TWU negotiations.........what?

[Overspeed]

They dumped it in several locations.



Their company match is gone for the MCTs. For some of our guys its a hefty sum.




Arent the ranks of management also affected by outsourcing? On the one hand you are saying that nonunion Delta traded awat jobs for Holidays even though they had the Holidays before the jobs went away and if thats the case what all of a sudden made Delta do that? Was it the fact that AA had lowered costs outside of BK? Its not a question of fairness, its a question of your logic, you claim that workers at AA had to give up vacation to save jobs yet management jobs were also saved however there was no need for them to give up vacation. If one thing was directly related to the other Vaction=Jobs then management would have been required to give them up as well, or settle for less managers, in fact not only did they keep the vacation but they added jobs.



Wrong, it wasnt till well after we put SRPs in place that competitors started outsourcing more than AA, of the legacies we outsourced more than anyone else at the time.



Wrong again, read the CR Smith letter, our scope never requires the company to hire more workers. We are entitled to the work we can handle, if we cant handle it, even if its due to a lack of manpower they can send it out, like they did with the 757s. The only reason why the company lost the grievance on the engines is because the company did not discuss it with the union first.

Spin, spin, spin...

Dumped cargo, realigning your strategy is not dumping. Should a company stay involved in a business segment it is no longer profitable in?

The money in the retiree medical trust can only be used for its intended purpose. You know that and were told that by attorneys who know the law. The MCTs still have the raise they got under the TA, that was the point and no the Company did not keep the retiree trust fund to do as they wish. It is still be used to pay benefits to retirees as it is required to by law.

Yes management will be reduced with outsourcing. Your point is? The point of your holiday rant was that the line got screwed by the base (line lost 100 hours of pay). Whatever Delta reduced cost-wise through outsourcing allows them to pay more to fewer elsewhere while still realizing a cost reduction for maintenance. You can argue each piece but reducing the total maintenance cost is what Delta did through outsourcing.

Really? Not true DOT F41 data shows CO (outsourced after 1983 BK), WN (grew fleet and AA route overlay without bringing work inhouse), US (which almost went BK in the early 90s), and NW (which almost went BK) prior to the implementation of SRPs.

The CR Smith letter describes outsourcing at current practice. If current practice is doing 90% of your work in maintenance spend in house and your hiring and compensation practices are based on your CBA then yes you have to hire more people to maintain the 90% inhouse maintenance spend. Also, their is a proviso that under the Baker letter that it must be discussed with the union first to see if we have the resources and ability to do the work inhouse, all the plans the union came up with apparently weren't feasible without putting cost saving mods or grounding aircraft. If the "bump" in work was long term, then the union could have made an argument that this was not temporary and AA was outsourcing TWU work.

Don't worry Bob, your plan of reducing overhaul is coming to fruition. You will be able to get your holidays and VC soon.

 

[Buck]

Is line maintenance a profit center?

 

[Overspeed]

Really? Didn't they have 10 hoildays before they outsourced? AA competitors outsourced because of AA. AA had low paid OSMs in place since 1995 and put them in place when the company was expanding. AA's competitors did not have that, in fact some still held on to things that we had given away back in 1983!! Then just as UAL got a TA that capped the concession in BK at a 13% paycut and left pretty much everythin else intact we go and give AA concessions worth over 25% outside of BK in addition to having low paid mechanics (OSMs) in OH. Competitors could not hope to match AA so they shipped it out, USARWAYs eneded up making another trip to BK court.



The line will never be the majority at AA, not evn with the companys ASK, even at UAL OH still outnumbers the line. As licensed mechanics we have a responsibility to the profession, we need to keep the pay and benefits good, not give everything away every time the company threatens to outsource OH. If the company wants to pay Timco wages then let the work go to TIMCO. At least the guys would have the option to bump and the guys who get laid off would have recall rights to a job thats worth going back to. The workforce is not static, depsite the fact that we still have over 4000 lesss machanics than we did a decade ago AA has recalled everyone and has been hiring off the street.

If we are all there to only represent the interests of the majority then who represents the interests of the minority or is it your opinion that if it requires us settling for minimum wage to prevent outsourcing that we should just suck it up and do whats best for 'the majority"? Are you saying that because the line is the minority that they have no say?

