TWU negotiations.........what?

[Bob Owens]

Duplicate

 

[Bob Owens]

There have been many before Bob Owens believe that "doing the right thing" is all that is needed to change the strucutre of the TWU.
They too have been defeated by the structure designed to keep control by the International.

In my opinion there are only a few ways to effect real change for the future of the Mechanic and Related at American Airlines.

The first would be to sign cards and attempt to get a representational election.
This has been tried many times, and the closest we came exposed an even deeper and entrinched corruption and coalition with AA Management.
Combined with the small amount of political influence via C.O.P.E., but this was enough to protect the dictators from the membership balloting for change using Federal Agencies governing our direction.

The second, which has never happened would be to organize some type of a large scale meltdown or semi-riot using members instead of delegates inside or outside the TWU Constitutional Convention.
A large scale protest, even bigger than the one's the TWU like to demonstrate against managment over bonus awards would get some media attention. But this demonstration would have to insist on nothing less than FULL DEMOCRATIC changes and stop at nothing to obtain those changes. The hard part here is to find enough members who care enough to travel and participate.

One other possibility is to make an alliance with the Republican Party, expose factual information about how undemocratic this union is, and a large group of members request legislation that will change the law governing structures of unions as a whole that will place the dues paying member in control and stop this communisitic approach to something already governed by federal law. There are already a large number of Republican Union members within the TWU, most created by the TWU, and if those Democrat union members could swallow their allegiance long enough to forge an allaince with the Republican Union members then something might actually happen. It is no secret that the TWU Political Influence wont go very far when it comes to Republican law makers. If Democrat Union members would reach out and side with their "political enemies" we might just see some legislation that will harness in the uncontrollable dictators. Using the TWU's biggest and most powerful enemy (Republicans" to assist us in the needed changes in the best idea yet and has the best chance to succeed.

Maybe a combination of number 2 and number 3 on this list would be in order.

Just a thought. But change is probably only still a dream.

Don't recall ever saying that "doing the right thing" is all that's needed to bring about the necessary changes to the TWU. The question is what is the problem, is it structural or personalities? Or both? When I look at local 100 or 556 I see a pretty good running union. Local 100 is an out and out industrial union and their mechanics make more than us with no licenses.
They come in raw and are trained by the MTA. When I look at 556 I see a craft local set up in an industrial union and they are the highest paid in the industry, even higher than those in flight attendant craft unions like the AFA and APFA. Even within the TWU/AA system the Dispatchers, who take a six month course to get certified do pretty well, they are all in one Local, once again a craft local within an industrial union. It seems that the craft local concept works in this industry, relatively speaking. Flight attendants look to Fellow flight attendant Tom McDaniel as their chosen leader of their Local. Dispatchers look to fellow dispatcher John Plowman the same way, but at Local 100 everybody looks to John Samuelson the same way. So is it the craft local structure or the fact that everyone is under a leader chosen by them? Our airline culture may be a factor in the success of the craft structure but the major commonality between these two more successful models is that the members chose a central leader who has authority over the contract, we don't have that, we have appointees of someone chosen by delegates at a Convention. That, despite the charade of a "Presidents Council " is where our problems start.

Lets look at what we have in the AA system for everyone except a few select groups like Dispatchers, sim tech and tech services. What exactly is the structure? What is the strategy behind it? Well if a company where given the job to design a union structure so as to make it inefficient and ineffective I doubt that any of them would be able to come up with one that would meet their objectives as well as the one we have. Self determination was designed to fail, and it has. The fact that members were told in some places that since their local was too small they can't self determine doomed self determination to failure, it simply fractured the workgroup into smaller pieces. So we end up at the table with a retired Fleet Service clerk with just seven members in the M&R title group being part of a committee of 11000 workers. We have three votes at the table cast by fleet service clerks that combined represent less than 50 M&R workers. It's a complete mess. Couple that to the fact that we don't have a central leader chosen by the members only makes things worse. Central authority is given over to former mechanics and fleet service clerks who have more than doubled their income as a result of their appointments Do you think they want to change things? The status quo serves them very well. Then you have Local Presidents, 20 of them, are they willing to allow their Locals to be consolidated into larger more effective ones?

