Bob on BK
May 20, 2008
“…but are the shareholders willing to allow management to lose all their money instead of coming to a fair agreement with the employees whose sacrifice saved them from watching their shares liquidated…”
Bob is certain that bankruptcy will never happen because the shareholders won’t let management do that. WRONG.
December 10, 2008
“…I think we've all had enough of sacrificing for plans that have no benifit for us. If $24 billion a year isnt enough revenue and they cant make a go of it without our charity then let them go C-11 or 7.”
Now says that if the Company can’t get their act together, then let AA go Chapter 11 or 7.
March 7, 2009
“Its like the guy crying poverty who pulls into his driveway with a brand new car. AA has ordered billions worth of new airplanes but they are cryaing poverty to their workers.”
Bob is certain that AA is lying. In his opinion potential BK companies don’t reinvest in themselves. He hasn’t paid attention to the many other BK airlines that have since bought new aircraft and equipment. It happens in the real world but not Bob’s world.
June 20, 2009
“While the ATD keeps talking BK we dont hear any such talk from the company, instead we hear about new airplane orders. A contract in place lowers the risks for creditors and AA can get better rates. Billions will be borrowed to buy new airplanes, a 1% drop in the Intrest rate on $1 billion is $10 million saved. Depending on how much and how long the loan is for they could save hundreds of millions by having contracts in place.”
Does not believe the factual information or advice of those “in-the-know” and alludes to BK being nothing but a manipulation tactic from the International.
July 1, 2009
“Thats bull. First of all by lowering our demands we screwed ourselves if the company does go BK and whether of not they go BK has nothing to do woth us, the pilots may have some effect due to their big pensions but us, no way”
“Right now we are already on the lower end of the scale for majors. By 2011 we will likely be number 5 or 6 in pay with an unprecidented gap between us and the top. By 2011 we will lag SWA, the number two in pay for aircraft mechanics.”
States AA going to BK is “bull” and that the committee is lowering their demands giving in to fear. As we all know, BK was not “bull” Bob but what you said was bull.
July 26, 2009
“One thing thats guaranteed is that they would have a new crisis in place to justify not paying us.”
Bob again raises his belief, not based in fact, is that BK is a manufactured crisis.
October 9, 2009
“If for some reason the company did reject our concessionary offer I would be in favor of being released, then real negotiations could begin. Do you really think that Citibank and all those others who just dumped billions into AA are going to let AA go BK through a strike? AA will have to get serious about a deal once the clock starts ticking, their creditors will demand it. AA would be stupid to try and shoot for bottom pay, unlike 2005 there isnt a supply of mechanics out there and there isnt a surpluss of seats out there either.”
Again states that BK is not going to happen because Citibank and other investors won’t let it happen. WRONG
November 5, 2009
“I dont know how to say this any clearer than this ' I DO NOT CARE ABOUT AA'S FINANCIAL PROBLEMS ANYMORE, I WANT MY MONEY OR I WOULD RATHER SEE THEM GO AWAY SO THOSE CARRIERS THAT KNOW HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS AND PAY THEIR WORKERS WILL HAVE ROOM TO EXPAND AND HIRE US.”
Owens says he would, “…rather see them (AA) go away…,” in BK. Well “they” won’t but many union members will.
February 28, 2010
“The point is they arent the only ones who can make threats. We need to recognize that.”
Bob responds to concerns about BK, losing the pension, and outsourcing. Says the Company is making threats.
December 2, 2010
“Bankruptcy? What would they have to gain by it that they havent already taken? The Pension? They save money with the DBP at the moment.”
Bob discounting the BK possibility again. Every other airline has frozen or terminated the pension to reduce their future financial liability but Bob says the DB plan “saves” money. NOT ENTIRELY TRUE AGAIN. Twist and spin, let’s everybody do the Owens dance!
April 23, 2011
“While I would not be suprised if some in the International tried to play up the inevitable doom and gloom show (some still love to throw out the specter of "BK") I'm not too concerned with anything they decide to put in their little slide show. The group of guys that are in there now have ignored them in the past and will do so again.”
Bob dismisses the talk of BK as fear tactic again. Says he isn’t concerned about, “…their little slide show.” I am so glad Bob is paying attention, but only to HIS facts.
May 6, 2011
“So why should we be afraid of BK? All we have is a promise, a promise like the Supplimental Medical that the company collected and pocketed after 20 years. Have you ever met anyone who collected from that? You'd have a better chance coming across a LOTTO winner than an active employee who got a payout from the Supplimental Medical. While our pension, which is legally and woefully underfunded thanks to our own lobbying efforts, is still a promise that the company uses to drive down wages in the here and now our peers have been getting direct contributions to their 401K plans. Real money that the company cant touch once its there. Hell all BK could do is take away our pension and give us $6.15 an hour more in the here and now!”
“So the answer is not only are we worse off than our peers at other carriers that have never filed BK but we are worse off than nearly all those that have.”
“Even if as the company threatened we have to come back in 6 months and renegotiate it under BK.”
