TWU negotiations.........what?

[toroshark]

I don't understand? Didn't you and Bob say if we voted down the TA we would get a better deal? Now TUL is the bad guy because they may now get some changes to make them vote yes? Didn't you guys think about all these internal factors before you told us to vote down the TA? AA now knows that they need more TUL votes to drive whatever they want through regardless of the line. Awesome strategy TWU brain trust led by Bob. You guys only succeeded in giving AA the info they needed to tweak the contract to pass.

Keep blaming everyone else. If you know the factors you are facing, isn't it wise to either change your strategy or accept your fate? Otherwise, your fate will be decided for you.

There you go showing your utter incompetence in the reading of the written word. I guess the diploma mills you attended did not stress reading comprehension. Or could your ability to read be adequate and you are just LYING? Everything you post sounds exactly like the full color printout attached to the failed T/A. Did you write it?

 

[Buck]

Believe what you want...

Be it someone who sits at the negotiations table or someone who does not.....

 

[Bob Owens]

I don't understand? Didn't you and Bob say if we voted down the TA we would get a better deal? Now TUL is the bad guy because they may now get some changes to make them vote yes? Didn't you guys think about all these internal factors before you told us to vote down the TA? AA now knows that they need more TUL votes to drive whatever they want through regardless of the line. Awesome strategy TWU brain trust led by Bob. You guys only succeeded in giving AA the info they needed to tweak the contract to pass.

Keep blaming everyone else. If you know the factors you are facing, isn't it wise to either change your strategy or accept your fate? Otherwise, your fate will be decided for you.

I said that we needed to get a better deal and that the TA was totally unacceptable. If another shoddy deal like last years TA gets ramrodded through again then the members must be prepared to do the same thing again, Vote No and be ready to engage in Self Help. The two remining major carriers that pay less than AA are also in mediation, and UAL rejected a deal that was better than ours.

Here's the problem with the way we are structured. Sure the Table Committee is made up of all No voters but the International still gives the Full Committee authority over the table committee. The Full Committee formed the Table Committee, not the International. The International at any time could disband the whole thing and take over negotiations. So for the most part the same guys who voted to bring back the TA still have final say over the process, if the company comes back and says "Here is our final best offer" it goes back to the Full Committee. Some of the guys on the committee only show up when the International needs their YES vote. None of those guys even belong to the title group. I'm betting it will be a full house in August.

The electoral process has made some positive changes especially in MIA 😉, but most of the guys who voted YES have not faced an election. Those that did were voted out . How will the YES voters look to their members if we bring back something better? IMO them keeping their position is dependant on us not bringing back something better. (the opposite can be said for the NO voters, agreeing to bring back anything thats not better will get us voted out) This way they can say "I told you so".Thats why, normally, in most unions, if a TA is rejected they replace the Negotaitions Committee, here all we did was take the NO voters and send them back and forth to 'negotiate" while the other guys stayed home and saved money while distancing themselves from Negotiations. "Dont ask me I was voted out of it" even though its likely the same person saying that was the guy who made the motion and the nominations, in other words voted himself off the committee. The Chief Negotiator remained in place, and he was in favor of the agreement. Final authority to take any action still rests with the Full committee that accepted the TA.

My limited ability to influence the outcome is not based in legality, legally I'm a witness, but its as a witness that I have some means to affect the outcome by relaying what I see (granted its my perspective) to the members. Thats why I'm so routinely attacked by some who want to keep what they do secret. I look at the results of the last 25 years that I've been with AA and they are not good. Although I still feel honored and for the most part enjoy the challenge I didnt take this job to line myself up with an escape route, I took it to save my career.

 

[odie01]

I said that we needed to get a better deal and that the TA was totally unacceptable. If another shoddy deal like last years TA gets ramrodded through again then the members must be prepared to do the same thing again and Vote No.

Here's the problem with the way we are structured. Sure the Table Committee is made up of all No voters but the International still gives the Full Committee authority over the table committee. So the same guys who voted to bring back the TA still have final say over the process, if the company comes back and says "Here is our final best offer" it goes back to the Full Committee. Some of the guys on the committee only show up when the International needs their YES vote. None of those guys even belong to the title group. The electoral process has made some positive changes especially in MIA 😉. but most of the guys who voted YES have not faced an election. those that did were voted out How will the YEs voters look to their members if we bring back something better? Them keeping their position is dependant on us not bringing back something better. This way they can say "I told you so".Thats why, normally, in most unions, if a TA is rejected they replace the Negotaitions Committee, here all we did was take the NO voters and send them back and forth to 'negotiate" while the other guys stayed home. The Chief Negotiator remained in place, and he was in favor of the agreement. Final authority to take any action still rests with the committee that accepted the TA.

