TWU negotiations.........what?

[TWU informer]

I think Bob Owens is wasting his time explaining to the TWU minions that it's the objective of any union, especially a union representing employees of a liars club employer, that preserving pay would be in ALL amt's best interest in lieu of saving lower paid jobs. Let the company fail in it's objective to outsource maintenance. This company has a bad habit of implementing creative maintenance ideas only to find out later that it wasn't cost effective, and then ultimately revert back to something that works or has been working. So, I say to AA, "go ahead and farm out as much as you want......TUL, AFW, DWH, but in exchange you need to pay my remaining AMT's $50/hr. Then, when their plan fails and they want to insource work the amt's will be making $50/hr. That would be my plan, and I think that's what Bob is trying to convey here.

Even if that outsourcing included YOUR job?
Why not outsource other stations? Why just TUL,AFW,DWH?

 

[dfw gen]

Don't forget the money we left on the table....

 

[Duke787]

Are you aware that FEDEX and UPS outsource most of their airframe and engine overhaul unlike AA? That AA will have to layoff thousands of workers to get the remaining ones those wages?

Are you aware that FEDEX and UPS fly cargo and have lower overhead?

Are you aware that you said the $37/hour in the TA was no good and we could get better? That you would rather take your chances with the judge?

Are you aware that all those other airlines that have 10 holidays have outsourced most of their overhaul to cover the cost of those holidays?

Are you aware that if we were like those other airlines that have more VC they only offer it to the remaining people that did not have their jobs outsourced?

Are you aware that you use cherry picked facts to make your arguments?

Are you aware that your predictions have all been artificial and the reality of law has taken over?

Are you aware that Owens speaks for us with the company, and we don't have the ability to vote in his election?

Are you aware that the the vote "NO" coalition has cost us over $15k with their thought process?

Are you aware that same mouth breathers that said vote NO are now saying "Lets take our chance with the judge"?

Are you aware that our well respected BK lawyer that the pilots union tried to hire, has said it is better to get a consensual agreement, and that nothing good will come from an imposed contract?

 

[Duke787]

Bob, I'm not trying to pile on you as I believe that we all have a common goal. Just different points of view. But..........
I still haven't seen any numbers as to how our overall maintenance costs compare to the other AIRLINES. We do the same job as the freight haulers but surely you understand the difference in economics of the two businesses.
If you have numbers that show that our OSMs with full retirement and healthcare benefits as well as overhaul AMTs with the same can produce at the same costs that the other majors are getting either in the U.S. or overseas then please share with us. And I hope Jim Little gets a chance to share with the arbitrators too.
I agree with you that insourcing and keeping overhaul in-house has value that company refuses to aknowledge. It just amazes me that union has been unable to put a value on it. Until then we are at a negotiating disadvantage.

Great post, lets see if we can get a responce with some facts rather then theory.

 

[Overspeed]

So, I say to AA, "go ahead and farm out as much as you want......TUL, AFW, DWH, but in exchange you need to pay my remaining AMT's $50/hr. Then, when their plan fails and they want to insource work the amt's will be making $50/hr. That would be my plan, and I think that's what Bob is trying to convey here.

Thank you Strikeforce. You said exactly what I have been trying to get out of Bob.

And you are right about management. I also seriously doubt that they will be able to execute on all their outsourcing plans.

 

[TWU informer]

If this T/A were to pass we would be leaving alot of money on the table.

Everyone knows you will not get the best deal until the 11th hour of the 29th day.

Retro is still on the table.

 

[strikeforce]

Even if that outsourcing included YOUR job?
Why not outsource other stations? Why just TUL,AFW,DWH?

Outsource any station you want, even line stations. But, when the contractor can't fix your planes don't expect my remaining amt's to bail you out! That's if we stick together and execute that plan. The company is good at one thing......screwing up their own operation, but let's not help them in the process. They want to eliminate avionics, have at it, but then don't expect a current avionics mechanic to bail your ass out later.

