TWU negotiations.........what?

[strikeforce]

First you describe a Union that is weak and sounds more like a busted union to me.

Then you ask us to be a real union via communication.

Did you ever stop and consider that the union has been decimated, and has no strength?

And yet you are in denial and claim you do not live in a dream world when you think it can be reveresed so easily as asking and communication.

Maybe you should consider some co-dependency counseling via the Employee Assistance Program, then maybe your denial will cease.
Once I admitted the truth about this union and how slim hopes of changing it really are, my heart and mind is much more at peace.

I would love to see some union strength demonstrated in the profession and a victory for the working stiffs. This membership will not be in the crusade regardless of the name of the dues collector or the logo on the cover of the Constitution.

Look, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about our weaknesses and strengths.....you asked me what it's going to take for the union members to stick together....it can happen and for your information DID happen in 2000 and if you recall it was over $300 that AA wanted to pay the flight att for working over the millenium and screw all the other workers. Remember the court injunction placed on the AMT's at ORD because WE shutdown AA for one week "legally" by not accepting overtime and management had to white slip. It worked because Tulsa was on holiday shutdown and the company had nowhere to send their airplanes.....do you remember that???? So, don't tell me WE can't do it. WE choose not to do it or participate because the company dangles that carrot above our heads or allows certain members to have their DEALS.
Power in numbers works as long as EVERYONE sticks together like WE did in 2000. And, that means EVERYONE and at all stations. Period! The union has leverage over AA, WE just don't know how to use it or when to use it.....WE can start by communicating with each other.....forget about the INTL....we know their in the company's pocket.
Dude, you just don't know how management scrambled with their heads chopped off when we ALL refused overtime and spent the holidays with our families.....they actually brought supervisors from AFW & Tul to help out, but management couldn't do a damn thing about it. Their were heavy's 76, dc-10 that sat for over a week with pages of legitamate write ups. It can be done......WE just need some participation from EVERYONE and WE need communications! In a tech world we currently have it's very easy and lightening fast.
Reality is AA needs the mechanics more than WE need AA.....that's our leverage.....the company cannot fly 610 aircraft to China or SA overnight and get them back in time to fly at dawn....or find thousands of aircraft mechanics overnight to do line maintenance tomorrow.....WE know it and management knows it! WE are foolish not to use that to OUR advantage, right??????

 

[Runwaysticker]

Look, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about our weaknesses and strengths.....you asked me what it's going to take for the union members to stick together....it can happen and for your information DID happen in 2000 and if you recall it was over $300 that AA wanted to pay the flight att for working over the millenium and screw all the other workers. Remember the court injunction placed on the AMT's at ORD because WE shutdown AA for one week "legally" by not accepting overtime and management had to white slip. It worked because Tulsa was on holiday shutdown and the company had nowhere to send their airplanes.....do you remember that???? So, don't tell me WE can't do it. WE choose not to do it or participate because the company dangles that carrot above our heads or allows certain members to have their DEALS.
Power in numbers works as long as EVERYONE sticks together like WE did in 2000. And, that means EVERYONE and at all stations. Period! The union has leverage over AA, WE just don't know how to use it or when to use it.....WE can start by communicating with each other.....forget about the INTL....we know their in the company's pocket.
Dude, you just don't know how management scrambled with their heads chopped off when we ALL refused overtime and spent the holidays with our families.....they actually brought supervisors from AFW & Tul to help out, but management couldn't do a damn thing about it. Their were heavy's 76, dc-10 that sat for over a week with pages of legitamate write ups. It can be done......WE just need some participation from EVERYONE and WE need communications! In a tech world we currently have it's very easy and lightening fast.
Reality is AA needs the mechanics more than WE need AA.....that's our leverage.....the company cannot fly 610 aircraft to China or SA overnight and get them back in time to fly at dawn....or find thousands of aircraft mechanics overnight to do line maintenance tomorrow.....WE know it and management knows it! WE are foolish not to use that to OUR advantage, right??????

