TWU negotiations.........what?

[Chuck Schalk]

Bob, I just noticed the time stamp. How can you be negotiating a contract with all these great things you are going to get us if you are posting on this website. Aren't you supposed to be negotiating right now? Stores is meeting this week on the west coast. Wasting members money I see. Why did they pay you to go out there if you are either positing on this website about your manifesto and out of context facts, playing Airline Mogul like Luis said, or maybe even doing something as benign as playing on FB.

I hope 562 members hold you accountable for all the money and time you are wasting.

Our President Bob Owens has our support and we stand behind him. You high speed talk alot but say only a little. You are the guy who yells from the upper deck thinking anyone hears him. Tell me your great or failed accomplishments in bettering our fellow union members?
with all your great intellect your spew you must have contributed to the cause in some way.
Cricket.........cricket........... I await to hear your response.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Worked my arse off yesterday in the avionics shop saving the airline, and I couldn't comment, but how does any employee, athlete, doctor, or executive calculate their market rate......they usually go after the highest wage available in that industry amongst the peers. How did Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees come to the conclusion that he was worth 250M over 10yrs??? He must of compared himself to some other ball player, right??? If we use your analogy where financial conditions of the company purely set wages then Gerard Arpey owes AA for his services. Instead, AA is losing hundreds of millions per qtr, and has accumulated 12B in debt, and he still pulls in millions based on the pay performance of his PEERS! E and others have argued his pay on this forum and I believe they said Arpey's pay was IN LINE with what most CEO's make in the airline industry.....therefore, if it's good enough for Arpey to base his pay on what CEO's at UA, CO, and DL make, then Line mechanics should be able to set our wages to what WN, UPS & Fed Ex line mechanics make. Now, whether we get that is to be determined.

Glad you were able to take the time to post. I tried through Duke 787 to find where you and he could define what the market rate is for an A&P mechanic serving the busiest airport in the US or by where your employer has shown the need for the most staffing of your peers. I see that neither of you have any real data to support your claim to fame and your posts clearly point to "dump overhaul to make me famous"...

To quote Informer from an earlier post.

All this time I thought "market rates" for living standards were what was being used as a basis for GEO PAY.
Stupid me.

Informer must have seen what I've seen. Bob Owens has proposed to support a market rate for folks like you and Duke 787. What is being supported is the ACCRA cost of living index for employee's living in cities of varying standards of living staffed with M&R employees of AA. This is GEO pay, not based on the need of the A&P. Perhaps you need to take up your gripe with Bob because I'm only seeing the facts as they are presented. Besides. If your city qualifies, this would be additional monies proposed to coincide with the line premium you have already turned down...

GEO Pay.
Stupid me.

 

[odie01]

Glad you were able to take the time to post. I tried through Duke 787 to find where you and he could define what the market rate is for an A&P mechanic serving the busiest airport in the US or by where your employer has shown the need for the most staffing of your peers. I see that neither of you have any real data to support your claim to fame and your posts clearly point to "dump overhaul to make me famous"...

To quote Informer from an earlier post.

All this time I thought "market rates" for living standards were what was being used as a basis for GEO PAY.
Stupid me.

Informer must have seen what I've seen. Bob Owens has proposed to support a market rate for folks like you and Duke 787. What is being supported is the ACCRA cost of living index for employee's living in cities with varying standards of living staffed with M&R employees of AA. This is GEO pay, not based on the need of the A&P. Perhaps you need to take up your gripe with Bob because I'm only seeing the facts as they are presented. Besides. If your city qualifies, this would be additional monies proposed to coincide with the line premium you have already turned down...

GEO Pay.
Stupid me.

The mechanics and related need to seperate from the unskilled labor to negotiate a fair wage for what we are worth, with the twu this is impossible. Bob Owens, Larry Pike, JR, and the rest of our negotiating team that voted to be released , need to plan a campaign to dethrone the twu after we get our TA. Bob, you are well respected throughout the system, and would have success leading this movement, even if you are removed from office. Like the men and women sleeping on Wall St., we have had enough!

 

[Overspeed]

Our President Bob Owens has our support and we stand behind him. You high speed talk alot but say only a little. You are the guy who yells from the upper deck thinking anyone hears him. Tell me your great or failed accomplishments in bettering our fellow union members?
with all your great intellect your spew you must have contributed to the cause in some way.
Cricket.........cricket........... I await to hear your response.

