TWU negotiations.........what?

[Vortilon]

Just an interesting side note regarding aircraft mechanic wages.

Flight Simulator technicians represented by the TWU make more money than AMT's. I just find it interesting that mechanics that fix "fake" airplanes make more money than ones that fix the "real" thing??? What's wrong with that picture????

I'm not bashing the flight sims....just making a point about our wages.

Flight sims make $34.86 per hour......AMT's around $33 with license premiums. Go to jetnet and see for yourself.

Wasn't that long ago, that AMT's made about $5.00 more per hour than Sim Techs. Sim Techs seem to be slipping by us and heading towards those $45.00 per hour, 12 week course - Flight Dispatchers. Same local anyway. It all started when Little started moving up the ladder at the international. Just an observation.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Maybe we can get an accountant to put a total dollar figure on how much the membership has lost since the T/A was rejected. I know I am personally down over $15,000.00 in lost pay since we began the latest version of "save the profession". Stock Market crashing, Double Dip Recession in full swing, Mediator walked out on negotiations, and no more formal negotiations scheduled.

Who has a link the YouTube Vote No Video?

I am down over 100K since 2003 plus benefits! Your only down if your job is still there when it is all said and done. I guess language is not a priority. Beware of the dangling carrot.

 

[FWAAA]

Yea go figure the supply demand of the market. I remember when diesel fuel was way cheaper than gasoline...But low and behold it is the other way around now...

True; for many years diesel was always cheaper, but for the last few years now, it is more expensive than premium. I don't pretend to understand why.

Tuesday's spot price for jetA was $2.95/gal (the feds publish prices every Tuesday for the previous week). Dunno how far it will fall (if any) as a result of the huge drops in crude prices.

 

[TWU informer]

I am down over 100K since 2003 plus benefits! Your only down if your job is still there when it is all said and done. I guess language is not a priority. Beware of the dangling carrot.

Yeah Chuck we are all down since 2003. But I dont see the current "hard ball" stance or whatever you call bluffing and then getting caught bluffing getting back our lost wages from 2003, and instead we are now losing more which will not be recovered either. While refusing the carrot, we are getting rotted egg.

You and Bob keep thowing fear of job loss out there just like professional TWU manipulators do. The truth is if AA wants to get rid of jobs they will either do it, or you will get less compensation to keep those jobs, but anyone who believes we will keep our defined pension, top wage pay, top benefit package, and still keep all of the maintenance jobs is smoking crack and needs a drug test.

I just fail to see where the followers of the vote NO crowd have gained anything, but I can clearly count what it has cost me. It actual appears to me that the vote NO crowd has given the company and additional 3 years of concessions and more are on the way. They always have the bankruptcy route if you keep refusing, We cannot win because the laws do not favor us, so much for benefits of TWU political action. Where has that got us?

I am open minded enough to hear your opinion on what we have gained following the Bob Owens doctrine, one rule though, fear and speculation is out the window, just the facts please. I can get all the fear and speculation I can stand down on Pine Street at Local 514. Let's hear it.

 

[Kev3188]

I am down over 100K since 2003 plus benefits! Your only down if your job is still there when it is all said and done. I guess language is not a priority. Beware of the dangling carrot.

This is a lot higher number than other AMTs' have cited... How are you down so much more? Just curious...

 

[TWU informer]

This is a lot higher number than other AMTs' have cited... How are you down so much more? Just curious...

I don't personally dispute the $100K+ figure, this is true. I dispute the notion that we are getting better by losing more.

 

[strikeforce]

Yeah Chuck we are all down since 2003. But I dont see the current "hard ball" stance or whatever you call bluffing and then getting caught bluffing getting back our lost wages from 2003, and instead we are now losing more which will not be recovered either. While refusing the carrot, we are getting rotted egg.

You call sitting around and doing nothing "hard ball stance"??? You (TUL) are the majority, why don't you guys show some balls and LEAD with whatever is necessary to bring AA to the table and negotiate in GOOD faith?? I hear a lot of rhetoric from the Tulsa boys, but NOTHING concrete. AA and the TWU leadership are sitting around and playing games with OUR livelihoods and NOT one person in Tulsa wants to take ownership in OUR future. Yea, the TWU Intl owns the contract....I've heard that countless times and it's total BS. WE own our contract because WE have to live with whatever terms and conditions WE accept by ballot vote. But first, WE have to come up with a gameplan to bring management to the table and deal with US in a serious manner. Look, if YOU guys are afraid to take on the company let me know because the Line is always prepared for battle, but in exchange for my battle wounds TUL has to give up majority rule to the LINE!!! Let me know??