There is no doubt we are in a mess. You offer some possible avenues but I disagree that the ways you describe are the only ways. There is no doubt in my mind that a representational dispute provides a powerful motivation for change, or at least the admission that change is needed and the promise that change will occur.

The Convention deal seems a little far fetched. How many could afford to go? Maybe if they had the Convention in Tulsa things may be different but even then you have to remember that all the AA locals combined are a third smaller than Local 100. 514 is a little guy at the convention.

The alliance with the Republicans. To me that's been tried before, remember PATCO?

I'm not trying to be dismissive, anything is better than just accepting things as they are. In order for there to be change there must be pressure. I'll continue to do what I can from where my peers put me, I'm not by any means saying "just leave it to me and I'll get er done". I'm fully aware of how the odds are stacked against the possibility of a single President from a small Local bringing change. I will say this, the electoral process has shifted things a little, not enough and sometimes advances end up being setbacks, people sometimes change for reasons unknown, but just within the last year we've seen change, as modest as it is. Every yes voter that has faced an election has lost. The challenge is to get their replacements with us before the international gets a hold of them. That's harder than it may seem because many are not willing to do what I do, which is expect that when I have an issue that has to be handled at their level I expect them to do it despite my criticisms of how they handle negotiations. Last week Zimmerman criticized me for that, citing how hard Don works, and he does, no doubt. However to me his position on what we should go for on the contract that he doesn't have to live under is unacceptable. His "credible offer" strategy,(whatever happened to "industry leading") the constant references to bankruptcy, and total avoidance of anything that would encourage us to take a more aggressive position at the table are things I simply can not ignore. We did manage to form a coalition within the committee, and some credit us with helping to get the TA rejected, as result we were put on the table committee. The process is slow, and prone to setbacks. History indicates that we will fail, however there are some new variables, the card drive, more of the membership is accessible electronically, our compensation is at historically low levels, the carrier despite their losses is awash with cash, and there is a demand, despite the economy, for skilled workers. Who knows if we can make it through August we may see a perfect storm?

 

[Tex-Mech]

JR and Pike doing the Int'ls work...? That's a big hell no! I dare you to say that to their faces! They will pimp slap you to the ground. BAM! You are reaching now to discredit them by saying that. You just undermined yourself with that comment. Everyone who knows JR and Pike knows they are not Int'l cheerleaders.

I will fly to LA today and tell JR to his face that he is doing the internationals work. Heck I got nothing better to do.

But I will tell my president the next time I see him.

Anyone who backs an international backed candidate like Stewart is doing the internationals work. Besides Larry has been an international backer since his scam team twu days when you used to run with Stewart skipping out of work.

 

[strikeforce]

It's a complete mess. Couple that to the fact that we don't have a central leader chosen by the members only makes things worse. Central authority is given over to former mechanics and fleet service clerks who have more than doubled their income as a result of their appointments Do you think they want to change things? The status quo serves them very well. Then you have Local Presidents, 20 of them, are they willing to allow their Locals to be consolidated into larger more effective ones?

There is no doubt we are in a mess. You offer some possible avenues but I disagree that the ways you describe are the only ways. There is no doubt in my mind that a representational dispute provides a powerful motivation for change, or at least the admission that change is needed and the promise that change will occur.

Undoubtedly, the TWU is a business first and labor representative for organized workers second!

Phat Don is nothing more than a regional manager for the TWU, much like Ken Durst is for AA. Don has to make his numbers year after year....those numbers are dues paying members. The TWU has a budget based on dues income from the locals and it's Don's job to make sure AA keeps as many workers on payroll regardless of pay and benefits. Now, my question to you and other presidents is "what extraordinary expenses does the international have besides the lucrative salaries and benefits to guys like Don & Bob Gless that make 3 to 4 times as much as AMT's???? It's to be expected that Don, Jim & Bob G. are going to be out of touch with the membership. They don't have to live within their means based on the AA pay structure for AMT's. Maybe they should, and if they did, I guarantee negotiations would be different. That would be a positive change for the better. I know I'm only dreaming, but what the hell!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Now, my question to you and other presidents is "what extraordinary expenses does the international have besides the lucrative salaries and benefits to guys like Don & Bob Gless that make 3 to 4 times as much as AMT's????

Just a guess but I would say that the majority of the expenses are for wages and benifits, as most service organizations tend to be, except the airlines now, those expenses are now lower than ever thanks to the utter capitulation of the unions.

