TWU negotiations.........what?

[787nightmare]

Jon McNaughton, a controversial artist who often mixes religion and politics in his work, has released a new painting.

In ‘One Nation Under Socialism’ President Obama holds the U.S. Constitution as it burns

Ain't that the damned truth....
Course, he's not the first.

 

[Tex-Mech]

We must be real close to a really bad T/A for the anti Bob rhetoric to ramp up as much as it has. For the record, I will not be voting yes to vote myself out of a job.

 

[Bob Owens]

We have a TA on wages? They have all the airframes outsourced? Really? To whom? You obviously have information that I dont. Tell us who are they?

"They" is UA and CO.

I guess somebody is posting under your name because look back in the post like I did. I cut and paste all this from your posts. Call it spin but you said those words. I expected you would refuse accountability. Your never wrong.

I proved my point, your in over your head.

AA is outsourcing to UA and CO?

I dont remember ever speaking to someone named Overspeed so are you cliaming I wrote something or said something? Give us the post number and we can look up what you are claiming.

 

[Overspeed]

AA is outsourcing to UA and CO?

I dont remember ever speaking to someone named Overspeed so are you cliaming I wrote something or said something? Give us the post number and we can look up what you are claiming.

No AA is not outsourcing to UA/CO. You stated several times that we should wait for UA and CO to settle. UA and CO did and they also have significant outsourcing beyond what AA has currently.

Bob, you said all that stuff and more on this blog. You know you did but now are trying to squirm out of it.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob on BK

May 20, 2008
“…but are the shareholders willing to allow management to lose all their money instead of coming to a fair agreement with the employees whose sacrifice saved them from watching their shares liquidated…”

Bob is certain that bankruptcy will never happen because the shareholders won’t let management do that. WRONG.

December 10, 2008
“…I think we've all had enough of sacrificing for plans that have no benifit for us. If $24 billion a year isnt enough revenue and they cant make a go of it without our charity then let them go C-11 or 7.”

Now says that if the Company can’t get their act together, then let AA go Chapter 11 or 7.

March 7, 2009
“Its like the guy crying poverty who pulls into his driveway with a brand new car. AA has ordered billions worth of new airplanes but they are cryaing poverty to their workers.”

Bob is certain that AA is lying. In his opinion potential BK companies don’t reinvest in themselves. He hasn’t paid attention to the many other BK airlines that have since bought new aircraft and equipment. It happens in the real world but not Bob’s world.

June 20, 2009
“While the ATD keeps talking BK we dont hear any such talk from the company, instead we hear about new airplane orders. A contract in place lowers the risks for creditors and AA can get better rates. Billions will be borrowed to buy new airplanes, a 1% drop in the Intrest rate on $1 billion is $10 million saved. Depending on how much and how long the loan is for they could save hundreds of millions by having contracts in place.”

Does not believe the factual information or advice of those “in-the-know” and alludes to BK being nothing but a manipulation tactic from the International.

July 1, 2009
“Thats bull. First of all by lowering our demands we screwed ourselves if the company does go BK and whether of not they go BK has nothing to do woth us, the pilots may have some effect due to their big pensions but us, no way”
“Right now we are already on the lower end of the scale for majors. By 2011 we will likely be number 5 or 6 in pay with an unprecidented gap between us and the top. By 2011 we will lag SWA, the number two in pay for aircraft mechanics.”

States AA going to BK is “bull” and that the committee is lowering their demands giving in to fear. As we all know, BK was not “bull” Bob but what you said was bull.

July 26, 2009
“One thing thats guaranteed is that they would have a new crisis in place to justify not paying us.”

Bob again raises his belief, not based in fact, is that BK is a manufactured crisis.

October 9, 2009
“If for some reason the company did reject our concessionary offer I would be in favor of being released, then real negotiations could begin. Do you really think that Citibank and all those others who just dumped billions into AA are going to let AA go BK through a strike? AA will have to get serious about a deal once the clock starts ticking, their creditors will demand it. AA would be stupid to try and shoot for bottom pay, unlike 2005 there isnt a supply of mechanics out there and there isnt a surpluss of seats out there either.”