 

[TWU informer]

You call sitting around and doing nothing "hard ball stance"??? You (TUL) are the majority, why don't you guys show some balls and LEAD with whatever is necessary to bring AA to the table and negotiate in GOOD faith?? I hear a lot of rhetoric from the Tulsa boys, but NOTHING concrete. AA and the TWU leadership are sitting around and playing games with OUR livelihoods and NOT one person in Tulsa wants to take ownership in OUR future. Yea, the TWU Intl owns the contract....I've heard that countless times and it's total BS. WE own our contract because WE have to live with whatever terms and conditions WE accept by ballot vote. But first, WE have to come up with a gameplan to bring management to the table and deal with US in a serious manner. Look, if YOU guys are afraid to take on the company let me know because the Line is always prepared for battle, but in exchange for my battle wounds TUL has to give up majority rule to the LINE!!! Let me know??

It wasn't me or anyone in Tulsa that made the VOTE NO YouTube Video. Those that were leaders of the NO VOTE Campaign now need to lead us out of this mess. But Alas, they are not the majority once again. That is why they seek a Union Consitutional Structure that will undermine majority rule. They made the clever NO VOTE video, but now what? Seems to me they lead the voters to a NO VOTE but can't finish the job to clean up the mess they have ceated.

The reason you do not hear much from Tulsa, is because our jobs can be outsourced.

You guys all banging the drum for the NO VOTE now want Tulsa to bail you asses out the bluff that AA called.

You should have taken your $2.55 line premium when you had the chance.

I voted yes and told each of you why. Now you can clearly see what I meant and why I voted the way I did.
Not because I liked the agreement, but because with the TWU, we will not get any better.

I am ready to say "I told you so"

 

[enough already]

This is a lot higher number than other AMTs' have cited... How are you down so much more? Just curious...

100k is about right and that doesn't include the loss of vacation, sick leave or holidays... <_<

 

[Kev3188]

I don't personally dispute the $100K+ figure, this is true. I dispute the notion that we are getting better by losing more.

I'm not disputing it either... It just seemed higher than what others had mentioned, so I was curious.

100k is about right and that doesn't include the loss of vacation, sick leave or holidays... <_<

Ok, fair enough.

 

[strikeforce]

It wasn't me or anyone in Tulsa that made the VOTE NO YouTube Video. Those that were leaders of the NO VOTE Campaign now need to lead us out of this mess. But Alas, they are not the majority once again. That is why they seek a Union Consitutional Structure that will undermine majority rule. They made the clever NO VOTE video, but now what? Seems to me they lead the voters to a NO VOTE but can't finish the job to clean up the mess they have ceated.

The reason you do not hear much from Tulsa, is because our jobs can be outsourced.

You guys all banging the drum for the NO VOTE now want Tulsa to bail you asses out the bluff that AA called.

You should have taken your $2.55 line premium when you had the chance.

I voted yes and told each of you why. Now you can clearly see what I meant and why I voted the way I did.
Not because I liked the agreement, but because with the TWU, we will not get any better.

I am ready to say "I told you so"

Well, not surprising the Tulsa boys talk a big game but are afraid to challenge the company.....because YOU'RE afraid to lose your job to outsourcing??? hmmm

What about all the jobs that will be lost as a result of BK??

So, what your telling me is that YOU will not fight for your livelihood?? Go figure!

I voted NO because the TWU was trying to split the membership. I wasn't going to give AA more concessions i.e. ASM's, SMA's and using my sick bank to pay for retiree medical. In other words...the whole package sucked.

The reason WE are in this pickle is because most of our members are AFRAID to fight, and are waiting for the other person to start the fight....unfortunately, that will not happen. Given the fact that WE have given this company about 180K and counting, I would think the UNION members would stand up and fight to at least restore what we lost......but, I guess WE are not real union members.....WE are weak and WE can only point the finger at ourselves for OUR failure.

Like I tell my 16 year old son who's looking for a job.....the job is not coming to you if you sit around and wait for the job....you have to get off your arse and go find the job......same thing goes for our contract.....AA WILL NOT come to US and hand us more money...We need to get off OUR ass and show the company that WE deserve it!!

You and others aren't willing to get off your ass because your AFRAID!!!!!

Then live with the status quo until you retire or AA files BK.

Don't complain about negotiations or the negotiators!

 

[TWU informer]

Well, not surprising the Tulsa boys talk a big game but are afraid to challenge the company.....because YOU'RE afraid to lose your job to outsourcing??? hmmm

What about all the jobs that will be lost as a result of BK??

So, what your telling me is that YOU will not fight for your livelihood?? Go figure!

I voted NO because the TWU was trying to split the membership. I wasn't going to give AA more concessions i.e. ASM's, SMA's and using my sick bank to pay for retiree medical. In other words...the whole package sucked.

The reason WE are in this pickle is because most of our members are AFRAID to fight, and are waiting for the other person to start the fight....unfortunately, that will not happen. Given the fact that WE have given this company about 180K and counting, I would think the UNION members would stand up and fight to at least restore what we lost......but, I guess WE are not real union members.....WE are weak and WE can only point the finger at ourselves for OUR failure.

Like I tell my 16 year old son who's looking for a job.....the job is not coming to you if you sit around and wait for the job....you have to get off your arse and go find the job......same thing goes for our contract.....AA WILL NOT come to US and hand us more money...We need to get off OUR ass and show the company that WE deserve it!!

