So by all means the TWU should continue pumping thousands of dollars into the DNC's coffers in order to gain favor after the elections and just consider all those past contributions as a down payment? :blink:
TWU negotiations.........what?
- Thread starter Chuck Schalk
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So by all means the TWU should continue pumping thousands of dollars into the DNC's coffers in order to gain favor after the elections and just consider all those past contributions as a down payment? :blink:
So, why wait? What's the problem with asking now? Is it the election or is it they dont want us to ask just as people are planning their Holiday travel?
So we ask, make it very public so the travelling public knows that things are not well between the airline and their employees even if they say NO. I think our brothers and sisters would like to at least see what excuse they come up with for saying NO when we have complied with the LAW, and getting released, after the Mediator says that there is no point in continuing mediation, is the next step.
We've been at Negotiations for nearly four years, in the meantime its business as usual. Sure the status quo is the law but that does not prevent us from at least letting the public know that a showdown is coming and it doesnt mean that we have to roll over to every company request such as supporting anti-trust immunity, waiving the experience requirement for mechanics and coming out against a stricter duty time limit for mechanics.
Flying low
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Most likely, someone doesn't want it to happen on his watch. Who knows, if he gets reelected then it would be 4 more years before we got released.
It seems that they want to use all their political capital just to make sure that unions can collect dues instead of making sure that the people who pay dues see good contracts and better living standards as a result of paying them. Have to make sure that the guys at the top keep mtheir cushy jobs, can I get a Harumph!!
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Bob
Without a mediator we can't be released, so why even bother showing up for these meetings with the company if they don't want to negotiate?
American Airlines Senior Management and the TWU agreed to meet informally again the week of October 3, 2011.
Without a mediator we can't be released, so why even bother showing up for these meetings with the company if they don't want to negotiate?
American Airlines Senior Management and the TWU agreed to meet informally again the week of October 3, 2011.
The TWU voted NOT to be released is my understanding from reading threw all this BS. Tulsa is going to screw themselfs by not taking the 7 day work week. The new airplanes are coming the checks they accomplish will not be needed for years.So any work AA would have picked up as a mro to keep them up running is out the door. Tulsa will down size with dwh becoming the bigger player.
The company is going to continue to offer the same package, and the twu will continue spinning it wheels, pounding there chests demanding more and putting us farther behind.
Yea I understand we took it in the @$$ in 2003 but get over it, WE VOTED IT IN!!! Its time to move on!! Everyday without a contract is another win for AA. In 2003 The TWU and AA in a matter of minutes came to agreement.
Now 2011 Over 3 years or what ever still no light at the end of the tunnel. Oct 3 just another day coming with out a agreement. Lock yourselfs up in a room like 2003 and get a deal done!!!1
Maybe you didn't get the memo from a recent consulting group that Aircraft Overhaul is not where the money is. Component repair and engines are the money makers. I see the compAAny posturing themselves for big savings in maintenance and possible revenue generation in the next five years. Sure, their own AO needs will shrink through attrition of not only aircraft, but the aging workforce. They will endure immediate short term shortages with overtime and outsourcing to get them over the hump, which is predicted for mid 2012. They're spending big $ to retrofit the smaller hangars to accept taller tails as the MD-80's become passé. They still have 7 day coverage in the contract that could be utilized in the future for component repair and weekend push back should diminish as the old timers go to pasture (and those left will enjoy more parking options as well). IMO, I don't see Tulsa becoming much less of a player any time soon.
eolesen
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Haven't I been telling you guys that for the past four years?...
The Mediator doesnt release us, the NMB does. The mediator already bailed, said that they would not schedule further talks because there was no point. Well the chart covers that-the next steps are ;
A) Binding Arbitration- both sides must accept going into it
B ) Release to a cooling off period which could lead to:
1) Self Help
and/or 2) PEB
and/or 3) a settlement- this would be the best outcome for all but it would require a change of mindset on the part of the company who feel that this is simply a mop up session for what they feel they missed in 2003, this aint 2003.
Self help means company can put new terms in place and union can strike or engage in other non-violent actions to pressure the company to come to terms. Both parties could agree to maintain status quo after the 30 day cooling off period and negotiate as well.
The PEB puts off self help another 30 days. If either party rejects the PEB recommendations Congress could intervene, and impose terms. Never happened as far as I've seen in the airlines, has in the rails, and usually the PEB recommendations are what they put in. The Bush appointed PEB for AMTRAK awarded full backpay citing that was typical for the industry and saying that AMTRAK got a eight year interest free loan. They split the payments up similar to our offer to AA.
A bigger win for AA would have been the TA. Do you want us to give away as much as we did in 2003 for the sake of expediancy? AMTRAK took eight years and they got full back pay. I believe UPS took five years and they got full backpay as well, plus they top out at $50/hr. I agree these talks have gone on too long, locking ourselves in the room may seem like a good idea but only if there are consequences to not having an agreement when we come out, we have to get released, then we get to hold a gun to their heads instead of them being the only ones with a gun. Its our move and we need to make it. Saying we wont get released is no excuse for not asking for it.