Again states that BK is not going to happen because Citibank and other investors won’t let it happen. WRONG

November 5, 2009
“I dont know how to say this any clearer than this ' I DO NOT CARE ABOUT AA'S FINANCIAL PROBLEMS ANYMORE, I WANT MY MONEY OR I WOULD RATHER SEE THEM GO AWAY SO THOSE CARRIERS THAT KNOW HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS AND PAY THEIR WORKERS WILL HAVE ROOM TO EXPAND AND HIRE US.”

Owens says he would, “…rather see them (AA) go away…,” in BK. Well “they” won’t but many union members will.

February 28, 2010
“The point is they arent the only ones who can make threats. We need to recognize that.”

Bob responds to concerns about BK, losing the pension, and outsourcing. Says the Company is making threats.

December 2, 2010
“Bankruptcy? What would they have to gain by it that they havent already taken? The Pension? They save money with the DBP at the moment.”

Bob discounting the BK possibility again. Every other airline has frozen or terminated the pension to reduce their future financial liability but Bob says the DB plan “saves” money. NOT ENTIRELY TRUE AGAIN. Twist and spin, let’s everybody do the Owens dance!

April 23, 2011
“While I would not be suprised if some in the International tried to play up the inevitable doom and gloom show (some still love to throw out the specter of "BK") I'm not too concerned with anything they decide to put in their little slide show. The group of guys that are in there now have ignored them in the past and will do so again.”

Bob dismisses the talk of BK as fear tactic again. Says he isn’t concerned about, “…their little slide show.” I am so glad Bob is paying attention, but only to HIS facts.

May 6, 2011
“So why should we be afraid of BK? All we have is a promise, a promise like the Supplimental Medical that the company collected and pocketed after 20 years. Have you ever met anyone who collected from that? You'd have a better chance coming across a LOTTO winner than an active employee who got a payout from the Supplimental Medical. While our pension, which is legally and woefully underfunded thanks to our own lobbying efforts, is still a promise that the company uses to drive down wages in the here and now our peers have been getting direct contributions to their 401K plans. Real money that the company cant touch once its there. Hell all BK could do is take away our pension and give us $6.15 an hour more in the here and now!”
“So the answer is not only are we worse off than our peers at other carriers that have never filed BK but we are worse off than nearly all those that have.”
“Even if as the company threatened we have to come back in 6 months and renegotiate it under BK.”
“The company would not realize savings from maint in BK, our peers earn less and our pension costs the company less in the here and now than the DC plans.”
“We have to go for the money, threats or no threats.”

Earlier Bob said BK was a fear tactic, now he acknowledges it but says its not that bad. “Hell all BK could do is take away our pensions and give us $6.15 an hour more…,” he says. Really? Has that happened in BK? Has anyone gotten a raise in BK? NO. But then he ends with it’s just a threat anyway. He can’t make up his mind.

August 31, 2011
“Well the company has been threatening to file BK since 2003. I would think they would have done so prior to amassing $5 billion in cash and paying off half their debt. Normally you build up debt and burn cash before filing BK.”

“Normally?” Bob is now an expert on BKs? Okay.

September 14, 2011
“I think the company has told the unions that if any of them asks for and gets a release then they will file. To me, after eight years of living under the threat I say lets go. Why give them another concessionary deal only to find them using the same threat in another five years?”
“So let us set the rate that the bankrupt carriers can follow as their first negotiated agreement after Bankruptcy based on our historical position between the Freighters like UPS and the LCCs like WN and JB, any disadvantage that AA has would be short lived. Our brothers and Sisters at UAL already rejected their deal, lets give them some sort of a challenge as far as something to top. Lets see which union can come out on top, the TWU, the IBT(UAL) or the IAM(USAIR).”

Okay now what is it? BK is a threat or BS? He said on June 20, 2009 that the only person that has mentioned BK was the ATD. Now he says he has been hearing it for eight years. Bob wanted to set the standard for airlines negotiating their first contract out of BK. Now we will be following their (UA, NW, and US) example of what you get in BK and following them. I thought Bob was against pattern bargaining? Oh, my mistake, he is apparently in favor of pattern BK.

