TWU negotiations.........what?

[strikeforce]

That'll show 'em!!!

Surely that will get 'em on your side too.

Good Luck!Some people just cannot understand that the business decision to close AFW had nothing to do with performance. It has everything to do with COST and along with Fleet Size and Maintenance Needs compared to maintenance capacity.

Another way to view advertisement would be this...

Would you keep paying millions in lease fees to keep a maintenance facility that you no longer needed to maintain your aircraft fleet? If yes would that be a sound business decision?

Would Local 567 be willing to give AA MRO wages, productivity, and work rules to attempt third party maintenance programs for others? No, you would then be running advertisements about how much you have already given up and how unfair that would be to the profession.

Just out of curiousity...How many voted against the T/A at Local 567?

You didn't have to bust AFW's balls. Their local is at least doing something to save their jobs. Your comments are that of an ####!!!

 

[TWU informer]

You didn't have to bust AFW's balls. Their local is at least doing something to save their jobs. Your comments are that of an ####!!!

I disagree with your opinion again, but at least thanks for admitting your original claim was unfounded and false.

 

[Buck]

How much does it cost to keep AFW open?

In other words how much does this business unit have to produce at 101% to offset the cost of the lease?

 

[Overspeed]

The math is irrelevant Bro, The concessions were sold to the negotiating committeein in 2003 as saving Jobs! there was no discussion of a shrinking fleet, only to save jobs and that did not happen!

So a company making business decisions to shrink the fleet to adjust to prevailing market conditions is irrelevant? Alright bro, glad you are not going to be in court.

And it may not have happened in NYC but it did in other stations. The world does not revolve around JFK.

 

[Buck]

So a company making business decisions to shrink the fleet to adjust to prevailing market conditions is irrelevant? Alright bro, glad you are not going to be in court.

And it may not have happened in NYC but it did in other stations. The world does not revolve around JFK.

But it does revolve around TUL....

 

[Overspeed]

How much does it cost to keep AFW open?

In other words how much does this business unit have to produce at 101% to offset the cost of the lease?

How much does it cost? That is the best question ever. AA doesn't know so they make assumptions based on sketchy information. The only thing AA does know is how much we make. What it costs to actually fix a given airplane or fleet is another thing.

As far as how much a business unit has to produce is another good question. If you could pay a little bit more for the work but get a plan faster (less OTS time for the check so you can have more days to generate revenue with your plane) and an aircraft/engine combo has better inservice reliability than the other guy, then that would be worth it. After hearing the TIMCO 757 performance I would say there is some measurable value in what AA lost in OTS and lost reliability.

 

[Buck]

How much does it cost? That is the best question ever. AA doesn't know so they make assumptions based on sketchy information. The only thing AA does know is how much we make. What it costs to actually fix a given airplane or fleet is another thing.

As far as how much a business unit has to produce is another good question. If you could pay a little bit more for the work but get a plan faster (less OTS time for the check so you can have more days to generate revenue with your plane) and an aircraft/engine combo has better inservice reliability than the other guy, then that would be worth it. After hearing the TIMCO 757 performance I would say there is some measurable value in what AA lost in OTS and lost reliability.

How much is the lease?

 

[Overspeed]

Not gonna work Informer, I mean Overspeed, I mean Informer. You can't handle the truth. And, you have NO plan! The truth is TUL happens to be the TWU's only hope of survival, and that's why they are fighting as hard as hell to save their own soul while making it look like their saving jobs. 100% of the membership outside of Tulsa knows this except Tulsa. AFW happens to be closely aligned with the Line to oust the TWU, and that's why the TWU hasn't shown interest in saving those jobs or the jobs of close to 500 Line mechanics throughout the system. We're not blind or dumb, but WE are our own worst enemies, that's for sure! I presume when the 767 and 777 heavy's are saved they will be done in Tulsa. Good for you!

For the record, up until the early 90s AA ran a 600 aircraft fleet with about 9 different types with one overhaul base - TULE. AFW was added in anticipation of fleet growth. Now we have three bases and the same number of aircraft and 5 fleet types.

Since most of the pre-1995 work force was 25 years plus working without the benefit of fancy BITE systems and computers those old timers did a pretty good job huh?

 

[Bob Owens]

I concur........I would be curiuos to see how well or bad management would be without a union. Delta seems to be operating just fine without a union and the mechs I bet are getting full pay for a sick day and doing better then 5 holidays paid at time and a half.

From what I hear from guys at Delta, and some who left, is that they would like to have a union but they would not pick one that got their members lower pay and less benefits than they have/had.

Delta Gets 7 sick days, 10 holidays at 2x or they can take a Comp day, they get a week more vacation than we do for the first 25 years but they can also cash in unused sick time for an additional week, giving them 80 hours more vacation, and they currently max out at $37.43 and are due a raise this Summer.

Nobody else in the industry only gets 5 holidays and nobody else only gets 1.5x for working, they either get Double or 2.5X, even the non-union ones. Even non-union workers at AA get doubletime or a comp day and 10 Holidays.

The Holiday concession cost line guys 100 hours pay per year compared to what we used to get.

 

[Overspeed]

I see you also possess valuable Communist values in addition to ignorance.

"I don't like the content of the free speech, ban the bastards"

Are you a TWU Officer part time?