Its all going to come to a head soon, AA needs a pilot contract to get the new planes, or BK, let the judge they will buy ok all the work groups contracts, and hope for the best, I totaly agree unions are only as good as the workers sticking together, but in this day and time with line vs OH. We are in the back of the line for a contract ,they made thier offer last august, they will meet next month make a little progress then holidays kick in and meet agian next year. Its all about the pilots.........

 

[Bob Owens]

Its all going to come to a head soon, AA needs a pilot contract to get the new planes, or BK, let the judge they will buy ok all the work groups contracts, and hope for the best, I totaly agree unions are only as good as the workers sticking together, but in this day and time with line vs OH. We are in the back of the line for a contract ,they made thier offer last august, they will meet next month make a little progress then holidays kick in and meet agian next year. Its all about the pilots.........

We have the option to jump to the front of the line, but we have to ask to be released. We went through the process, went through Mediation till they walked out. The law says at that point we are to be proffered Binding arbitration or be released to a 30 day cooling off period where the status quo remains until expiration of the 30 days, after that we are free to self help, or the President can convene a PEB, another 30 days of Status quo, if either of us rejects the PEB we can resort to self Help unless Congress intervenes and mandates a settlement. Thats never happened in the airline industry but it has in the rails, normally Congress imposes the PEB recommendations. Nowhere in the RLA does it say that we can be put on ice nor that we have to move more towards the company.


We are not alone, but the problem is we are in the position of setting the pattern for the rest of the industry, and we have a horrible track record when it comes to industry firsts. Over 50 airline/union contracts are currently in mediation. Because of these facts we are going to have the biggest fight. While time is on our side, time also is killing us, year after year of rising costs and shrinking paychecks is causing a huge amount of suffering. The NMB is not being neutral, how could it be neutral when the guy in charge of mediation comes from Aircon? He spent his career fighting against increased wages for airline workers, now, if we walk away with a much improved contract after rejecting a TA the industry will be right back where it was in 2000, with TA after TA being rejected and workers restoring their wages. Just as Larry Gibbons did everything he could to stop that in 2000 he is doing it again in 2011. We have to make sure he is even less successful at it this time as he was last time.

 

[TWU informer]

Bob, can you initiate another Request for Release Vote now that new Officers have been sworn in?

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Page 459 and counting, of this thread! Will it hit 900??? -------At this rate, easy!!!

 

[TWU informer]

Bump

Bob, can you initiate another Request for Release Vote now that new Officers have been sworn in?

 

[Birdman]

The NMB is not being neutral, how could it be neutral when the guy in charge of mediation comes from Aircon? He spent his career fighting against increased wages for airline workers, now, if we walk away with a much improved contract after rejecting a TA the industry will be right back where it was in 2000, with TA after TA being rejected and workers restoring their wages. Just as Larry Gibbons did everything he could to stop that in 2000 he is doing it again in 2011. We have to make sure he is even less successful at it this time as he was last time.

How can it be that the NMB, who's 3 member board containing a former AFA president and a former executive VP of the ALPA, can be so slanted toward corporations, i.e. keeping the flow of revenue uninterupted? Is it any wonder that so many cynical union members cannot tell the difference between the compAAny and their international officers?

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Page 459 and counting, of this thread! Will it hit 900??? -------At this rate, easy!!!

<_< ----- Chances are, at this rate, real good, that you'll still be debating this Contract next year!!! :unsure:

 

[Overspeed]

Bump

Bob, can you initiate another Request for Release Vote now that new Officers have been sworn in?

And then Kane will tell us to pound sand until 2013. The committee already discussed release from the mediator from what I was told by our Pres.

 

[TWU informer]

And then Kane will tell us to pound sand until 2013. The committee already discussed release from the mediator from what I was told by our Pres.

Then why does Bob Owens keep claiming we need to ask for a release?

Doesn't make any sense, right now the 9 voters against are taking the blame.
Under your scenario, all they had to do was ask, and then Kane would be to blame instead.

I think you are being lied to by your President.

 

[787nightmare]

Its all going to come to a head soon, AA needs a pilot contract to get the new planes, or BK, let the judge they will buy ok all the work groups contracts, and hope for the best, I totaly agree unions are only as good as the workers sticking together, but in this day and time with line vs OH. We are in the back of the line for a contract ,they made thier offer last august, they will meet next month make a little progress then holidays kick in and meet agian next year. Its all about the pilots.........