October 1, 2011
“I think BK is a scam.”
“What I am an advocate of is not panicing every time the company throws it out there. I feel we were wrong to accept concessions in 2003 and should have held our ground and that by doing what we did we doomed in house OH at all AAs competitors.”
“We have no control over BK and we are not a big enough component in the equation where what we do would have any influence over that decision anyway. In other words they dont stand to gain much in BK from us.”

“I think BK is a scam.” Yes Bob, it’s a scam and AA doesn’t, “…stand to gain much from us.” How come in every other airline BK maintenance did suffer massive cuts in every area? You are in denial Bob.

October 16, 2011
“Now comes the BK scare tactics, no doubt the International will barrage the Presidents Council this week with doom and gloom about BK, the fact is that we have no control over that anyway and the $ 190 million a year we were asking for isn't enough to make a trip to BK worth it.”
“Maybe, if they do file, (which I don't think they will) we will be the ones to do it, then again if they do file the pilots will be the ones with the most to lose so we could ride on their coat tails, but no real union would tolerate allowing a Judge to order their members to work under terms they did not negotiate and were set with only the companies interests in mind. “

Yes that’s right. “Now comes the BK scare tactics…,” and, “…the $190 million a year we were asking for isn’t enough to make a trip to BK worth it.” Bob you called it, BK won’t be happening. “Maybe, if they do file, (which I don’t think they will)…,” called it again. And the statement, “…no real union would tolerate allowing a Judge to order their members to work under terms they did not negotiate…,” is classic. Bob what are you planning on?

October 27, 2011
“Look around, wake up people, AA has plenty of money for everything, except the employees.”

“Wake up people, AA has plenty of money…,” which shows you that Bob doesn’t understand BK Chapter 11. You can file BK and restructure your debts and other financial obligations and have money. The goal was to make the business work and pay off the secured creditors for the AMR BOD, not pay the employees and other unsecured creditors. Wake up Bob, you got caught dreaming in your sleep again.

November 12, 2011
“As we keep hearning about BK I have to ask "what exactly do you think will happen to us?"”
“Our peers at other carriers did not Lose their pensions, their pensions were frozen and in nearly all cases an alternative DC pension was put in place.”
“We would lose Overhaul.
Well, the company has never ever proposed that so why would they go for it in BK? Where would they send all that work anyway?”
"We will lose retiree Medical"
We stand to make out better in BK than we would by agreeing to what Fleet has in the TA and the company has in their proposals for other groups.”
“The company could impose whatever it wanted in BK. 
The courts can not impose a new contract, they can allow the company to impose new terms and negotiations continue under the RLA but the question remains as to whether we can resort to self help.”

Bob breaks down BK for us, the one he says is a fear tactic but he distorts the facts again. Yes the other airlines didn’t lose their pensions but they did lose the ability to continue to accrue under the plan prior to BK. The Company has talked about outsourcing constantly, where have you been Bob? Why would they be comparing our costs if they did not have that as a backstop plan if we did not come up with a compromise? We were not losing retiree medical under the TA, only the funding option changed. We voted that plan down and Fleet got a worse deal on retiree medical but BK will be better? The BK court will approve terms on our agreement based on what will allow the Company to meet its commitments and we cannot go to self help if we don’t like the terms the judge approves. Unless Bob can get is to the highest court in the land that is.

Back when the International removed Chuck and I from office one of their employees admitted under oath that he was assigned to monitor and record everything I wrote. Looks like somebody still has that job. I stand behind what I've written, and Overspeeds feeble attempts to take a sentence, or part of a sentence and spin it and claim I'm saying something that he imagines speaks volumes. I already showed how his claims were false in his last round of accusations, instead of defending his position and debating he simply thows out a slew of new accusations. Over the years I've put out thousands of posts so Overspeed has a huge number of posts to draw and spin from. I dont have the time to keep debunking all Overspeeds false claims, so I guess it comes down to is credibility, look at the claims he made earlier and how easy it was to debunk what he was claiming. The Continental one was real easy, he was trying to spin things to say I was flip flopping on Continental when I said that in 2009 we should not rush into a concessionary deal until Continental got a contract, but later said that we should not base our demands on the interum agreement they put in placed after the announcement of the merger with United. Things change. But that didnt fit Overspeeds agenda. The fact that he makes all his accusations from behind an alias speaks volumes as well.

