Well I think I said it before but the fact is that CASMs, RASMs and all those other acronyms are made up as well and in reaility none of them really matter because all we really need to know is what we should charge for our labor and labor is the only group that makes the mistake of even entertaining these arguments and discussions. Do the oil companies care? Do the airports care? Do the parts suppliers care? No, they extract the best deal possible based on what other sellers charge for the same product. A PEB won't care either. Right now there are over 50 airline labor contracts in mediation. We happen to be the furthest along of the majors. Whatever we settle for will be the starting point for the next carrier to follow, so no matter how much we get the disadvantage for AA won't last long. The Continental contract was a transitional agreement so that one really doesn't count,the rest are either non-union or open. That leaves two contracts where to compare with, UPS and WN.
TWU negotiations.........what?
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
- Start date
comatose
Senior
Anyone have any details from the AMFA TA with Alaska Airlines?
Obviously you don't try hard enough! I'm sure my peers knew what I meant.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
Yep, and the whole world knew what W meant when he said "nukuler" but still don't quite know what "is" is when Clinton speaks...
ASM, CPI and cost of living are just made up terms, too. Does that mean they don't apply?
Like it or not, economic law applies to a labor contract. Costs can't exceed revenues anymore than takeoffs should exceed landings.
You can try to deflect with your Henry Hil "FU, pay me" argument, but in the end, what you are able to extract has to be sustainable. Right now, it ain't.
ASM, CPI and cost of living are just made up terms, too. Does that mean they don't apply?
Like it or not, economic law applies to a labor contract. Costs can't exceed revenues anymore than takeoffs should exceed landings.
You can try to deflect with your Henry Hil "FU, pay me" argument, but in the end, what you are able to extract has to be sustainable. Right now, it ain't.
AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
- 4,627
- 2,242
....and what the company keeps on wanting to "extract" from us not sustainable either e! We will see who blinks first!
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
Seriously, what of a tangible/monetary value has AA suggested taken away in any of the proposals?
Paying more for healthcare, or getting less coverage?
Wake up already... you guys are headed for Obamacare. Unless the TWU managed to get a waiver from Obamacare (doubtful because I haven't seen any reference to it in the past two years, and supposedly the waiver pad is now empty), then it wouldn't surprise me if the AMR plan is close to (if not over) the threshold ($8500 per employee) to be considered a Cadillac plan. Especially with all the retirees and senior employees. And at that point, it's probably far cheaper to pay the penalty for not offering healthcare and forcing you guys into "government run" healthcare.
I've heard a few unionists supporting the notion of fewer jobs for higher pay is better than more jobs and mediocre pay. Seems to me the latter is what you got stuck with in 2003. Y'all got hung up on job security (or, the TWU got hung up on dues security).
If you're as confident in the quality from insourcing vs. the expense of outsourcing, then call their bluff. Give them the language which lets them outsource, and demand higher pay for the survivors.
If you're right that the quality sucks and will cost more, then it's just a matter of time before work starts to come back in house. At worst, the survivors will have good pay and lots of overtime to correct the mistakes coming back from China and El Salvador.
The cynic in me says the real reason some of you aren't willing to take that bet is you're afraid (or you know) that maybe all the arguments about quality and the true expense of outsourcing we've had here for eight years perhaps aren't quite as grounded on fact as some have made it out to be...
Paying more for healthcare, or getting less coverage?
Wake up already... you guys are headed for Obamacare. Unless the TWU managed to get a waiver from Obamacare (doubtful because I haven't seen any reference to it in the past two years, and supposedly the waiver pad is now empty), then it wouldn't surprise me if the AMR plan is close to (if not over) the threshold ($8500 per employee) to be considered a Cadillac plan. Especially with all the retirees and senior employees. And at that point, it's probably far cheaper to pay the penalty for not offering healthcare and forcing you guys into "government run" healthcare.
