TWU negotiations.........what?

[TWU informer]

What the hell is the deal with the personal attacks here anyway?

I know Chuck Schalk well enough to know he is an upstanding person and strong union man. we have our disagreements on some issues, but that doesn't make him an I emenies. And that damn sure doesn't justify personal attack.

If a person has a relationship fail or a second business no longer in operation, that is not a measure of the person.

Everyone here likes to slam me for telling the truth, because I am a welder, because I don't currently hold and A&P, or whatever else they can find to dig up.

How come we cannot just have honest and professional debate without the personal degrading?

Understand this so as to put this in perspective.

I dont have an A&P
I voted YES on the TA
I supported AMFA
I hate the TWU
I had a sports photography business that is longer happening.
I have worked a second job.
I disagree with Bob Owens on many issues.

And get this, I am damn proud of every statement above!

And yet ragrdless of that, I care more about Bob and Chuck than any weasle that wants to personally attack them or me.

Why not just accept the fact that many men have died in battle to insure our right to disagree, our freedom of opinion?
Why not support your personal opinion with factual information instead of name calling and personal attacks?

The chidlish behavior of our work group is our number one problem and our largest hurdle to overcome, then the rest falls after that.

 

[wrencher]

What the hell is the deal with the personal attacks here anyway?

I know Chuck Schalk well enough to know he is an upstanding person and strong union man. we have our disagreements on some issues, but that doesn't make him an I emenies. And that damn sure doesn't justify personal attack.

If a person has a relationship fail or a second business no longer in operation, that is not a measure of the person.

Everyone here likes to slam me for telling the truth, because I am a welder, because I don't currently hold and A&P, or whatever else they can find to dig up.

How come we cannot just have honest and professional debate without the personal degrading?

Understand this so as to put this in perspective.

I dont have an A&P
I voted YES on the TA
I supported AMFA
I hate the TWU
I had a sports photography business that is longer happening.
I have worked a second job.
I disagree with Bob Owens on many issues.

And get this, I am damn proud of every statement above!

And yet ragrdless of that, I care more about Bob and Chuck than any weasle that wants to personally attack them or me.

Why not just accept the fact that many men have died in battle to insure our right to disagree, our freedom of opinion?
Why not support your personal opinion with factual information instead of name calling and personal attacks?

The chidlish behavior of our work group is our number one problem and our largest hurdle to overcome, then the rest falls after that.

I could not have spoken it better and I agree with you, I know Chuck personally and there is no other man I can think of that I would trust to lead the fight that is comeing to all of us in the near term. Thanks Chuck,Bob and Ken for all your sacrifices for our trade.

 

[Buck]

Ah shucks Buck, that really hurt.... :huh:

Your welcome....

 

[Duke787]

Why not support your personal opinion with factual information instead of name calling and personal attacks?

The chidlish behavior of our work group is our number one problem and our largest hurdle to overcome, then the rest falls after that.

You need to put the crack pipe down and look at reality,

And the day I think you are getting $45 per hour, I will get my A&P license and bump your ass with my 1983 Seniority

How much is sleeping, surfing net on laptops, or hanging out on nights, weekends, and Holidays, while CS'ing and being off 4-5 days at a time without burning VC....

I have no desire to engage in an emotional arguement with fools.

These are all qoutes from you, spent about 3 min on this, didn't think this deserved more time then that. Try doing what you say, and I agree with you about the name calling/personal attacks, and the childish behavior.

 

[TWU informer]

You need to put the crack pipe down and look at reality,

And the day I think you are getting $45 per hour, I will get my A&P license and bump your ass with my 1983 Seniority

How much is sleeping, surfing net on laptops, or hanging out on nights, weekends, and Holidays, while CS'ing and being off 4-5 days at a time without burning VC....

I have no desire to engage in an emotional arguement with fools.

These are all qoutes from you, spent about 3 min on this, didn't think this deserved more time then that. Try doing what you say, and I agree with you about the name calling/personal attacks, and the childish behavior.

And those are all quotes of mine debating my opinions a without personal attacks.
And so now you want to debate what a personal attack is?

Maybe you define personal attack different than I do. But you are entitled to your wrong definition.


Try this, a personal attack is something that singles out one individual's personal life i.e. personal business, relationships, personal failures.

On the other hand talking in general terms about the group, or even a heated debate or arguement with an individual is not a personal attack.

Specific examples of personal attacks include but are not limited to:

Accusatory comments such as "Bob is a troll", or "Jane is a bad editor" can be considered personal attacks if said repeatedly, in bad faith, or with sufficient venom.

Negative personal comments and "I'm better than you" attacks, such as "You have no life."

Racial, sexual, homophobic, religious or ethnic epithets directed against another contributor.

Religious epithets even if the contributor is a member of a purported cult.

Using someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views - regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream or extreme.

Profanity directed against another contributor.

Threats of legal action

Death threats.


Can you understand that? Or is it over your head?
Are we going to begin another meaningless emotional arguement again?

 

[Duke787]

Does anyone know what TIMCO is going to charge AA to do the 757 check? And how much would it cost for AA to do the same check in house with all the associated costs like payroll, health ins, pension, facility costs, all that stuff. Including the time the a/c is OTS, as I understand it TUL does the checks days faster then TIMCO.