And now AA is in BK. Didn't you say that was threat? Again, its a cost reduction problem, not a holiday problem. Cherry picking the things you want and neglecting the total cost/value is why you are an ineffective negotiator. US and UAL had other problems than just AA maintenance. Using your logic, we should have gone to BK in 2003 and kept the holidays and VC, outsourced TULE, AFW, and MCIE, and given up the pension and you would have been happy.

Let the work go to TIMCO? Hear that TULE, AFW, and DWH? It really is all about the line with you and what Bob gets.

You are there to represent that the majority get the best package possible. Nobody is saying settle for $7.50 an hour. In fact we were set to get top tier wages for the line and you recommended a no vote since there was more money on the table did you not and keep the existing work inhouse? Well..where is it?

 

[Overspeed]

In this mornings Ft. Worth Star-Telegram

101%. That's awesome! Now only if you produced it without working record setting amounts of OT. They conveniently left that out.

 

[Buck]

101%. That's awesome! Now only if you produced it without working record setting amounts of OT. They conveniently left that out.

What is the cost for the lease?

At 101%, can AFW pay for itself?

 

[Birdman]

101%. That's awesome! Now only if you produced it without working record setting amounts of OT. They conveniently left that out.

You think an MRO doesn't work ot, especially with the mechanic shortage? We've done more work with less people in o/h saving the compAAny millions in pensions, medical, workmans comp, and social security payments to name a few. We even do it better and faster according manAAgement. Can we improve? Sure.

 

[toroshark]

whatever it takes to save Informer! That's classic IGM, and one of the reasons WE can't stick together, anywhere!

Like Bob said earlier, the company pit's stations against each other in order to squeeze more out of us, and the union allows it. The union pit's stations against each other, mainly TUL against everybody else, in order to keep the majority in ONE facility. We even have crews within stations that fight amongst ourselves to get a better deal from management. This is classic manipulation of the membership by company and union. And, WE allow it to fester out of control.

So, I'm not at all surprised by Informer or anyone else that comes onto this forum and illustrates the IGM attitude because it's in our blood! I sometimes show the IGM, but at least I'll admit it!

Informer has been whining and crying forever trying to mask his complete IGM attitude. It will never end until the day his BBQ bologna-eating redneck arse is stuck in a Okie machine shop welding very little and kissing up to his boss a whole lot. I find his rants very entertaining. Somethings are just so stupid they are funny.

 

[Buck]

And the line is not complaining about their compensation?

Those of you that are worried about one employee, that most likely has more seniority than you, are that scared for your own livelihood.

Maybe Danny Martinez will keep you on and pay you the $50 /hr like you are wishing for and you won't have to bump TUL.




Can a OSM be a.union officer and get a pay raise?

 

[AA89]

Fewer airplanes needing checks, fewer flights in a given city, all works out as simple math.

Keeping jobs at places which aren't required anymore? Dumb in anyone's book.

Yet some are too blind by "don't close my stationitis that they can't step back and face the fact that AA has fewer airplanes than it had in 2003...

That ad is stating facts. Not any itis.

How many airplanes did AA have in 03, how many now, and how many will we have when this order is complete?

The airplanes being overhauled at AFW aren't disappearing in bankruptcy and the new airplanes that replace them as they are retired work will need to be overhauled somewhere. How is that work not required anymore? AA will have plenty of need for widebody overhaul in the future. AFW has that capacity.

The question is whether or not AFW can do it at a better value than wherever it ends up and whether or not the company cares about that value. With the changes Tulsa is going swallow and the aircraft we have ordered there is still plenty of "required " maintenance to be done.

It just seems the company has "break it off in the workers assitis" and some are too blind to see that................

 

[TWU informer]

Informer has been whining and crying forever trying to mask his complete IGM attitude. It will never end until the day his BBQ bologna-eating redneck arse is stuck in a Okie machine shop welding very little and kissing up to his boss a whole lot. I find his rants very entertaining. Somethings are just so stupid they are funny.

