TWU negotiations.........what?

[Buck]

I think you're missing the point here.....Tulsa gave the company an excuse to try an MRO, and if it turns out that TIMCO does a fairly good job and it saves the company money, more and more aircraft will go to TIMCO, at least in the near term.

No you missed the point, maybe I was not clear. When I spoke of TULSA I was referring to the City of Tulsa/State of Oklahoma and their attempts to maintain a workforce of over 5000.
Devastating as a closure maybe, the LINE nor TUL are RED CIRCLED. There would be a lot of churn. The point being that unless the TWU has a secret letter of agreement with Tulsa, DFW and or AFW, no one will be protected. I believe that in the last T/A that there was language to protect from a takeover, but not divestiture. As for an increase in further farming out, I am sure that we have protection for that.

 

[wrencher]

No you missed the point, maybe I was not clear. When I spoke of TULSA I was referring to the City of Tulsa/State of Oklahoma and their attempts to maintain a workforce of over 5000.
Devastating as a closure maybe, the LINE nor TUL are RED CIRCLED. There would be a lot of churn. The point being that unless the TWU has a secret letter of agreement with Tulsa, DFW and or AFW, no one will be protected. I believe that in the last T/A that there was language to protect from a takeover, but not divestiture. As for an increase in further farming out, I am sure that we have protection for that.

I would not bet on that Buck,remember even if AA makes a mistake they won't correct the wrong due to the arrogance.

 

[Buck]

I would not bet on that Buck,remember even if AA makes a mistake they won't correct the wrong due to the arrogance.

I would also repeat your statement, however I might put another group in the place of the company.

 

[Birdman]

No animosity, just pointing out the facts.

Many of your past posts contain "facts" that include "animosity" between Tulsa OH and the line. I understand and don't fault you for having those feelings. The compAAny knew what they were doing when they built TULE into the largest maintenance base in the universe.

In the near term, WE shouldn't be giving AA the taste of TIMCO because they may like it and then we're done.

What part of we don't have space or manpower to do this work did you not get. Ironically I attribute these yield problems to mismanagement compounded by lack of motivation on our part. If they are satisfied with Timco's turntimes and costs power to them. The fAAct is they have simply destroyed the superior maintenance program they once had prior to this decade as morale and productivity was high and turntimes were an industry standard, and sadly no current member of manAAgement has the intellect and leadership skills to turn back the clock.

 

[Buck]

The compAAny knew what they were doing when they built TULE into the largest maintenance base in the universe.

Someday it may even be a space port.

 

[eolesen]

It's easy to slam the quality of TIMCO and other US based MROs, but the fact remains that they've got a pretty long list of customers. And they've got mechanics and techs who should be able to read the manuals and pay taxes here...

There is no shortage of pm-US, pm-NW and pm-UA guys complaining about the work done by them (or any other US based MRO) does on their behalf, but I really can't say I've heard it to the same degree from pm-CO, pm-HP, pm-DL or WN pilots or mechanics.

Not surprised at the reaction here, since there are still a few of you who see work done by an AA mechanic based in NRT or LHR as competition or outsourcing.

 

[Hopeful]

It's easy to slam the quality of TIMCO and other US based MROs, but the fact remains that they've got a pretty long list of customers. And they've got mechanics and techs who should be able to read the manuals and pay taxes here...

There is no shortage of pm-US, pm-NW and pm-UA guys complaining about the work done by them (or any other US based MRO) does on their behalf, but I really can't say I've heard it to the same degree from pm-CO, pm-HP, pm-DL or WN pilots or mechanics.

Not surprised at the reaction here, since there are still a few of you who see work done by an AA mechanic based in NRT or LHR as competition or outsourcing.

Don't worry, E......In addition to employees getting screwed in BK....You can bet that OH will be spun off as a separate entity and a new pay structure and workrules will put AA on a even keel with TIMCO. This is what AA wants but would have preferred they achieved that goal WITH the TWU. This way they can always reply "WELL YOU GUYS BOUGHT INTO THIS. Why do you think DWH was created? To do most or all of AA's work with the help of AFW...And to free up more of TULE to do contract work and maybe even a joint venture with Boeing to be the warranty work provider on customer aircraft! As for line mainteance, well, at JFK, AA's ramp looks like SWISSPORT airlines doing all the ground handling....Who's to say Swissport doesn't take over line maintenace?
If anyone doesn't think AA has a major plan for the OH facilities is living in a fantasy world.
But none of us are exempt!
We will all see just how fair and kind AA truly is when they ask a BKL judge to rewrite contracts!

 

[Hopeful]

Could you imagine the discussion and aura during yesterday's "informal" negotiation session between the company and TWU......?

Oh to be a fly on that wall!

 

[Mechanic]

Don't worry, E......In addition to employees getting screwed in BK....You can bet that OH will be spun off as a separate entity and a new pay structure and workrules will put AA on a even keel with TIMCO. This is what AA wants but would have preferred they achieved that goal WITH the TWU. This way they can always reply "WELL YOU GUYS BOUGHT INTO THIS. Why do you think DWH was created? To do most or all of AA's work with the help of AFW...And to free up more of TULE to do contract work and maybe even a joint venture with Boeing to be the warranty work provider on customer aircraft! As for line mainteance, well, at JFK, AA's ramp looks like SWISSPORT airlines doing all the ground handling....Who's to say Swissport doesn't take over line maintenace?
If anyone doesn't think AA has a major plan for the OH facilities is living in a fantasy world.
But none of us are exempt!
We will all see just how fair and kind AA truly is when they ask a BKL judge to rewrite contracts!