 

[Birdman]

Bob, you said all that stuff and more on this blog. You know you did but now are trying to squirm out of it.

I've read Bob's posts for many years and can cherry pick as many posts that were spot on than not. Your nothing more than a diehard TWU minion trying to silence/censor a voice your masters are threatened by. I welcome all opinions on these forums knowing we all share the same right of free speech. Isn't this a great country?

 

[Overspeed]

Bob on leadership.

August 13, 2007
“Littles position leaves workers with few alternatives, one being illegal job actions or wildcat strikes if they ever want to see their standard of living restored, the other is to quit and find a new career. Either way we must be prepared to act without leadership from the TWU.”

Little stated that the next offer is usually worse than the first one. So far he has been correct. Owens does not care and advocates illegal job actions risking people’s jobs.

February 5, 2008
“Might be a good time to start another card drive.”
“The International has gone back to their old ways. During the negotiations in 2000 they let out information because thats what AMFA was doing, now that they feel the AMFA threat is gone they are going back to their heavy handed dictatorial tactics of sequestering 21 local leaders, on company property, then steering them to a predetermined conclusion while making them believe that they actually came to that conclusion through bargaining, then make those people go back and sell yet another inferior deal to their members.”

Whenever Owens doesn’t get it his way, he throws and tantrum and wants to take his ball and start his own club with people that think his way.

September 21, 2008
“All the Presidents are paid by the company, perhaps Little threatened that if they didnt bring the proposal back that the company payments would be cancelled. For many of the 21 Presidents there would not be enough money in their Locals to pay them, their Locals would either have to send the Presidents back to the floor or be liquidated and the membership transferred to a larger Local.”

Lays accusations that the TWU Presidents are bough off by the Company and that Little threatened them. When Bob doesn’t like someone else’s opinion, he attacks them personally.

July 16, 2009
“I say make us number one in pay then you have the right to expect us to do whatever we can to make you number one in performance. Its their move now.”

Bob discusses that members are restricting output until they get more money. Is a website the right place to be discussing work slowdowns and negotiating tactics? NO

October 9, 2009
“The fact is that most of the main proponants of this disasterous offer are now part of the International. Did these guys have their members in mind when they did this or was it the opportunity to go into the International?”
“One has to wonder , if we never came off our original table position what would Continentals counter have been, or would they have simply refused to counter like AA has done?”

Bob doesn’t like the deal and is unable to get it changed to his way so he attacks those that started the negotiations process before he was there.

December 8, 2009
“Get ready to fight and show the company that you are ready to go as far as we have to to get what we need. Talk about about how we must fight at work and correct those who preach defeatism. Remember that when people say that we cant or shouldnt fight they are working in the interest of the company and against our interests.”

Bob tells members that anyone that says anything different than his mantra are working, “…against our interests.” Isn’t the entire membership “our” interests including those that may lose their jobs due to his inflexible negotiating style?

February 28, 2010
“The fact is that we on the line do line maintenance and we should make it clear that if they want the performance of WN they will have to pay us like WN.”
“We work at the point of revenue and we can do it. Local 562 handles around 11% of AA's flights but that 11% makes up a large percentage of AAs most lucrative routes. We may only be around 3% of the total TWU workforce but our location, at least in this example, gives us more leverage than our numbers. To put it bluntly "we can hit em where it hurts".”

Discusses that line is not working up to capabilities because they are holding out for Southwest pay. Also suggest a job action in Local 562. Isn’t that illegal Bob while in negotiations.