 

[787nightmare]

Well let me see, from the most part covering the history of my posts I seem to support the TWU. So I guess you could say that I'm a true believer in the TWU and Its constitution B)

Is this what you asked for 787? Oh, and welcome back to Tulsa....

Well I gathered you were a faithful twu officer, er...follower. Just wanted full confirmation.
Tell me(curious again)...what exactly is it that you find in the twu to be proud of and thus so supportive & defensive?
Thanks for the welcome back. Good to go home everynight, instead of a rented room.
But I'm kicking myself in the ass now for agreeing to going back to $20/hr starting ALL over on the payscale to come to this struggling carrier that has it's employees moral in the toilet.
This starting wage here is pathetic...and needs corrected desperately.

 

[eolesen]

Does anyone know what TIMCO is going to charge AA to do the 757 check? And how much would it cost for AA to do the same check in house with all the associated costs like payroll, health ins, pension, facility costs, all that stuff. Including the time the a/c is OTS, as I understand it TUL does the checks days faster then TIMCO.

Depends on how fast TUL decides to work... and no, I don't have the fully loaded cost-outs for AA or the TIMCO proposal.

Just guessing, at 22 days, it's probably cheaper to in-source.

If it takes 28-30 days (which is what I've been hearing), then the cost of TIMCO's 35 day turn is probably less.

And, if for some reason TIMCO winds up taking 40 days, (other than perhaps something like unexpected structural damage or excessive corrosion?) AA doesn't pay the overage.

Right now, AA's carrying the cost of those extra 6-8 days regardless of the cause.

 

[Duke787]

When you really think about it, twa people where lucky AA took all that baggae on for so long. they could have just payed for the routes and been done with it. I don't mean to sound cold hearted, but that deal dragged AA down alot , because United passed on taking USair

I hope someone does the same for us when we are geting shoved out the door i.e bankruptys equals USair think they are going to take all of us? They may if we go BR and are contracts are thrown to the wind ( which for the most part they have!!!!)

God forbid AA goes BK, first thing I think would happen TUL/AFW get spun off to AMR services, AA parks all the S80s then who ever is left at AA will be brought into USair after the hostile takeover, hopefully we'll get as good as deal as the TWA mechs (our seniority at DFW,LAX,ORD,MIA and other main sta) if we're lucky

 

[Frank Szabo]

Well I gathered you were a faithful twu officer, er...follower. Just wanted full confirmation.
Tell me(curious again)...what exactly is it that you find in the twu to be proud of and thus so supportive & defensive?
Thanks for the welcome back. Good to go home everynight, instead of a rented room.
But I'm kicking myself in the ass now for agreeing to going back to $20/hr starting ALL over on the payscale to come to this struggling carrier that has it's employees moral in the toilet.
This starting wage here is pathetic...and needs corrected desperately.

That's the problem with being an aircraft mechanic - you need aircraft to work on.

Why did you come back for a piss-poor wage, anyway? I can't see a thing in Oklahoma or Texas that's worth working for that little (no pun intended) - never could.

FYI - I'm in Okiehoma due a string of poor choices I made years ago but eventual retirement from AA will allow me to rectify that problem.

 

[787nightmare]

That's the problem with being an aircraft mechanic - you need aircraft to work on.

Why did you come back for a piss-poor wage, anyway? I can't see a thing in Oklahoma or Texas that's worth working for that little (no pun intended) - never could.

FYI - I'm in Okiehoma due a string of poor choices I made years ago but eventual retirement from AA will allow me to rectify that problem.

Frank, I had to come back because:
A) wife wouldve been miserable/didn't want to leave Tulsa
B) Puget Sound area WAY too liberal for me
C)" area way too expensive
D) ex-airline mechs are a bad fit at the lazy B(was told this before I went)
E) pretty much had to go to Boe-was a sch at AA before-no chance of getting mech posi
F)all the mech jobs at WN, UP, AK or DL are still fairly competitive. AA TULE apparently wasn't that attractive to many exp mechs.hence the long ext posting duration for TULE
G)at this juncture/age, I have to think about my retirement & getting a home paid off. Decisions are a bit more critical than say, a 30 y/o guy.-but the wife factor/ SEA thing was major issues.

 

[787nightmare]

Btw, I agree completely.
I'm basically "stuck", & I'm not getting any younger :-/

 

[eolesen]

God forbid AA goes BK, first thing I think would happen TUL/AFW get spun off to AMR services,

You do realize that AMR Services was sold in 1999, right?...

 

[Buck]

Depends on how fast TUL decides to work... and no, I don't have the fully loaded cost-outs for AA or the TIMCO proposal.

Just guessing, at 22 days, it's probably cheaper to in-source.

If it takes 28-30 days (which is what I've been hearing), then the cost of TIMCO's 35 day turn is probably less.

And, if for some reason TIMCO winds up taking 40 days, (other than perhaps something like unexpected structural damage or excessive corrosion?) AA doesn't pay the overage.

Right now, AA's carrying the cost of those extra 6-8 days regardless of the cause.

Good numbers, however the average check is suspossed to be 30 days, meaning some are scheduled for 35 while others are 28. OF course it depends on the original package and what TIMCO finds.

 

[Buck]

Forced to stay? No one is forced to stay anywhwere, it is a choice.