize all Industry Workers into a movement to shut down transportation of commerce for about 3 days.

Anything less is just feel good whimpering and equates to nothing more than a band-aid on wound bleeding bad enough to require a Tourni.quet

 

[Buck]

Yes, Informer and others would have an additional $14K in the bank, but you're assuming AA didn't stack the deck when they agreed to the T/A. I'm assuming AA pretty much knew the T/A wouldn't pass when they split the membership with retiree medical, and split OH and Line by offering Line structural raises and OH a bonus. And, to top it off AA knew Tulsa wouldn't budge off the 24/7. Not only did 50%+ know the T/A wouldn't pass, but AA knew it!

I'm in the minority of trying to replace the TWU. Nobody needs to convince me that the TWU is wothless. My empty pocketbook & bank account, speaks volumes!

Don't forget that the deck was stacked during the AMFA drive.

 

[Overspeed]

Clearly Overspeed is not looking for answers or merely expressing an opinion, he is spinning and slandering, he obviously has put a lot of time into it. Its also pretty obvious that Overspeed is someone who has more at stake keeping membership numbers high instead of wages. Keeping anonominity is fine but to call out others from behind an alias is disengenous. Overspeed portrays himself as someone who is on the floor working and living under the terms of this contract, I doubt that, as I've never come across anyone who says what he says who was not on the International dole or management, and I've run into many company sucks over the years, and just as he has the right to do what he does I have the right to call him out and question his motives and who he is.

I've never claimed that my opinions carry any more weight than anyone elses, even yours.

Oh Bob. Calm down. No one is slandering anyone. I am only holding you up to a mirror and you don't like it. That's okay, the first step is admitting you were wrong. You can do it. Come on.

You are on the dole Bob. Do you not accept wages paid by AA for all your UBP? In your earlier comments when you were on the outside you called it hush money. I suppose you are backing the Company on dropping the Baker letter right?

Bob I do work on the floor but no I won't reveal myself because people like you love to attack the person and not the facts. The facts are simply that, the facts. The facts are that you said there was more money on the table, that BK was a threat, and that our jobs could not be outsourced because their is a mechanic shortage. All of those you said in one form or another in fact now you are admitting that we may lose and now you want to shutter AA for good through a job action, saying, don't worry, we will be back at top pay by 2018. Awesome, simply awesome.

Not saying we have to accept MRO wages at all. Saying the concept of "screw you, pay me" isn't working. Your strategy of playing tough guy isn't taking us on a destructive path.

 

[Overspeed]

Bob on pensions

August 12, 2007
“The pension threat is a scam,” and, “If the union were to come back with an "intact" pension and nothing else they would be agreeing to another big paycut.”

Losing our pension is a “scam”? Only getting an intact pension would be a “paycut”? So now it looks like we will have a frozen pension, strong possibility of line and overhaul work outsourced, and still little to no pay raise. Bob said it was a threat? Looks like he was WRONG.

May 18, 2008
“The airlines that went through bankruptcy switched to 401K matches, so they may not be getting promised as much but since the money is there they will likely get what they are promised.”

In 2007, he said losing the pension was a “scam” and now he concedes that if you may lose the pension in BK but at least you get a 401(k) match. So is losing the pension a “scam”?

May 6, 2011
“So why should we be afraid of BK? All we have is a promise, a promise like the Supplimental Medical that the company collected and pocketed after 20 years. Have you ever met anyone who collected from that? You'd have a better chance coming across a LOTTO winner than an active employee who got a payout from the Supplimental Medical. While our pension, which is legally and woefully underfunded thanks to our own lobbying efforts, is still a promise that the company uses to drive down wages in the here and now our peers have been getting direct contributions to their 401K plans. Real money that the company cant touch once its there. Hell all BK could do is take away our pension and give us $6.15 an hour more in the here and now!”
“The company would not realize savings from maint in BK, our peers earn less and our pension costs the company less in the here and now than the DC plans.”

“So why should we be afraid of BK?” Even Bob says, “Hell all BK could do is take away our pension.” Oh! Is that all?!?! Bob even says we are getting a $6.15 and hour raise! Still says the pension is cheap even though the other airlines froze or terminated them in BK. Bob is still WRONG.

November 6, 2011
“In reality they arent going after the DB because its better for the long term health of the company , they are going after it for the short term benefit of their pockets.”

So we went from losing the pension was a scam, to it’s the worst that could happen, and now they aren’t going after the pension. Bob, what is it?

 

[AA89]

I see you're new here, so I'm guessing that you haven't read all that many posts on this website over the past nine and a half years. I refute a lot of what Owens posts here and I'm no "TWU minion." Too much of what Owens posts here is complete ignorant nonsense. Like last year when he insisted that UA spent 13% of their total expenditures in 2007 just on outsourced maintenance. 13% of UA's 2007 expenses would have been $2.5 billion. Eventually, he emailed me a poorly designed .pdf that UA gave its employees that combined outsourced maintenance with some other categories of spending that, if misread by someone too eager to believe that outsourcing was more expensive, could be interpreted to say that UA's second third largest expense in 2007 (after fuel and wages) was outsourced maintenance expense. In an effort to get Owens to focus on facts, I point out his shortcomings. And I'll keep doing it until AA's mechanics figure out how to persuasively negotiate for higher pay (something the worthless union is not very good at).

As a union member, I can't understand why the AA mechanics have been represented by the NYC bus drivers' union for as long as they have. Basically, a dues collection agency without much to show for it. Probably the most ineffective airline employee union there is.

TWU Informer is no TWU minion. He tried to replace the TWU with AMFA but didn't get enough cards signed to overcome the inflated employee lists submitted by AA. He's right when he says the failed TA has cost him (and thousands of others) more than $14,000 in wages since it was defeated.

Well said. "Persuasively negotiate for higher pay" instead of "Restore and more because we want it" all the while ignoring what the other airlines looked like after BK.
We all want as much as we can get while we can get it but we differ on what that is and how best to get it. The RLA and BK has taken the power away from the unions at ALL of the airlines and failure to recognize that has led us to where we are.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. In our case we ignored the history of the other BK airlines and so here we are.
I have signed AMFA/AMP cards at every drive but I can't imagine how it would have helped. It has been follow the leader through BK and overhaul has been a casualty in all. If anyone still can't see that the company insists on outsourcing a large percentage of OH to fund line maintenance then take off the blinders. Line maintenance will be next and I don't care what union it is thanks to the RLA and the BK laws. But most of us will be out of the industry by then I'm sure.