My ability to influence the outcome is not based in legality, legally I'm a witness, but its as a witness that I have some means to affect the outcome by relaying what I see (granted its my perspective) to the members. Thats why I'm so routinely attacked by some who want to keep what they do secret.

Bob,
Is it true that we had a release letter typed up and ready to submitt, but their was no date, so Jim Little rejected the submission to be released? Also, when the table committee gets backdoored by the twu bootlicker presidents, and the international, will the table committee continue to support this corruption or will they lobby their members to sign authorization cards for a more democratic craft union?

 

[Mr Red]

Bob,
Is it true that we had a release letter typed up and ready to submitt, but their was no date, so Jim Little rejected the submission to be released? Also, when the table committee gets backdoored by the twu bootlicker presidents, and the international, will the table committee continue to support this corruption or will they lobby their members to sign authorization cards for a more democratic craft union?

I dont wish to continue paying DUES to have my lifestyle lowered any more.Let the TWU play their last game,I'm ready for new representation !!!LETS DO IT !!

 

[Rogallo]

bahhh......bahhh......bahhh. Pass the Kool-Aid please!!!!

 

[strikeforce]

I don't understand? Didn't you and Bob say if we voted down the TA we would get a better deal? Now TUL is the bad guy because they may now get some changes to make them vote yes? Didn't you guys think about all these internal factors before you told us to vote down the TA? AA now knows that they need more TUL votes to drive whatever they want through regardless of the line. Awesome strategy TWU brain trust led by Bob. You guys only succeeded in giving AA the info they needed to tweak the contract to pass.

Keep blaming everyone else. If you know the factors you are facing, isn't it wise to either change your strategy or accept your fate? Otherwise, your fate will be decided for you.

....and where did Don V. & Bobby Gless go to see why the T/A failed???? They didn't come to ORD, so where do you think they went?????

Bob get's blamed because he's on this board.....maybe the guys on this forum from DFW, AFW & DWH, and even TUL should storm the ATD....isn't it located in your backyard??????? Why don't you guys spend more time grilling Videtich, Gordon, and the other goofs at the ATD instead of bashing one person on the team. Does Pike, Cirri, JR and the other negotiating team members get bashed like Owens???? I don't see their names getting mudslinged like Bob??????

 

[TWU informer]

There have been many before Bob Owens believe that "doing the right thing" is all that is needed to change the strucutre of the TWU.
They too have been defeated by the structure designed to keep control by the International.

In my opinion there are only a few ways to effect real change for the future of the Mechanic and Related at American Airlines.

The first would be to sign cards and attempt to get a representational election.
This has been tried many times, and the closest we came exposed an even deeper and entrinched corruption and coalition with AA Management.
Combined with the small amount of political influence via C.O.P.E., but this was enough to protect the dictators from the membership balloting for change using Federal Agencies governing our direction.

The second, which has never happened would be to organize some type of a large scale meltdown or semi-riot using members instead of delegates inside or outside the TWU Constitutional Convention.
A large scale protest, even bigger than the one's the TWU like to demonstrate against managment over bonus awards would get some media attention. But this demonstration would have to insist on nothing less than FULL DEMOCRATIC changes and stop at nothing to obtain those changes. The hard part here is to find enough members who care enough to travel and participate.

One other possibility is to make an alliance with the Republican Party, expose factual information about how undemocratic this union is, and a large group of members request legislation that will change the law governing structures of unions as a whole that will place the dues paying member in control and stop this communisitic approach to something already governed by federal law. There are already a large number of Republican Union members within the TWU, most created by the TWU, and if those Democrat union members could swallow their allegiance long enough to forge an allaince with the Republican Union members then something might actually happen. It is no secret that the TWU Political Influence wont go very far when it comes to Republican law makers. If Democrat Union members would reach out and side with their "political enemies" we might just see some legislation that will harness in the uncontrollable dictators. Using the TWU's biggest and most powerful enemy (Republicans" to assist us in the needed changes in the best idea yet and has the best chance to succeed.

Maybe a combination of number 2 and number 3 on this list would be in order.

Just a thought. But change is probably only still a dream.

 

[odie01]

There have been many before Bob Owens believe that "doing the right thing" is all that is needed to change the strucutre of the TWU.
They too have been defeated by the structure designed to keep control by the International.

In my opinion there are only a few ways to effect real change for the future of the Mechanic and Related at American Airlines.

The first would be to sign cards and attempt to get a representational election.
This has been tried many times, and the closest we came exposed an even deeper and entrinched corruption and coalition with AA Management.
Combined with the small amount of political influence via C.O.P.E., but this was enough to protect the dictators from the membership balloting for change using Federal Agencies governing our direction.