Already there dude, I am a Crew Chief, I weld very little, and meet daily with management to help out anyway I can. I take pride in my job, my skill, and the fact that turntimes are constantly reduced as a result of my actions. What would really stick in your eye would be to know that I am a Crew Chief over 3 A&P licensed AMT's in addition to the welders in my area. Call the shop next week and ask their opinion of me since only someone with an A&P would you believe or trust. PM me I will give you their names and the shop phone number to call.

And in contrast you are such a strong union man, willing to give anything you have to keep your co-workers happy and wealthy, share the wealth is your motto. I bet you are such a sharing and charitable man that there are no poor within a 200 mile radius of your presence. You give so much of what you have to others that charities selldom need more where you live. You worry about others more than yourself.
And that makes you a better man than me, plus you are far more skilled and smarter than me, I am your subordinate, so please tell me or show me the way so I might learn and be more like you. Even though I am not worthy to even post on the same forum as you, please forgive me as I ask for your guidance and wisdom.

I will begin a nightly prayer than I might learn from you as you share with us daily examples of how to give what you have to others so as to not be called an IGM ignorant OKIE welder. Don't hold back now, begin sharing examples of how it should done starting this evening.

 

[Overspeed]

Is line maintenance a profit center?

That's a NO! Profit margins on line MX are slim, the real money is not in LC or HC either. It's higher skill work or high volume work. AA could make money in areas like landing gear, engines, and components if they could figure out how to bill people. Don't get me wrong, there is high skill work in airframe and line but that is in the non-routine type work like structure repairs or troubleshooting systems on the line. Most of us know the repetitive work pretty well, its the nonstandard stuff is where you see the value of a quality AMT.

As it stands now, there are areas where AA could offset the cost of the line operation by doing some on-call where it makes sense and maybe signing some nose to tail agreements like we did with the HAL DC10s but as a whole, no line has a long way to go before it becomes a profit center.

 

[Overspeed]

And the line is not complaining about their compensation?

Those of you that are worried about one employee, that most likely has more seniority than you, are that scared for your own livelihood.

Maybe Danny Martinez will keep you on and pay you the $50 /hr like you are wishing for and you won't have to bump TUL.




Can a OSM be a.union officer and get a pay raise?

Danny is at AAR IND and he is not paying $50.

http://www.npr.org/2011/12/13/143586152/airplane-mechanics-a-farm-team-for-everyone-else

 

[TWU informer]

That's a NO! Profit margins on line MX are slim, the real money is not in LC or HC either. It's higher skill work or high volume work. AA could make money in areas like landing gear, engines, and components if they could figure out how to bill people. Don't get me wrong, there is high skill work in airframe and line but that is in the non-routine type work like structure repairs or troubleshooting systems on the line. Most of us know the repetitive work pretty well, its the nonstandard stuff is where you see the value of a quality AMT.

As it stands now, there are areas where AA could offset the cost of the line operation by doing some on-call where it makes sense and maybe signing some nose to tail agreements like we did with the HAL DC10s but as a whole, no line has a long way to go before it becomes a profit center.

BINGO!
But now you will be designated dumbass OKIE IGM idiot.
Welcome to the club!

 

[AA89]

101%. That's awesome! Now only if you produced it without working record setting amounts of OT. They conveniently left that out.

You are saying that the workers at AFW are less productive than elsewhere?

I will ask for your proof of that and that the OT is record setting.

And then I will remind you that OT is cheap labor for the company and let you figure out why.

 

[Overspeed]

You think an MRO doesn't work ot, especially with the mechanic shortage? We've done more work with less people in o/h saving the compAAny millions in pensions, medical, workmans comp, and social security payments to name a few. We even do it better and faster according manAAgement. Can we improve? Sure.

Think of the whole thing end to end.

If you produce at 101% but at 150% of the labor cost (OT) as the outside MRO that is not cost effective. The only way to offset that higher cost is if you turn the plane way faster and can generate enough revenue to outweigh the higher cost and deliver better than the outside MRO quality. That is where the line comes in. If the line take planes OTS for things they could fix on the gate or turn faster then all the faster turn times delivered by the base are then squandered by the line.

But according to Bob and Chuck we walk on water on the line.