February 28, 2010
“We can no longer afford to just accept what the tyranny of the majority dictates. Remember that we work at the point of revenue generation, there's a lot of power that comes with that, its time we started to recognize that. The alternative is another 18% reduction in your wages, (thats what the company is offering), the majority of the negotiations committee has on two occasions voted to accept two 3% raises and not much else, last time for a three year term. Are either of these acceptable to you?”

Bob likes democracy when it does what he thinks. Calls democracy, “…tyranny of the majority.”

February 28, 2010
“In fact the first statement was an answer to "how do you get the OH bases to recognize it?". I said "You can't". We cant force anything on OH, but we can make it clear to the company that if something is forced on us that is unacceptable that we will not accept it. We cant, not anymore.”

When Bob is asked about how overhaul will realize that the Line needs more money he responds that you can’t and advocates the Line take action that they cannot accept it. How? Through an illegal job action? Great Bob.

March 11, 2010
“If a BK judge forced further concessions I would advocate and take part in a wildcat strike. Without hesitation because I would have nothing to lose. You really dont get it do you, we are at the bottom. If AA closed its doors it would just be the kick we need to get on with our lives. Thats what they've done to us, thats why as it was put by management "we suck" on the line.”

Again Bob advocating an illegal job action. “I would advocate and take part in a wildcat strike.”

December 2, 2010
“The company and our union, both the International (note how their expectations havent diminished based on LM-2 reports) and some local leaders, have successfully lowered our expectations to the point where we look at what other carriers pay their mechanics and say that its a "pipe dream" to expect to make a similar wage!!! What we fail to realize that from a bargaining position we are in the best position we've ever been in. Because things are so bad,(wages, benifits, working conditions, job security) things are good. If we were released AA is not and can not get prepared.”
“The company probably still will not budge, Brundage made it clear where he stood. Right now they may only see a problem in the future, they need to know there's a problem now. Just because we are old it should not mean that we are unwilling to fight.”

Bob once again with personal attacks on those who tell him information that is counter to his beliefs. Since he cannot successfully attack the content of the message he attacks the messenger.

December 31, 2010
“Well, I've already stated that my objective is to get us good pay, even at the expense of future growth. I've told our area director not to hire anybody because our guys need the OT to survive. So I really am not concerned with raising dues revenue through more heads. I'd rather be a part of a lean, well paid and motivated workforce than a part of the many miserable.”

Bob doesn’t care about the long term health of the Company he works for. Shows what a poor leader he is. If the Company doesn’t grow then labor costs will continue to rise and hurt long term profitability which is how we get raises in the future. Higher costs and flat revenue, not good Bob.

May 14, 2011
"The unions, not just the TWU but all unions, are forbidden from encouraging the members to do anything but if the members dont both the NMB and the company will ride this out until one of two things happen, one the workers settle for what the company is offering, or two the workers start wildcat actions. If I tell you to go out and write the #### out of everything they take legal actions against me, but if the workers go out there and approach their jobs the way the company approaches negotiations, putting forth the minimum effort to resolve the situation, there really isnt much they can do. We dont have too many kids in this industry, you guys know this stuff."
“The NMB needs to release us. We've asked twice, now we need you to ask. [email protected]”

Bob, after being in office for about three years and negotiating for about just as long, is getting frustrated that the NMB and the RLA doesn’t work the way he thinks. Now he wants to enlist all the unions and members to pressure the NMB to take a side, something they are forbidden to do. Did that happen? NO, Bob is wrong and can’t admit it.

June 4, 2011
“Lets see what happens now that they rejected the TA, maybe we should get in touch with each other on a grass roots level and coordinate our actions, because if we get released we dont have to strike, we can engage in CHAOS, and one of the things about CHAOS is that when mechanics do it we clean up on OT.”

UA did turn down their TA, and they didn’t start negotiating over at square one. Also, Bob said he needed to have the ability to strike to force AA’s hand, now he says, “…we don’t have to strike,” and he also wants to sync up a strike across two major airlines. We can’t even sync up our negotiating committee, how will he be able to engineer the airline union version of D-Day?