Tulsa has been the 800 pound gorilla in the room for many years. We cannot compete with other carriers who out source all their major maintenance at a fraction of our cost. We pay 5000+ people a salary, medical, pension, OT not to mention building maint and upkeep. Heat, electric, taxes, etc. Don't get me wrong, I think it's better we do our own maint from many aspects but in this environment it's financially impractical. Were basically the only carrier who lost money last year. What do we do nobody else does?

 

[Hopeful]

Tulsa has been the 800 pound gorilla in the room for many years. We cannot compete with other carriers who out source all their major maintenance at a fraction of our cost. We pay 5000+ people a salary, medical, pension, OT not to mention building maint and upkeep. Heat, electric, taxes, etc. Don't get me wrong, I think it's better we do our own maint from many aspects but in this environment it's financially impractical. Were basically the only carrier who lost money last year. What do we do nobody else does?

That's a sad reality that the company wishes to change, one way or another!

 

[Birdman]

Tulsa has been the 800 pound gorilla in the room for many years. We cannot compete with other carriers who out source all their major maintenance at a fraction of our cost. We pay 5000+ people a salary, medical, pension, OT not to mention building maint and upkeep. Heat, electric, taxes, etc. Don't get me wrong, I think it's better we do our own maint from many aspects but in this environment it's financially impractical. Were basically the only carrier who lost money last year. What do we do nobody else does?

Again, if the CEO of AA doesn't even know if it's cheaper to outsource, how can you know? We may get a ballpark estimate with the limited Timco contract, although they may initially choose to "break even" in order to get future work. Only a protracted relationship would be accurate. AA has the most extensive maintenance capabilities under one roof than any other facility in the world and is staffed with trained personnel. Your right, it's financially impractical for AA to do their own maintenance as the amount of waste from mismanagement, union interference, and low morale is staggering. An efficiently ran facility of this caliber would be priceless to any airline as outsourcing removes most of the control an airline has to maintain tight turn times, quality, and extended contract costs.

That's a sad reality that the company wishes to change, one way or another!

Reminds me of the scene in "Dancing With Wolves" when the union army is pinned down by an inferior rebel force, the brass watching from a hilltop without a clue how to gain a tactical advantage. Likewise, AA is devoid of the leadership skills to overcome this obstacle.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tulsa has been the 800 pound gorilla in the room for many years. We cannot compete with other carriers who out source all their major maintenance at a fraction of our cost. We pay 5000+ people a salary, medical, pension, OT not to mention building maint and upkeep. Heat, electric, taxes, etc. Don't get me wrong, I think it's better we do our own maint from many aspects but in this environment it's financially impractical. Were basically the only carrier who lost money last year. What do we do nobody else does?

that's ridiculous. Management got the company into your present situation. Labor gave way too much already, but the problem was that it gave it to drunks. The reason for AMR's imminent bankruptcy is the debt to equity ratio which is at least twice as high as any other carrier. Hold on to whatever salaries and benefits you currently have for as long as you can, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to give back now when you already know you will have to give back in bankruptcy at least once but most likely a few times. Also, make sure the union doesn't scramble and freak out, keep the union as accountable as you can.

regards,

Tim Nelson

 

[Deleted member 14439]

that's ridiculous. Management got the company into your present situation. Labor gave way too much already, but the problem was that it gave it to drunks. The reason for AMR's imminent bankruptcy is the debt to equity ratio which is at least twice as high as any other carrier. Hold on to whatever salaries and benefits you currently have for as long as you can, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to give back now when you already know you will have to give back in bankruptcy at least once but most likely a few times. Also, make sure the union doesn't scramble and freak out, keep the union as accountable as you can.

regards,

Tim Nelson

Tim you are right. However your post made me blow a snot bubble with "keep the union as accountable as you can". I`m guessing you don`t know about the TWU. "Accountable" is not in their vocabulary!!!

 

[Frank Szabo]

that's ridiculous. Management got the company into your present situation. Labor gave way too much already, but the problem was that it gave it to drunks. The reason for AMR's imminent bankruptcy is the debt to equity ratio which is at least twice as high as any other carrier. Hold on to whatever salaries and benefits you currently have for as long as you can, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to give back now when you already know you will have to give back in bankruptcy at least once but most likely a few times. Also, make sure the union doesn't scramble and freak out, keep the union as accountable as you can.

regards,

Tim Nelson

You can't possibly work for American, making comments like that (keep the union accountable).

There is no way this group of rubes can be made accountable, that is, unless things that are illegal begin to happen.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Could you imagine the discussion and aura during yesterday's "informal" negotiation session between the company and TWU......?

Oh to be a fly on that wall!

... the meeting couldn't have been more than BOTH parties present trying to figure a way to sell a "vessel of excrement" to the workers.