You can find out by going to the DOL website and pulling up the LM-2 reports.

 

[paul1]

Is Kane still the guy in charge?

 

[jetmechjer]

Is Kane still the guy in charge?

yes the ball less wonder

 

[Overspeed]

Just a guess but I would say that the majority of the expenses are for wages and benifits, as most service organizations tend to be, except the airlines now, those expenses are now lower than ever thanks to the utter capitulation of the unions.

You can find out by going to the DOL website and pulling up the LM-2 reports.

How about your salary? Did you cut the salary back from what Bobby made when he was President? Probably not. Local 562 has the most lucrative officer salaries in the AA TWU Local's from what I hear. Did you refuse the dinners bought on the TWU Int'l credit card? Probably not. Face it Bob, when the mirror is turned on you it there is not an angel starring back.

 

[Bob Owens]

How about your salary? Did you cut the salary back from what Bobby made when he was President? Probably not. Local 562 has the most lucrative officer salaries in the AA TWU Local's from what I hear. Did you refuse the dinners bought on the TWU Int'l credit card? Probably not. Face it Bob, when the mirror is turned on you it there is not an angel starring back.

Yes it was cut when Chuck Schalk was in office. If the members pay is cut so is the Presidents override which is 10% over the highest rate. The salaries for officers and stewards have never been increased, they are the same as they were in1999. I believe our standing has slid. So as you can see it's still less than it was when Bobby Gless was President. Can't say that about the International, every year they get a raise. As far as dinners I don't have an International credit card. Do I eat out and put in for meals when I'm away? Of course, that's expected, even if I eat at Whataburger I could still eat cheaper at home. Maybe you think being away from you wife and family living out of Hotel rooms is a perk, and for many it's a nice change of pace when the company sends us for training but when you do it as often as i do the novelty wears off.

Is that all you got? Should we talk about cars, A5 travel and complimentary Admirals Club admission? Anybody ever wonder why you rarely ever see International reps sitting amongst the regular people?

 

[Overspeed]

Yes it was cut when Chuck Schalk was in office. If the members pay is cut so is the Presidents override which is 10% over the highest rate. The salaries for officers and stewards have never been increased, they are the same as they were in1999. I believe our standing has slid. So as you can see it's still less than it was when Bobby Gless was President. Can't say that about the International, every year they get a raise. As far as dinners I don't have an International credit card. Do I eat out and put in for meals when I'm away? Of course, that's expected, even if I eat at Whataburger I could still eat cheaper at home. Maybe you think being away from you wife and family living out of Hotel rooms is a perk, and for many it's a nice change of pace when the company sends us for training but when you do it as often as i do the novelty wears off.

Is that all you got? Should we talk about cars, A5 travel and complimentary Admirals Club admission? Anybody ever wonder why you rarely ever see International reps sitting amongst the regular people?

No that's not all I've got. The formula you spoke of for your salary is exactly what the Int'l does in the TWU Constitution. Their raises are contingent on what the members they represent get paid. When I say members I mean all their members rail, airline, casinos, university workers, NASA employees. So under your formula you get a raise based on the highest rate. So if all the AMTs got a pay cut or if they all lost their job except one but he was paid double you would get a raise? Bad formula.

Cars? Don't they use those cars to take people like yourself around. How about instead of you renting your own personal car every time you are in DFW at $400 a week (that's the price of a lease payment hmmm...) to roll like a pimp. How about those steak dinners you Presidents eat and the after hours places you guys go. How's the champagne room?

A5 travel? So let me get this straight. You want to see your Int'l reps out on the floor, meeting with members, and working with Federal legislators but you want them to fly standby? Yeah...try that and see much you see your family. Try never. Bob, you only see your little corner of the world.

Free Admiral's Club admission? Don't know much about that but if your rants on this BB are anything like the emails you probably send out a person would need a quiet place with internet to answer them in between flights.

Face it Bob. There are reasons for much of the things you call perks. If you make it to more senior level I would want you to have those things so you could focus on representing all of us. Every union has items like that in place

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip


Is that all you got? Should we talk about cars, A5 travel and complimentary Admirals Club admission? Anybody ever wonder why you rarely ever see International reps sitting amongst the regular people?