June 17, 2011
“The International certainly isnt doing anything to convince the company to sweeten the pot if they know they wont sweeten the pot unless faced with a strike and they are not working towards even the threat of one.”
“Why not call for a release? Are there risks associated with a release? Of course, but it presents opportunities as well. You cant expect the benifits of a Union Shop without the expectation that you may periodically have to resort to industrial actions in order to retain those benifits. A release levels the playing field, right now the company can just sit back and reap concessions through inflation. Once released we can engage in collective bargaining instead of collective begging.”

And thirteen days later Bob is back on striking. Bob may be bi-polar. I’m just saying…

September 10, 2011
“Getting released and going on strike are two different questions. Getting released puts us on a 30 day clock, we would be offered binding arbitration or possibly be referred to a PEB or be released to self help which would open up several more scenarios.”

Bob now is saying that we should ask for release to get to binding arbitration or a PEB. So the release was to pressure the Company or move past mediation?

September 10, 2011
“I want a release, lets take this to the next step whether its PEB, Self help or simply real negotiations where both sides face consequences should we not reach an agreement, right now only the membership suffers.”

Owens wants, “…a release…,” where both sides face consequences. Did he educate the membership on that the loss of their jobs, pensions, and wages may be at stake?

September 14, 2011
“I say we need to just go ahead with the process, demand a release, even if we end up in a PEB. We need to bust the logjam. I actually spoke to a guy who was involved in the Amtrak PEB, he said that despite the fact that Bush was the President at the time the ruling was favorable, and it included several years of backpay.”

Bob, “…actually spoke to a guy who was involved in the Amtrak PEB.” Great. Did he actually read the Amtrak PEB? Did he read an airline related one like the AA APA PEB? Probably not because it wasn’t favorable to his position.

September 25, 2011
“We have the option to jump to the front of the line, but we have to ask to be released. We went through the process, went through Mediation till they walked out.”
“The NMB is not being neutral, how could it be neutral when the guy in charge of mediation comes from Aircon? He spent his career fighting against increased wages for airline workers, now, if we walk away with a much improved contract after rejecting a TA the industry will be right back where it was in 2000, with TA after TA being rejected and workers restoring their wages.”

One year has passed since the AA TA was voted down by Bob and his vote no group. Bob must be getting frustrated. Continental passed their TA and line AMT wages at DOS were slightly lower than what was in the failed TA. Didn’t he say that we should wait until after CO got a contract so we could build off them? Oops, that didn’t work Bob did it? So now he attacks the NMB as being biased. Most Federal agencies are staffed with people familiar with the industry. Look at the FDA, SEC, and the Treasury Bob. That’s how the system works. If you studied the system and the rules better you probably would have followed Little’s advice and recommended a yes vote. But you’re a fighter! But a losing fighter unfortunately.

 

[Overspeed]

Back when the International removed Chuck and I from office one of their employees admitted under oath that he was assigned to monitor and record everything I wrote. Looks like somebody still has that job. I stand behind what I've written, and Overspeeds feeble attempts to take a sentence, or part of a sentence and spin it and claim I'm saying something that he imagines speaks volumes. I already showed how his claims were false in his last round of accusations, instead of defending his position and debating he simply thows out a slew of new accusations. Over the years I've put out thousands of posts so Overspeed has a huge number of posts to draw and spin from. I dont have the time to keep debunking all Overspeeds false claims, so I guess it comes down to is credibility, look at the claims he made earlier and how easy it was to debunk what he was claiming. The Continental one was real easy, he was trying to spin things to say I was flip flopping on Continental when I said that in 2009 we should not rush into a concessionary deal until Continental got a contract, but later said that we should not base our demands on the interum agreement they put in placed after the announcement of the merger with United. Things change. But that didnt fit Overspeeds agenda. The fact that he makes all his accusations from behind an alias speaks volumes as well.

So if somebody calls you on the carpet their words are false and you are the official debunking department. Someone takes the time to debunk you based on your own words and you don't like it. So what if you are being watched, afraid of being accountable for your BS? Those are your words taken from this very blog you so proudly post on.
.
And the majority of the people on this blog as well as many other post using pseudonyms and your point is...