“The company would not realize savings from maint in BK, our peers earn less and our pension costs the company less in the here and now than the DC plans.”
“We have to go for the money, threats or no threats.”
Earlier Bob said BK was a fear tactic, now he acknowledges it but says its not that bad. “Hell all BK could do is take away our pensions and give us $6.15 an hour more…,” he says. Really? Has that happened in BK? Has anyone gotten a raise in BK? NO. But then he ends with it’s just a threat anyway. He can’t make up his mind.
August 31, 2011
“Well the company has been threatening to file BK since 2003. I would think they would have done so prior to amassing $5 billion in cash and paying off half their debt. Normally you build up debt and burn cash before filing BK.”
“Normally?” Bob is now an expert on BKs? Okay.
September 14, 2011
“I think the company has told the unions that if any of them asks for and gets a release then they will file. To me, after eight years of living under the threat I say lets go. Why give them another concessionary deal only to find them using the same threat in another five years?”
“So let us set the rate that the bankrupt carriers can follow as their first negotiated agreement after Bankruptcy based on our historical position between the Freighters like UPS and the LCCs like WN and JB, any disadvantage that AA has would be short lived. Our brothers and Sisters at UAL already rejected their deal, lets give them some sort of a challenge as far as something to top. Lets see which union can come out on top, the TWU, the IBT(UAL) or the IAM(USAIR).”
Okay now what is it? BK is a threat or BS? He said on June 20, 2009 that the only person that has mentioned BK was the ATD. Now he says he has been hearing it for eight years. Bob wanted to set the standard for airlines negotiating their first contract out of BK. Now we will be following their (UA, NW, and US) example of what you get in BK and following them. I thought Bob was against pattern bargaining? Oh, my mistake, he is apparently in favor of pattern BK.
October 1, 2011
“I think BK is a scam.”
“What I am an advocate of is not panicing every time the company throws it out there. I feel we were wrong to accept concessions in 2003 and should have held our ground and that by doing what we did we doomed in house OH at all AAs competitors.”
“We have no control over BK and we are not a big enough component in the equation where what we do would have any influence over that decision anyway. In other words they dont stand to gain much in BK from us.”
“I think BK is a scam.” Yes Bob, it’s a scam and AA doesn’t, “…stand to gain much from us.” How come in every other airline BK maintenance did suffer massive cuts in every area? You are in denial Bob.
October 16, 2011
“Now comes the BK scare tactics, no doubt the International will barrage the Presidents Council this week with doom and gloom about BK, the fact is that we have no control over that anyway and the $ 190 million a year we were asking for isn't enough to make a trip to BK worth it.”
“Maybe, if they do file, (which I don't think they will) we will be the ones to do it, then again if they do file the pilots will be the ones with the most to lose so we could ride on their coat tails, but no real union would tolerate allowing a Judge to order their members to work under terms they did not negotiate and were set with only the companies interests in mind. “
Yes that’s right. “Now comes the BK scare tactics…,” and, “…the $190 million a year we were asking for isn’t enough to make a trip to BK worth it.” Bob you called it, BK won’t be happening. “Maybe, if they do file, (which I don’t think they will)…,” called it again. And the statement, “…no real union would tolerate allowing a Judge to order their members to work under terms they did not negotiate…,” is classic. Bob what are you planning on?
October 27, 2011
“Look around, wake up people, AA has plenty of money for everything, except the employees.”
“Wake up people, AA has plenty of money…,” which shows you that Bob doesn’t understand BK Chapter 11. You can file BK and restructure your debts and other financial obligations and have money. The goal was to make the business work and pay off the secured creditors for the AMR BOD, not pay the employees and other unsecured creditors. Wake up Bob, you got caught dreaming in your sleep again.
November 12, 2011
“As we keep hearning about BK I have to ask "what exactly do you think will happen to us?"”
“Our peers at other carriers did not Lose their pensions, their pensions were frozen and in nearly all cases an alternative DC pension was put in place.”
“We would lose Overhaul.
Well, the company has never ever proposed that so why would they go for it in BK? Where would they send all that work anyway?”
"We will lose retiree Medical"
We stand to make out better in BK than we would by agreeing to what Fleet has in the TA and the company has in their proposals for other groups.”
“The company could impose whatever it wanted in BK.
The courts can not impose a new contract, they can allow the company to impose new terms and negotiations continue under the RLA but the question remains as to whether we can resort to self help.”
Bob breaks down BK for us, the one he says is a fear tactic but he distorts the facts again. Yes the other airlines didn’t lose their pensions but they did lose the ability to continue to accrue under the plan prior to BK. The Company has talked about outsourcing constantly, where have you been Bob? Why would they be comparing our costs if they did not have that as a backstop plan if we did not come up with a compromise? We were not losing retiree medical under the TA, only the funding option changed. We voted that plan down and Fleet got a worse deal on retiree medical but BK will be better? The BK court will approve terms on our agreement based on what will allow the Company to meet its commitments and we cannot go to self help if we don’t like the terms the judge approves. Unless Bob can get is to the highest court in the land that is.
