TWU negotiations.........what?

[Mechanic]

Again, if the CEO of AA doesn't even know if it's cheaper to outsource, how can you know? We may get a ballpark estimate with the limited Timco contract, although they may initially choose to "break even" in order to get future work. Only a protracted relationship would be accurate. AA has the most extensive maintenance capabilities under one roof than any other facility in the world and is staffed with trained personnel. Your right, it's financially impractical for AA to do their own maintenance as the amount of waste from mismanagement, union interference, and low morale is staggering. An efficiently ran facility of this caliber would be priceless to any airline as outsourcing removes most of the control an airline has to maintain tight turn times, quality, and extended contract costs.

True as long as efficiently run equates to being able to turn an aircraft as cost effective as Timco. We have probably the top maintenance facility anywhere but it's not cost effective. We have now 757's being outsourced while our trained personal are fishing on the weekends. AA has no leadership and we all know that. ORD is a prime example of that. Nobody want to be responsible or hold anybody accountable for ANYTHING they do or don't do. 4-10's here have never worked. As all it means is hey I get to sleep for 2 more hours. Station Management wont change that because they don't want anybody upset! I'm getting off track, sorry but it's line also with no leadership.





Reminds me of the scene in "Dancing With Wolves" when the union army is pinned down by an inferior rebel force, the brass watching from a hilltop without a clue how to gain a tactical advantage. Likewise, AA is devoid of the leadership skills to overcome this obstacle.

 

[Birdman]

True as long as efficiently run equates to being able to turn an aircraft as cost effective as Timco. We have probably the top maintenance facility anywhere but it's not cost effective. We have now 757's being outsourced while our trained personal are fishing on the weekends.

It doesn't have to be as cost effective. If your bent on maintaining control and want your a/c dependably in service when it leaves the facility it may cost more, but satisfaction is achieved. Everyone is partly responsible for the outsourcing but who's in charge? Weekend coverage is not the solution as leadership and more productivity during the week would suffice.

 

[Mechanic]

It doesn't have to be as cost effective. If your bent on maintaining control and want your a/c dependably in service when it leaves the facility it may cost more, but satisfaction is achieved. Everyone is partly responsible for the outsourcing but who's in charge? Weekend coverage is not the solution as leadership and more productivity during the week would suffice.

What??? Satisfaction has no monetary value and yes it does have to be as cost effective or Tulsa will be a memory. Is the company exceeding the limits of outsourcing blessed by our wonderful union. Probably not. Yea and weekend coverage is not the solution while we have planes at Timco. If we were bent on maintaining control and want our acft dependable Tulsa would be on 24/7. They are not and will soon be 24/0. All the other airlines use 3rd party maintenance and fly their schedules and MAKE MONEY. You can't pay overhaul line main rates. Just a little advice: When you go to 24/0 and bump to ORD bring your gloves and boots. It gets very cold here! And yes we work 24/7. Even on Xmas.

 

[Birdman]

What??? Satisfaction has no monetary value and yes it does have to be as cost effective or Tulsa will be a memory. Is the company exceeding the limits of outsourcing blessed by our wonderful union. Probably not. Yea and weekend coverage is not the solution while we have planes at Timco. If we were bent on maintaining control and want our acft dependable Tulsa would be on 24/7. They are not and will soon be 24/0. All the other airlines use 3rd party maintenance and fly their schedules and MAKE MONEY. You can't pay overhaul line main rates. Just a little advice: When you go to 24/0 and bump to ORD bring your gloves and boots. It gets very cold here! And yes we work 24/7. Even on Xmas.

I'm getting the picture from ORD that has "animosity" written all over it. Your in good company with Strikeforce. Additional maintenance after an MRO visit is lost value and less dependability is lost value, so I deduct that satisfaction has value. If the horror stories are unfounded I stand corrected. O/H has been an asset to AA for many years and can be once again.

Your 24/7 argument has no merit as you can't say there are no mechanics on the line that don't have straight days and weekends off. Are they exempt from your wrath? If it makes you feel any better I'm all for COLA.

 

[Duke787]

I'm getting the picture from ORD that has "animosity" written all over it. Your in good company with Strikeforce. Additional maintenance after an MRO visit is lost value and less dependability is lost value, so I deduct that satisfaction has value. If the horror stories are unfounded I stand corrected. O/H has been an asset to AA for many years and can be once again.

Your 24/7 argument has no merit as you can't say there are no mechanics on the line that don't have straight days and weekends off. Are they exempt from your wrath? If it makes you feel any better I'm all for COLA.

There are no ORD mechs with straight days and weekends off, we rotate days off, everybody rotates. O/H might be an asset and the work from there is second to none, but other airlines are making money with 3rd party maint. don't think AA can't get by without you, Four AA 757's going to TIMCO, and UAL, DAL, SWA, Jetblue aircraft fly every day with 3rd party maint doing their OH. If OH wants weekends off the line mechs shouldn't have to sacrifice pay for a benefit only OH gets.


It's not just M&E our flight crews fly less hours then the other airlines and our flights have more F/A bid positions then other airlines. a USair 767 has 5 FA's a AA 767 has 9 FA's. A USair A330 holds 335 pax an AA 767 holds 219 pax, both have 9 FA's, and I wouldn't doubt our FA's make more money fly less hours with better insurance and a pension.

 

[Duke787]

How about the TWU gives AA whatever productivity rules they want short of farming out work, and in return, we would be paid at $45 an hour.