Truth here^^^...only because the bunch of dumbasses known as "mechanic & related" doesn't realize this: vvv

"Reality is AA needs the mechanics more than WE need AA.....that's our leverage.....the company cannot fly 610 aircraft to China or SA overnight and get them back in time to fly at dawn....or find thousands of aircraft mechanics overnight to do line maintenance tomorrow.....WE know it and management knows it! WE are foolish not to use that to OUR advantage, right??????"-strikeforce

 

[Bob Owens]

Then why does Bob Owens keep claiming we need to ask for a release?

Doesn't make any sense, right now the 9 voters against are taking the blame.
Under your scenario, all they had to do was ask, and then Kane would be to blame instead.

I think you are being lied to by your President.

The mediators told us a bunch of reasons why they felt the NMB would not release us, the economy, the election, the supposed state of the company, then they said that we needed to move towards the companies position. We tried that, all they do is move further away.

The request doesn't go to the mediators, what sense would that make? The request goes to Hoglander and the board. What does the law say? How has the NMB described the process? The RLA was not put in place as prohibition on strikes, it put in place a process to avoid strikes through facilitation of mediation, if that fails then we continue on the process, nowhere does it say anything about the mediators holding us on ice until we agree to the companies terms, if it did then labor never would have accepted the deal. I say let's ask to be released and see what they say. Will it piss them off? Maybe, but kissing their ass hasn't gotten us anywhere, let them tell us why we must stay at this point in the process then, if they do stop us from going forward challenge it because they are not following the process as they describe it . All the reasons the mediators brought up for not getting released are not addressed in the law and have nothing to do with the question of do we have the right to expect to follow the process in our best interests, not the companies interests, not for political reasons, not for the broader economy, there are options further along in the process where those things can come into play but at this step, mediation, now that the mediators have said that there is no point in continuing mediation what possible reason could they present for not going forward?

Let's get to the 30 day cooling off period, then the field is level. If at the end of that 30 day period we have not come to an agreement the President has the right to convene a PEB where both sides make their case and come up with a recommendation for settlement.

I think we need to hear from the NMB and I wonder, since after all we legally are nothing more than witnesses if what we've been told is the whole story.

 

[Birdman]

The request doesn't go to the mediators, what sense would that make? The request goes to Hoglander and the board.

Linda Puchala is the current chairman of the NMB board and a former AFA president. Hoglander is a former Executive VP of the ALPA. As the TWU international would probably be making the request for release, one would think the board would be obliging considering all this union brotherhood hoopla. Dismissing all this false bravado, we all know the international has no intention of making a request for release, even at the request of a majority of the presidents.

 

[Overspeed]

Then why does Bob Owens keep claiming we need to ask for a release?

Doesn't make any sense, right now the 9 voters against are taking the blame.
Under your scenario, all they had to do was ask, and then Kane would be to blame instead.

I think you are being lied to by your President.

Hoglander, Kane, it really doesn't matter who they ask. They committee already knows the outcome of their request for release. The APA and the APFA have had requests for release out for how long now? A year or more. Why Bob thinks the TWU has all this leverage to get a release you would have to ask him for his reasons. Unless he already knows that the TWU will get shot down and he can claim that he is a fighter and that the Int'l is against him, Wall Street is against him, the NMB is against him, etc...

Swami sez that we will still be posting on this BB the same old complaints, Bob will continue typing about tons of "facts" and we will still have less and less buying power. Didn't Bob have another plan other than ask for release? We voted no because he said the members needed to give him a hammer. Well he has it and we are waiting.

 

[Bob Owens]

Why Bob thinks the TWU has all this leverage to get a release you would have to ask him for his reasons.

Because I've been told for 25 years that we have more clout due to AFL-CIO affiliation than both the APA and APFA thats why. Are you saying that the International should not be believed? We supported certain candidates because we were told they would support labor. Well we paid the fee, lets see if we get the service. We supported Obama, lets ask him to support us, or should we just stand aside and continue to do without while all our political Capital is used to protect a Unions right to collect dues from Government workers or get representational elections at non-union carriers?