I've heard a few unionists supporting the notion of fewer jobs for higher pay is better than more jobs and mediocre pay. Seems to me the latter is what you got stuck with in 2003. Y'all got hung up on job security (or, the TWU got hung up on dues security).
If you're as confident in the quality from insourcing vs. the expense of outsourcing, then call their bluff. Give them the language which lets them outsource, and demand higher pay for the survivors.
If you're right that the quality sucks and will cost more, then it's just a matter of time before work starts to come back in house. At worst, the survivors will have good pay and lots of overtime to correct the mistakes coming back from China and El Salvador.
The cynic in me says the real reason some of you aren't willing to take that bet is you're afraid (or you know) that maybe all the arguments about quality and the true expense of outsourcing we've had here for eight years perhaps aren't quite as grounded on fact as some have made it out to be...
odie01
Veteran
- May 11, 2010
- 1,321
- 473
Looks like the twu is going to let Timco do some of our work. GO TWU !!!!
GREENSBORO, N.C. (WGHP)— TIMCO announced Friday its plans to hire 100 more workers by the end of 2011.
The airplane maintenance company, located at Piedmont Triad International Airport, signed a major airline for a new contract earlier this week.
Copyright © 2011, WGHP-TV
wghp-story-timco-jobs-110923
GREENSBORO, N.C. (WGHP)— TIMCO announced Friday its plans to hire 100 more workers by the end of 2011.
The airplane maintenance company, located at Piedmont Triad International Airport, signed a major airline for a new contract earlier this week.
Copyright © 2011, WGHP-TV
wghp-story-timco-jobs-110923
strikeforce
Veteran
- Jan 18, 2011
- 1,224
- 253
I guess the company wasn't bluffing! Beginning of the end for Tulsa......and maybe aircraft maintenance all together????
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
May be, however I need some more info. What is the cost to the company to run each of the maintenance bases? Please do not count MCI. This may turn into a, "How far will each city/state go to retain the employees and the purchasing power and taxes they bring?"
odie01
Veteran
- May 11, 2010
- 1,321
- 473
Has your fleet service clerk president said anything to his membership about the 757's going to Timco?
- Aug 20, 2002
- 7,319
- 1,555
I cannot quote the Fleet Service President, however it has been said that those that fix things. were working on a plan. And then you had to go and release the TIMCO news release. ( you know someone has to blamed, sounds like you stuck yourself in the game.)
strikeforce
Veteran
- Jan 18, 2011
- 1,224
- 253
I think you're missing the point here.....Tulsa gave the company an excuse to try an MRO, and if it turns out that TIMCO does a fairly good job and it saves the company money, more and more aircraft will go to TIMCO, at least in the near term.
Who said they were bluffing? I'm glad they finally found someone to do it as we do not have the space or personnel. I work with several who have seen the handywork of many MRO's and it's not a pretty picture. Can't wait to compare the cost and quality. There's a problem with doing away with "maintenance all together" called system protection, as Sept of 98' just won't get it done. Perhaps some with animosity towards Tulsa can hope for abrogation of the contracts in BK.
strikeforce
Veteran
- Jan 18, 2011
- 1,224
- 253
No animosity, just pointing out the facts. Do you actually believe management cares about quality???? If they did, they wouldn't be complaining about dependability and reliabilty problems.
strikeforce
Veteran
- Jan 18, 2011
- 1,224
- 253
Look, I see a company in motion with lots of different plans....i.e. Eagle Divesture, new aircraft, mortgaged 43 aircraft to raise another billion, and labor deals going south.....WE just don't know the company's intentions or agenda....I wouldn't discount a BK, and if they do, Tulsa may end up like UA's SFO maint base or INDY, and UA also has TIMCO doing line maint at their class 2 stations.....not far fetched that BK will give them an avenue to get rid of the system protection. In the near term, WE shouldn't be giving AA the taste of TIMCO because they may like it and then we're done.