 

[strikeforce]

I'm getting the picture from ORD that has "animosity" written all over it. Your in good company with Strikeforce. Additional maintenance after an MRO visit is lost value and less dependability is lost value, so I deduct that satisfaction has value. If the horror stories are unfounded I stand corrected. O/H has been an asset to AA for many years and can be once again.

Your 24/7 argument has no merit as you can't say there are no mechanics on the line that don't have straight days and weekends off. Are they exempt from your wrath? If it makes you feel any better I'm all for COLA.

The wrath of my rants have been pointed mostly at the leadership of the TWU. Having secret informal negotiations doesn't help but fuel more speculations that AA and the INTL are setting US up for more failures.

TUL, Fleet and other work groups have dictated my pay for 21 years now, and I'm tired of it. GEO pay, Line pay and MRT should be set by each individual local union and not by someone that doesn't live in my city. That's probably one of the reason's why TUL and Fleet don't have the backing from Line station mechanics.

 

[Birdman]

There are no ORD mechs with straight days and weekends off, we rotate days off, everybody rotates.

My bad. Are there no "pot luck" options for those who want to stay on days in leiu of those prefering the undesirable shift?

O/H might be an asset and the work from there is second to none, but other airlines are making money with 3rd party maint. don't think AA can't get by without you, Four AA 757's going to TIMCO, and UAL, DAL, SWA, Jetblue aircraft fly every day with 3rd party maint doing their OH.

I've seen no one claim Tulsa is the center of the universe. The fact is we can't be replaced right now as there is little MRO space available. If they want to farm out in the future because it's cheaper they should for the good of the compAAny. Attrition, BK, or a LOA could speed the process if they so choose but that alone will not return AA to profitability, like their competition.

If OH wants weekends off the line mechs shouldn't have to sacrifice pay for a benefit only OH gets.

I agree that there should be a substantial line premium and COLA adjustment. We're not only holding the line on weekends for ourselves, but for those of you on the line that want to live large in Tulsa, as there are openings available.

 

[Mechanic]

My bad. Are there no "pot luck" options for those who want to stay on days in leiu of those prefering the undesirable shift?


I've seen no one claim Tulsa is the center of the universe. The fact is we can't be replaced right now as there is little MRO space available. If they want to farm out in the future because it's cheaper they should for the good of the compAAny. Attrition, BK, or a LOA could speed the process if they so choose but that alone will not return AA to profitability, like their competition.


I agree that there should be a substantial line premium and COLA adjustment. We're not only holding the line on weekends for ourselves, but for this of you on the line that want to live large in Tulsa, as there are openings available.

Once they turn Tulsa into a MRO there will be plenty of space available and plenty of trained and qualified mechanics paid at MRO rates as it should be. Only then will line get the pay we deserve.
Take lots of pictures of Tulsa for your scrapbook. Your days are numbered and you have nobody to blame but yourselves. Enjoy your weekend!

 

[odie01]

Once they turn Tulsa into a MRO there will be plenty of space available and plenty of trained and qualified mechanics paid at MRO rates as it should be. Only then will line get the pay we deserve.
Take lots of pictures of Tulsa for your scrapbook. Your days are numbered and you have nobody to blame but yourselves. Enjoy your weekend!

And you can take alot of pictures sitting in the left seat playing throttle jockey, because all of us with 20+years are comming back to the line with our seniority. Ignorance, my head hurts!

 

[Buck]

How about the TWU gives AA whatever productivity rules they want short of farming out work, and in return, we would be paid at $45 an hour.

Why would the TWU let the company fall for that, brother? The company can have all of productivity rules they want for less now.

 

[Hackman]

Why would the TWU let the company fall for that, brother? The company can have all of productivity rules they want for less now.

Ain't that the truth. The company says boo and Duck787 is on his knees....in a sniveling mess.

 

[Hopeful]

And you can take alot of pictures sitting in the left seat playing throttle jockey, because all of us with 20+years are comming back to the line with our seniority. Ignorance, my head hurts!

Did you tell your wife and family you'll be coming to NY so you could pay $12000 in property and school taxes? How about $5000-$7000 a year for heat and electricity? How about $3000 insurance for two cars?

CMON DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

The wrath of my rants have been pointed mostly at the leadership of the TWU. Having secret informal negotiations doesn't help but fuel more speculations that AA and the INTL are setting US up for more failures.

TUL, Fleet and other work groups have dictated my pay for 21 years now, and I'm tired of it. GEO pay, Line pay and MRT should be set by each individual local union and not by someone that doesn't live in my city. That's probably one of the reason's why TUL and Fleet don't have the backing from Line station mechanics.

While Tulsa is still the largest local, by far, the fact is that Tulsa has not had the super majority for years.

 

[FWAAA]

Did you tell your wife and family you'll be coming to NY so you could pay $12000 in property and school taxes? How about $5000-$7000 a year for heat and electricity? How about $3000 insurance for two cars?

CMON DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No kidding. I'll bet there are plenty of people in Tulsa and Fort Worth who have no idea how nice they have it (and how nice they've had it for many years) compared to employees in the higher-cost cities.

In addition to the major things you listed, how about houses that range from three to five times more expensive than they are in Tulsa or the metroplex?

$50/hr in many of AA's high-cost cities would still not permit employees anywhere near the same standard of living as the current wage allows in OK and TX.