TWU informer
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Paul,
I agree with your post.
The frustrating thing about the Tulsa 7 day coverage issue is that if the TWU (Union?) would embrace bid shifts and bid days off, the 7 day coverage would be much easier to swallow for the membership. The "experiment dock" 1D was filled with manpower from a AA/TWU freeze the transfers and movement of manpower debacle. This placed AMT's with 25+ years of seniority assigned to the dock which were not volunteers via the bid system. Many with 25+ years of seniority resented the fact that they were going to be involuntarily placed on Saturday and Sunday work schedules while much less senior AMT's were assinged to the engine shop working Overtime Pay Rates for Saturday/Sunday work. In other words management once again even screwed up their "test bed" for 7 day coverage in Tulsa. And best I can tell, to this day neither the union? nor the company have figured this out.
IF and I mean IF the (union?) and company would implement bid shifts, and bid days off, and stop forcing AMT's to undesirable work locations by freezing the transfers, then maybe 7 coverage would fly. Nothing is more FAIR than seniority rule in a union shop environment. Yet since I began working at AA for 28 years ago, there has always been a non-seniority based rotation of undesireable shifts. I can only assume that some low senior AMT was at one time elected to union office and implemented such a foolish and anti-union system or used this issue to campaign for office at a time it was politically favorable for winning the election.
If the seniority based system were to be implemented on the Tulsa Maintenance Base, the 7 day coverage would be fair, and those that couldnt bid their desired shift/days off would bid to another area based on the seniority of that area. This seems to work just fine at the Line Stations, and the only reason Tulsa is against this is because the non-seniority based system of shift/days off leaves high seniority AMT's on undesireable work schedules.
The solution is really so simple and fair it, amazes me that it hasn't been brought forward. The only explanation is that current union officers fear losing their political positions and are afraid to take a stand for a pro-union change for the better. Instead they would rather see work outsourced and sent to other stations rather than lead.
In other words STUPID is as STUPID does.
D
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Have you bothered to read the contract you idiot? 7 day coverage is an option the company currently has, the 1/7 rule. They choose not to use it is thier problem. The bases, for whatever reason, do not utilize a senority based bid system for shifts and days off. Management at the bases run around like drunken sailors in Olongopo making bad decision after bad decision. Care to guess how our overtime is run? A supervisor walks around all night tracking guys down to ask them if they want to work. Very inefficient. Then in the case of a sat/sun proffer he has to go back and recalculate the hours to see who he asks for sunday, real smart. Geez, I could right a book about the clown show I see everyday. Here is one, recently on a friday I come in and start to game plan job assignments. Guess what, my entire crew had been allowed to CS off!!! There I sat in my office on a friday night with NO CREW! That is but one example of the clown show!
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He may be an idiot, however you seem to be unsure about the use of the I before E rule along with a few other grammar issues.
Chuck Schalk
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"We believe AMR's recent massive aircraft order will produce more harm than good, with operational efficiencies coming too late to close the gap on the company's [profit and loss] deficiency relative to peers ... with or without new labor contracts," Keay wrote in a note to investors this month. The aircraft order included $13 billion in financing from the manufacturers for the first 100 Boeing aircraft and the first 130 Airbus aircraft.
In 2003, AMR avoided bankruptcy by getting its labor unions to agree to major concessions. Those contracts have since become amendable, and the carrier has been negotiating with pilots, flight attendants and ground workers unions for several years without reaching any tentative agreement. Unlike its peers that entered bankruptcy in the last decade, AMR still has pension obligations and more costly labor contracts.
Avondale Partners analyst Bob McAdoo said that airline executives in the past gladly entered bankruptcy to break labor contracts but that AMR's current executives and board of directors are unlikely to do so. "They talk with pride about how they made it through much more difficult times without bankruptcy," McAdoo said. "They have plenty of cash. They aren't going to run out of money to be able to pay their bills."
Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09/25/3395624/is-amr-headed-toward-bankruptcy.html#ixzz1ZIWwK4tE
In 2003, AMR avoided bankruptcy by getting its labor unions to agree to major concessions. Those contracts have since become amendable, and the carrier has been negotiating with pilots, flight attendants and ground workers unions for several years without reaching any tentative agreement. Unlike its peers that entered bankruptcy in the last decade, AMR still has pension obligations and more costly labor contracts.
Avondale Partners analyst Bob McAdoo said that airline executives in the past gladly entered bankruptcy to break labor contracts but that AMR's current executives and board of directors are unlikely to do so. "They talk with pride about how they made it through much more difficult times without bankruptcy," McAdoo said. "They have plenty of cash. They aren't going to run out of money to be able to pay their bills."
Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09/25/3395624/is-amr-headed-toward-bankruptcy.html#ixzz1ZIWwK4tE