Chuck, so nice to here from you. Are you still running your construction business and marriage counseling while under the auspices of working for the union on company time?

 

[paul1]

The mechanics and related need to seperate from the unskilled labor to negotiate a fair wage for what we are worth, with the twu this is impossible. Bob Owens, Larry Pike, JR, and the rest of our negotiating team that voted to be released , need to plan a campaign to dethrone the twu after we get our TA. Bob, you are well respected throughout the system, and would have success leading this movement, even if you are removed from office. Like the men and women sleeping on Wall St., we have had enough!

we are unskilled labor (yes us with are A&P) thats where the real problem starts

 

[odie01]

we are unskilled labor (yes us with are A&P) thats where the real problem starts

If you feel that way then you can stay with the baggage handlers and card dealers. The problem starts with scared individuals like yourself, because all you are trusted to do is change a reading light at 32B and add 2 pts to no. 1, that is if your a mechanic????????

 

[odie01]

Chuck, so nice to here from you. Are you still running your construction business and marriage counseling while under the auspices of working for the union on company time?

And what are you doing, more than likely your sucking up a check from the twu and aa. DW!

 

[strikeforce]

Glad you were able to take the time to post. I tried through Duke 787 to find where you and he could define what the market rate is for an A&P mechanic serving the busiest airport in the US or by where your employer has shown the need for the most staffing of your peers. I see that neither of you have any real data to support your claim to fame and your posts clearly point to "dump overhaul to make me famous"...

To quote Informer from an earlier post.

All this time I thought "market rates" for living standards were what was being used as a basis for GEO PAY.
Stupid me.

Informer must have seen what I've seen. Bob Owens has proposed to support a market rate for folks like you and Duke 787. What is being supported is the ACCRA cost of living index for employee's living in cities of varying standards of living staffed with M&R employees of AA. This is GEO pay, not based on the need of the A&P. Perhaps you need to take up your gripe with Bob because I'm only seeing the facts as they are presented. Besides. If your city qualifies, this would be additional monies proposed to coincide with the line premium you have already turned down...

GEO Pay.
Stupid me.

The line mechanics at WN work at secondary airports and are making $45 an hour, and UPS, Fed Ex work at airports served by AA, and make $46-51. Therefore, I answered your question. You, on the other hand are making above the market rate for OH mechanics throughout the united states. How much are the OH mechanics making at Timco.....your competitor, remember. The mechanics at Tulsa just screwed themselves because the 4 757 is just the start. The company originally wanted to outsource 10 and somehow AA settled for 4, but your save team didn't come close to saving the company money on the cost outs.....I read jetnet the other day and the TWU actually would have cost the company more by idling the Maui line and all the other stuff you guys threw at the company. So, in theory the TWU is not very competitive in Tulsa, and it's just another reason why AA will farm out more work. Mind you, it's just my opinion.

The ACCRA is the old TWU way of thinking. I like to think outside the box....something that's outside your realm of thinking. This is 2011....wake up.....I've been shortchanged by the TWU long enough....it's time for the Line mechanics to wake up and see that there's more earnings potential out there thanks to AMFA at WN and IBT at UPS, and the non-union mechanics at Fed Ex.
We can longer afford to stick with the stagnant old TWU theory of "a mechanic is a mechanic" won't fly anymore. Tulsa can either help the Line or you can challenge the Line....it's your choice.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Chuck, so nice to here from you. Are you still running your construction business and marriage counseling while under the auspices of working for the union on company time?

You dodged my question "what have you ever done to help all your fellow union members in a failed attempt or successfully"? Talk is cheap, speak of your accomplishments........cricket.........cricket........

my construction business is long gone, nice research einstein!

just so you know, I am a working Vice President. I report to my crew every day and get assignments like everyone else.

 

[paul1]

If you feel that way then you can stay with the baggage handlers and card dealers. The problem starts with scared individuals like yourself, because all you are trusted to do is change a reading light at 32B and add 2 pts to no. 1, that is if your a mechanic????????

thats how the goverment ranks us. I think you have a lot to learn.

 

[eolesen]

E and others have argued [Arpey's] pay on this forum and I believe they said Arpey's pay was IN LINE with what most CEO's make in the airline industry.