He really doesn't want to talk down re: his friends and colleagues, Bob - they may have promised him an extra piece of raisin pie for all the posting about his buddies' virtues.

It's comical to me, the number of pro-company boys and the number of pro-union boys telling everyone that they're better off now and how subservience to the "cause" is the only way.

They make this site sound more like a chapter from Orwell's "1984" - "Slavery is Freedom!"

Butt-snorkelers, all.

 

[Buck]

No that's not all I've got. The formula you spoke of for your salary is exactly what the Int'l does in the TWU Constitution. Their raises are contingent on what the members they represent get paid. When I say members I mean all their members rail, airline, casinos, university workers, NASA employees. So under your formula you get a raise based on the highest rate. So if all the AMTs got a pay cut or if they all lost their job except one but he was paid double you would get a raise? Bad formula.

Cars? Don't they use those cars to take people like yourself around. How about instead of you renting your own personal car every time you are in DFW at $400 a week (that's the price of a lease payment hmmm...) to roll like a pimp. How about those steak dinners you Presidents eat and the after hours places you guys go. How's the champagne room?

A5 travel? So let me get this straight. You want to see your Int'l reps out on the floor, meeting with members, and working with Federal legislators but you want them to fly standby? Yeah...try that and see much you see your family. Try never. Bob, you only see your little corner of the world.

Free Admiral's Club admission? Don't know much about that but if your rants on this BB are anything like the emails you probably send out a person would need a quiet place with internet to answer them in between flights.

Face it Bob. There are reasons for much of the things you call perks. If you make it to more senior level I would want you to have those things so you could focus on representing all of us. Every union has items like that in place

There are reasons for much of the things you call perks. If you make it to more senior level I would want you to have those things so you could focus on representing all of us. Every union has items like that in place

So what about Crew Chief's. Shouldn't they get more perks than the lowly mechanic?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

How about your salary? Did you cut the salary back from what Bobby made when he was President? Probably not. Local 562 has the most lucrative officer salaries in the AA TWU Local's from what I hear. Did you refuse the dinners bought on the TWU Int'l credit card? Probably not. Face it Bob, when the mirror is turned on you it there is not an angel starring back.

Don/Bob/Kevin,

I have a better picture of you now after the above post. You are like that professor in the Harry Potter movies with a big bulging eye who can't see. I state this because you are BLIND to the differences between your beloved twu international and the locals.

If you have a problem with the salaries of LOCAL officers make a motion to change that local's by-laws and then vote on it. But unlike the INTERNATIONAL officer's pay we, the membership, do not have that ability. You sound as if you are defending Bobby "lower your expectations" Gless.

As for your mirror comment I am sure that Bob sees his reflection and is not ashamed of who he is. On the other hand, if you held up a mirror what would you see? Besides a fat, eye bulging limping professor that is. I think you would see a twu int. officer hiding behind an alias who is too afraid to be accountable.

 

[DallasConehead]

A5 travel? So let me get this straight. You want to see your Int'l reps out on the floor, meeting with members, and working with Federal legislators but you want them to fly standby? Yeah...try that and see much you see your family. Try never. Bob, you only see your little corner of the world.

Hmmm , lets ponder this for a moment, what has all those meetings with federal legislators done for any of us lately? Name one thing goof ball.

 

[furp]

Don/Bob/Kevin,

I have a better picture of you now after the above post. You are like that professor in the Harry Potter movies with a big bulging eye who can't see. I state this because you are BLIND to the differences between your beloved twu international and the locals.

If you have a problem with the salaries of LOCAL officers make a motion to change that local's by-laws and then vote on it. But unlike the INTERNATIONAL officer's pay we, the membership, do not have that ability. You sound as if you are defending Bobby "lower your expectations" Gless.

As for your mirror comment I am sure that Bob sees his reflection and is not ashamed of who he is. On the other hand, if you held up a mirror what would you see? Besides a fat, eye bulging limping professor that is. I think you would see a twu int. officer hiding behind an alias who is too afraid to be accountable.

If he held that mirror down low..........no lower.................no really low he might be able to see his penis below that prtruding, large, bought and paid for by the union belly!!! That is something he has not seen since he had a Krystal Ball! Keep looking for the balls but they are on Little Jimmy's desk!!!