You and others aren't willing to get off your ass because your AFRAID!!!!!

Then live with the status quo until you retire or AA files BK.

Don't complain about negotiations or the negotiators!

At least I live and talk in the world of reality.

Unlike others who live and talk in a dream world.

You sound like you have a plan. So get off your ass, quit typing and lead. Talk is cheap, let's see you do something.
Show us your power, and quit waiting and blaming everyone else.
You're sitting around just like everyone else you are complaining about.

The big difference I see between you and I, is I am asking those that were the leaders of the NO VOTE movement to do something, on the other hand you asking a YES VOTER to do something. Is that over your head or emotional understanding?

 

[strikeforce]

At least I live and talk in the world of reality.

Unlike others who live and talk in a dream world.

You sound like you have a plan. So get off your ass, quit typing and lead. Talk is cheap, let's see you do something.
Show us your power, and quit waiting and blaming everyone else.
You're sitting around just like everyone else you are complaining about.

The big difference I see between you and I, is I am asking those that were the leaders of the NO VOTE movement to do something, on the other hand you asking a YES VOTER to do something. Is that over your head or emotional understanding?

No, you live in a passive world that allows others to walk all over you.....company, union, and gov't.

I don't live in a dream world, I live in a world with people that go around and claim their unity by wearing buttons, fancy jackets with union logo's and t-shirts that claim "all for one and one for all" BS, but are afraid to take part in standing up for our safety, profession and a living wage.

My plan is very easy as long as EVERYONE participates and is on the same page. We're not on the same page....WE all have different agendas and priorities. That's not a union!

What I find disturbing about our union is that our members will fight when the company even dares messing with the CS policy, but won't move to fight for our contract. It's absolutely absurd and pathetic.

What I find disturbing is that a majority of our members won't bother signing a union card to replace the same union YOU and I complain about. Just sign the card....it at least sends the TWU a threat or message of our frustration and disgust. Our members won't even do that which I find absolutely amazing.

I'm asking that ALL of US work together, as a UNION, and to be on the same page through communication.....whether it be e-mail, texting, web cam, wearing the same t-shirt, refuse overtime for a week in order to spend more time with family, or whatever game plan WE can come up with "legally" in order to show AA & the TWU that they need US more than WE need them!!!
How does that sound for starters?????

 

[TWU informer]

No, you live in a passive world that allows others to walk all over you.....company, union, and gov't.

I don't live in a dream world, I live in a world with people that go around and claim their unity by wearing buttons, fancy jackets with union logo's and t-shirts that claim "all for one and one for all" BS, but are afraid to take part in standing up for our safety, profession and a living wage.

My plan is very easy as long as EVERYONE participates and is on the same page. We're not on the same page....WE all have different agendas and priorities. That's not a union!

What I find disturbing about our union is that our members will fight when the company even dares messing with the CS policy, but won't move to fight for our contract. It's absolutely absurd and pathetic.

What I find disturbing is that a majority of our members won't bother signing a union card to replace the same union YOU and I complain about. Just sign the card....it at least sends the TWU a threat or message of our frustration and disgust. Our members won't even do that which I find absolutely amazing.

I'm asking that ALL of US work together, as a UNION, and to be on the same page through communication.....whether it be e-mail, texting, web cam, wearing the same t-shirt, refuse overtime for a week in order to spend more time with family, or whatever game plan WE can come up with "legally" in order to show AA & the TWU that they need US more than WE need them!!!
How does that sound for starters?????

First you describe a Union that is weak and sounds more like a busted union to me.

Then you ask us to be a real union via communication.

Did you ever stop and consider that the union has been decimated, and has no strength?

And yet you are in denial and claim you do not live in a dream world when you think it can be reveresed so easily as asking and communication.

Maybe you should consider some co-dependency counseling via the Employee Assistance Program, then maybe your denial will cease.
Once I admitted the truth about this union and how slim hopes of changing it really are, my heart and mind is much more at peace.

I would love to see some union strength demonstrated in the profession and a victory for the working stiffs. This membership will not be in the crusade regardless of the name of the dues collector or the logo on the cover of the Constitution.

 

[Runwaysticker]

First you describe a Union that is weak and sounds more like a busted union to me.

Then you ask us to be a real union via communication.

Did you ever stop and consider that the union has been decimated, and has no strength?

And yet you are in denial and claim you do not live in a dream world when you think it can be reveresed so easily as asking and communication.

Maybe you should consider some co-dependency counseling via the Employee Assistance Program, then maybe your denial will cease.
Once I admitted the truth about this union and how slim hopes of changing it really are, my heart and mind is much more at peace.

I would love to see some union strength demonstrated in the profession and a victory for the working stiffs. This membership will not be in the crusade regardless of the name of the dues collector or the logo on the cover of the Constitution.

If you owned a donut shop with union donut workers, and they were plenty of un-employed donut workers looking for work, and would work for less money, would you give your union donut workers a 30% raise knowing they will not strike or cause any type of job action ever?