 

[TWU informer]

So if somebody calls you on the carpet their words are false and you are the official debunking department. Someone takes the time to debunk you based on your own words and you don't like it. So what if you are being watched, afraid of being accountable for your BS? Those are your words taken from this very blog you so proudly post on.
.
And the majority of the people on this blog as well as many other post using pseudonyms and your point is...

I dont believe your effort is having the intended result you are looking for Overspeed, it is more like overkill.

What really irks me is that I bet you are being paid out of my paycheck to do this and therefore I reject it.

All that happens is I feel like defending Bob now because I too believe the International is behind this activity.
And I dislike the International so much I turn against whatever they do, your postings are not educational, they are more hate related to me. Most of us have been reading Bob's post for years. I while I do not agree with them all, I sure as hell don't need you trying to twist with your own opinions what he means by what he says.

If you have your opinions about issues, then post them here. If you are here to turn this into TV type Attack ads, most will tune you out.

I did not even finish reading the first book/post you laid out here. And the rest I have skipped over.

Basically I know what your point is but overkill by overspeed is a turn off.

This is a forum is for opinions and ideas, not for professional attack ads like you see in politics.
Take your dirt machine and go after one of your evil Republicans and leave the debating membership to themselves. You are doing more harm that good here.

One more, in that format and I will push ignore on everything you post.

 

[enough already]

I dont believe your effort is having the intended result you are looking for Overspeed, it is more like overkill.

One more, in that format and I will push ignore on everything you post.

Unfortunately, my ignore list is growing as a result of the hate spewing. However, all we have to argue about nowadays is the he said-he said stuff because we never get any tangible fodder relating to the BK/negotiations to debate. So now we are reduced to personal attacks.

 

[TWU informer]

Regardless of opinions on Bob's postings, at least he has no problem with his name being attached to what he adds here.
That still means something in my book regardless of whether or not I am in agreement with the content.
Some International stooge hiding behind the alias adding his spin to Bob's postings for manipulation does not deserve the same respect.

 

[BigMac]

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/20/3823532/fort-worth-hires-attorney-to-handle.html

 

[Bob Owens]

No AA is not outsourcing to UA/CO. You stated several times that we should wait for UA and CO to settle. UA and CO did and they also have significant outsourcing beyond what AA has currently.

Bob, you said all that stuff and more on this blog. You know you did but now are trying to squirm out of it.

Not trying to squirm out of anything just disputing your claims of what you are saying I meant. So who are you and why won't you reveal yourself? Who is the one squirming, me, when I already said I stand behind what I wrote, or you the guy making accusations from behind an alias? I answered over a dozen of your accusations and asked you just a few questions based on claims you made, well who is AA sending all their work to? Once again you are caught in a lie. So what do you do? You try to change the subject. I asked who AA was sending the work to , who are they, and you reply United, so I questioned the answer , United? To which you start saying they outsource more than AA does. Ok, well back to the original question, who is AA sending all the work to?

By the way UA also gets paid a lot more than we do. We used to make as much as UPS and more than both Fed Ex and WN, and back then they outsourced just as much as they do now. Is it your position that in order to keep work in house we should all agree to eventually make MRO wages?

 

[Birdman]

I dont believe your effort is having the intended result you are looking for Overspeed, it is more like overkill.

I don't believe there is just one Overspeed. It takes a tremendous amount of time to research past comments and add rebutals on each. The internAAtional, no doubt, has many relatives on the debunk team.

 

[AA89]

Most participants here use aliases for whatever reasons. Kudos to Bob and the others that do not, but I would imagine using his full name openly has something to do with being a union officer and this forum is another way for him to get his ideas and beliefs out. I use an alias because while those close to me know my ideas and beliefs, I don't feel the need for everyone in my workgroup to to know what they are.
Overspeed can defend himself I know, but I see nothing wrong with questioning Bob's posts or his ideas. Anyone who has read them or seen them on youtube knows what his opinions were on the T/A and what they are in BK. He takes a hardline stance in both.
Asking for facts to back up that stance should be welcomed if Bob expects to convince the Yes voters to change their minds.