 

[Duke787]

I think Bob Owens is wasting his time explaining to the TWU minions that it's the objective of any union, especially a union representing employees of a liars club employer, that preserving pay would be in ALL amt's best interest in lieu of saving lower paid jobs. Let the company fail in it's objective to outsource maintenance. This company has a bad habit of implementing creative maintenance ideas only to find out later that it wasn't cost effective, and then ultimately revert back to something that works or has been working. So, I say to AA, "go ahead and farm out as much as you want......TUL, AFW, DWH, but in exchange you need to pay my remaining AMT's $50/hr. Then, when their plan fails and they want to insource work the amt's will be making $50/hr. That would be my plan, and I think that's what Bob is trying to convey here.

I agree with you, but I'm more in the non union faction, I don't want mechs in TUL effecting my pay because they don't want to work weekends, or some ideological purist not willing to accept anything less then the TWU 2001 contract.

 

[Buck]

First the bean counters will tell the company that they must have their reduced work force. The the aircraft yields which are already in jeopardy will prevail and the same AMT's that the bean counter said must go, will be be needed.

Let's use the welder as a professional position and when his seniority number comes up, does the company keep him at his welding position or does the union force the seniority issue (locally) and push the welder to an A&P position only to require the welding position at a later date?

We have to quit talking like everyone is an AMT and remember that the welder and machinist are required to keep this show going.

At what point will the TWU recognize the need for the special fields?

Even the moniker of A&P General mechanic, which has destroyed the way TUL performs maintenance. There are System mechanics and there Engine mechanics, Cabins and Structure mechanics. When they are lumped into one group effectiveness drops. Just as with an A&P. mechanic who would attempt to weld on Monday and Tuesday then the rest of his 7 day coverage he would work aircraft systems, it is very inefficient.

The company is going to find that needs all of it's skills, however they will find out to late.

 

[Duke787]

Even if that outsourcing included YOUR job?
Why not outsource other stations? Why just TUL,AFW,DWH?

They have already closed CLE, SNA, DTW, and MSP just to name a few.

 

[Buck]

I agree with you, but I'm more in the non union faction, I don't want mechs in TUL effecting my pay because they don't want to work weekends, or some ideological purist not willing to accapt anything less then the TWU 2001 contract.

And I do not want a Fleet Service Clerk affecting my pay either ....

 

[Mr Red]

Are you aware that Owens speaks for us with the company, and we don't have the ability to vote in his election?

Are you aware that the the vote "NO" coalition has cost us over $15k with their thought process?

Are you aware that same mouth breathers that said vote NO are now saying "Lets take our chance with the judge"?

Are you aware that our well respected BK lawyer that the pilots union tried to hire, has said it is better to get a consensual agreement, and that nothing good will come from an imposed contract?

When you say vote NO coalition,you mean the 2/3 of the membership around the system that voted NO! Two dollars in one pocket ten dollars of SHARED SACRIFICE out of the other pocket.

 

[strikeforce]

I agree with you, but I'm more in the non union faction, I don't want mechs in TUL effecting my pay because they don't want to work weekends, or some ideological purist not willing to accapt anything less then the TWU 2001 contract.

Then, you should be all for getting rid of the TWU. Tulsa will always carry the majority block because the TWU knows the Line and AFW will decertify them in a heartbeat. Are you getting compensated for your talent, experience and performance? absolutely NOT! You are getting paid a wage that allows AA to keep 10K mechanics employed. AA will find out the hard way when the outsourcing starts affecting their operation. When they contracted out MSP & DTW, our amt's continually helps the company by going on field trips to bail them out. If that stops....who is AA going to get to fix that plane?? WE are our own worst enemies! When ORD told the company no OT and no Field trips what happened......that's right our own union brothers at other stations went on field trips and worked unlimited OT. You want to show AA how valuable you really are......work by the book, stop taking OT, forget about the CS policy, stop taking field trips, and let them farm out as much as they want. I guarantee you will have leverage over AA that you never imagined was humanly possible. But, it takes a president with some BIG kahunnas to come around and tell you that. Something our presidents don't have!

 

[Buck]

I encourage all line mechanics to bump TUL to rid us from the TWU ...

 

[777 fixer]

Even if that outsourcing included YOUR job?
Why not outsource other stations? Why just TUL,AFW,DWH?

In the past ten years AA has closed SJC, SNA, BNA, MSP, DTW, RNO and Hartford.