If you're going to pin something on me, at least be accurate.

Last time I looked, Arpey's guaranteed pay was well below most other airline CEO's. It's around 10x or less of the average front line employee. Nancy was posting last week how 10x is the norm in Japan, while 100x is the norm in the US.

When you start throwing variable compensation into the mix, Arpey moved up a notch or two in years past, but was still at #371 out of the Forbes 500 last year. That's all at-risk compensation, something you guys don't want to entertain. I haven't updated my exec compensation comparisons in a year or so. Maybe something for the weekend...

But, I've also said it's a red herring to focus on that instead of your own contract...

 

[strikeforce]

If you're going to pin something on me, at least be accurate.

Last time I looked, Arpey's guaranteed pay was well below most other airline CEO's. It's around 10x or less of the average front line employee. Nancy was posting last week how 10x is the norm in Japan, while 100x is the norm in the US.

When you start throwing variable compensation into the mix, Arpey moved up a notch or two in years past, but was still at #371 out of the Forbes 500 last year. That's all at-risk compensation, something you guys don't want to entertain. I haven't updated my exec compensation comparisons in a year or so. Maybe something for the weekend...

But, I've also said it's a red herring to focus on that instead of your own contract...

Why? Oh, I see it's good for CEO's and executives to compare pay but not the workers?? Does it really matter if their pay is at risk or not? It's not the point. They still compare their pay to their peers within the industry, right? The company shouldn't be surprised when WE compare ourselves to WN, UPS and Fed EX. We do the same work on the line....which is placarding during the flying day and fixing at night!

 

[Buck]

R. The Company’s pay philosophy is to pay all employees market based wages and desires to be consistent with this philosophy for all employees. In a mutual desire to confirm our commitment, the Company and AMFA agree to open the contract on an annual basis, within thirty days of the anniversary date of the Agreement, to review the mechanics relative position both within the Company and the Market.

The Company agrees that if the mechanics’ wages fall below the middle of the market, as defined below, the Company will adjust the wage scale to the middle of the market as defined below. However, the annual increase will not be less than one and one-half (1½) percent above the current year’s rates.This “market based” methodology is only for determining rates of pay for the out-years in this 2011 through 2016 Agreement. It is not intended to reflect the methodology for determining rates of pay in future negotiations on subsequent Agreements.

Current Comparator Carriers used in defining the market:

Southwest, Jet Blue, Continental, American, Frontier, Delta, United, US Air, and Air Tran.

In the event one of the carriers ceases to exist they will be removed from the list. However, any major domestic carrier (passenger) as defined by the U.S. Department of Transportation, effective the date of the review, and the Company’s primary competitors will be added.

When ranking in the “middle” Alaska will be placed precisely in between the two data points of the carriers ranking above and the carrier ranking just below the mid-point.

The “all in rate” will be used for the calculation of the mid-point. “All in rate” is defined as including: base pay, license premiums, line premium and longevity at the top of each of these scales.

 

[OldBubba]

LOL Wake-up!
If the union would have not layed down in the early 80's there would be no Line vs overhaul!!! So go ahead kick the overhaul to road! Then ( to feed my family ) I'll do line work cheaper than you! LOL Then you scream an kick because your getting bust in about 5 years, who well come to your aid? Not the union thats for sure and I won't either. Stop thinking about just yourself and start think about your kids!

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip

Last time I looked, Arpey's guaranteed pay was well below most other airline CEO's. It's around 10x or less of the average front line employee. Nancy was posting last week how 10x is the norm in Japan, while 100x is the norm in the US.

... snip

His pay is "well below" that of other airline CEOs simply because he's proven himself not to be worth the big bucks. To keep his job, he should be paying the company, based on his performance.

Time to quit blaming others for one's shortcomings and begin managing the company as if it's more than a joke and a hobby that pays well for some. Labor is not and never has been the problem - the problem is a lack of vision and the need to tell lies to maintain "control". Keeping the employees riled at all times and to promote hate and discontent within the ranks does nothing to promote the cohesiveness required in an operation the size of American's.

Southwest has this cohesiveness - why would that be? Could it be the employee is valued as part of the team and the company isn't conniving with the unions on the property to exert control (or their version of control) over the employees, making their employment a continual game of chess for the executives?

Liars all, they are, both company and unions (my "YodaSpeak" for the day).