I believe the appropriate term would be fascism.

 

[Overspeed]

From what I hear from guys at Delta, and some who left, is that they would like to have a union but they would not pick one that got their members lower pay and less benefits than they have/had.

Delta Gets 7 sick days, 10 holidays at 2x or they can take a Comp day, they get a week more vacation than we do for the first 25 years but they can also cash in unused sick time for an additional week, giving them 80 hours more vacation, and they currently max out at $37.43 and are due a raise this Summer.

Nobody else in the industry only gets 5 holidays and nobody else only gets 1.5x for working, they either get Double or 2.5X, even the non-union ones. Even non-union workers at AA get doubletime or a comp day and 10 Holidays.

The Holiday concession cost line guys 100 hours pay per year compared to what we used to get.

And using the same logic DL got the 10 holidays at the expense of airframe overhaul that is now done outside.

It's not all about the Line and JFK. You are there to negotiate a deal that benefits the majority not the minority unless your plan is to make the Line the majority.

 

[Overspeed]

How much is the lease?

Not sure. I'll have to check back. I believe Pike should know.

 

[Bob Owens]

And using the same logic DL got the 10 holidays at the expense of airframe overhaul that is now done outside.

Really? Didn't they have 10 hoildays before they outsourced? AA competitors outsourced because of AA. AA had low paid OSMs in place since 1995 and put them in place when the company was expanding. AA's competitors did not have that, in fact some still held on to things that we had given away back in 1983!! Then just as UAL got a TA that capped the concession in BK at a 13% paycut and left pretty much everythin else intact we go and give AA concessions worth over 25% outside of BK in addition to having low paid mechanics (OSMs) in OH. Competitors could not hope to match AA so they shipped it out, USARWAYs eneded up making another trip to BK court.

It's not all about the Line and JFK. You are there to negotiate a deal that benefits the majority not the minority unless your plan is to make the Line the majority.

The line will never be the majority at AA, not evn with the companys ASK, even at UAL OH still outnumbers the line. As licensed mechanics we have a responsibility to the profession, we need to keep the pay and benefits good, not give everything away every time the company threatens to outsource OH. If the company wants to pay Timco wages then let the work go to TIMCO. At least the guys would have the option to bump and the guys who get laid off would have recall rights to a job thats worth going back to. The workforce is not static, depsite the fact that we still have over 4000 lesss machanics than we did a decade ago AA has recalled everyone and has been hiring off the street.

If we are all there to only represent the interests of the majority then who represents the interests of the minority or is it your opinion that if it requires us settling for minimum wage to prevent outsourcing that we should just suck it up and do whats best for 'the majority"? Are you saying that because the line is the minority that they have no say?

 

[Birdman]

If the company wants to pay Timco wages then let the work go to TIMCO.

I agree, but if rumors are to be believed you must be at odds with those in charge who may want an increase in base OSM's, which consequently wouldn't even add up to that much savings.

 

[Bob Owens]

AA did not dump cargo, revenues have dropped probably due to less belly capacity (parked DC10s, A300s, and MD11s) not because it is unprofitable as you claim. AA hasn't run a cargo only plane for sometime but sells available cargo capacity at rates where they can make money. With the lower operating costs they seek AA may be able to do more business with more competitive cargo rates.

They dumped it in several locations.

I am aware of what was in the TA and retiree medical. The point is, now we will most likely have no retiree medical prefunding and at best pay active rates when we retiree. The MCTs already have that and they got a pay raise that they are not having to give up in BK. We got no pay raise because the TA was voted down and will get the same thing as the MCTs.

Their company match is gone for the MCTs. For some of our guys its a hefty sum.

Yes, management does still have ten holidays. And your point is that we should get it too because it's not fair? That's a great argument!

Arent the ranks of management also affected by outsourcing? On the one hand you are saying that nonunion Delta traded awat jobs for Holidays even though they had the Holidays before the jobs went away and if thats the case what all of a sudden made Delta do that? Was it the fact that AA had lowered costs outside of BK? Its not a question of fairness, its a question of your logic, you claim that workers at AA had to give up vacation to save jobs yet management jobs were also saved however there was no need for them to give up vacation. If one thing was directly related to the other Vaction=Jobs then management would have been required to give them up as well, or settle for less managers, in fact not only did they keep the vacation but they added jobs.

I did not leave it out. OSM/SRPs were a response to how other airlines were getting lower costs through outsourcing in the early 90s. So are you saying we should have outsourced those jobs instead of having SRPs?

Wrong, it wasnt till well after we put SRPs in place that competitors started outsourcing more than AA, of the legacies we outsourced more than anyone else at the time.

Could it be that AA hired because the scope clause required them to keep work inhouse? After all the clause does describe that AA will be able to outsource according to existing practice. That would mean they can't outsource more than they have in the past therefore they needed to hire mechanics. Laying people off or not hiring would require modifications to the work rules or some type of continuous improvement to increase productivity. Kind of like what AA is doing by trying to wipeout all the special LOAs and restrictive language.

Wrong again, read the CR Smith letter, our scope never requires the company to hire more workers. We are entitled to the work we can handle, if we cant handle it, even if its due to a lack of manpower they can send it out, like they did with the 757s. The only reason why the company lost the grievance on the engines is because the company did not discuss it with the union first.