The second, which has never happened would be to organize some type of a large scale meltdown or semi-riot using members instead of delegates inside or outside the TWU Constitutional Convention.
A large scale protest, even bigger than the one's the TWU like to demonstrate against managment over bonus awards would get some media attention. But this demonstration would have to insist on nothing less than FULL DEMOCRATIC changes and stop at nothing to obtain those changes. The hard part here is to find enough members who care enough to travel and participate.

One other possibility is to make an alliance with the Republican Party, expose factual information about how undemocratic this union is, and a large group of members request legislation that will change the law governing structures of unions as a whole that will place the dues paying member in control and stop this communisitic approach to something already governed by federal law. There are already a large number of Republican Union members, if those Democrat union members could swallow their allegiance long enough to forge an allaince with the Republican Union members then something might actually happen. It is no secret that the TWU Political Influence wont go very far when it comes to Republican law makers. If Democrat Union members would reach out and side with their "political enemies" we might just see some legislation that will harness in the uncontrollable dictators. Using the TWU's biggest and most powerful enemy (Republicans" to assist us in the needed changes in the best idea yet and has the best chance to succeed.

Maybe a combination of number 2 and number 3 on this list would be in order.

Just a thought. But change is probably only still a dream.

Number 1 is the easiest option, the rest of the system is waiting onTULE to get at least 25%, of its roughly 6000 eligable sheeple, to learn how to use a pen and accomplish this task. Once again Informer, you have some good ideas, but you can't getem' done sitting behind a computer screen.

 

[TWU informer]

Number 1 is the easiest option, the rest of the system is waiting onTULE to get at least 25%, of its roughly 6000 eligable sheeple, to learn how to use a pen and accomplish this task. Once again Informer, you have some good ideas, but you can't getem' done sitting behind a computer screen.

I've done more to get representation cards signed than you will ever begin to get accomplished.

That did not work!

But of course you have all the answer. But been there and done that.

 

[odie01]

I've done more to get representation cards signed than you will ever begin to get accomplished.

That did not work!

But of course you have all the answer. But been there and done that.

I've heard about your efforts with the AMFA drive and although I was not involved, I do not doubt that you have collected your fair share of cards in Tulsa. Fact is Dave, TULE fears change, and will remain status quo unless we have more participants/organizers to collect cards and kill the cancer. Tell you what, start a card drive in TULE for the union of your choice, anything but the twu, and I will get you 1000 cards from AFW. Your station Dave is the sticking point in this AMP drive today, and it was back then with AMFA. Why? Is it fear that the base may shut down? Hell, they (AA), will shut down what they want, when they want, with the twu, AMP, AMFA, IBT, ect. Or is it because their have been generations of mechanics raised on the twu mantra and slogans that they are the only union that offers job protection. Tell us why TULE maintenance base is not supporting change but the other two bases are 70% all for it!

 

[787nightmare]

There have been many before Bob Owens believe that "doing the right thing" is all that is needed to change the strucutre of the TWU.
They too have been defeated by the structure designed to keep control by the International.

In my opinion there are only a few ways to effect real change for the future of the Mechanic and Related at American Airlines.

The first would be to sign cards and attempt to get a representational election.
This has been tried many times, and the closest we came exposed an even deeper and entrinched corruption and coalition with AA Management.
Combined with the small amount of political influence via C.O.P.E., but this was enough to protect the dictators from the membership balloting for change using Federal Agencies governing our direction.

The second, which has never happened would be to organize some type of a large scale meltdown or semi-riot using members instead of delegates inside or outside the TWU Constitutional Convention.
A large scale protest, even bigger than the one's the TWU like to demonstrate against managment over bonus awards would get some media attention. But this demonstration would have to insist on nothing less than FULL DEMOCRATIC changes and stop at nothing to obtain those changes. The hard part here is to find enough members who care enough to travel and participate.

One other possibility is to make an alliance with the Republican Party, expose factual information about how undemocratic this union is, and a large group of members request legislation that will change the law governing structures of unions as a whole that will place the dues paying member in control and stop this communisitic approach to something already governed by federal law. There are already a large number of Republican Union members within the TWU, most created by the TWU, and if those Democrat union members could swallow their allegiance long enough to forge an allaince with the Republican Union members then something might actually happen. It is no secret that the TWU Political Influence wont go very far when it comes to Republican law makers. If Democrat Union members would reach out and side with their "political enemies" we might just see some legislation that will harness in the uncontrollable dictators. Using the TWU's biggest and most powerful enemy (Republicans" to assist us in the needed changes in the best idea yet and has the best chance to succeed.

Maybe a combination of number 2 and number 3 on this list would be in order.

Just a thought. But change is probably only still a dream.

Actually a pretty good post there Informer...but you better don the hi temp- silver firefighter gear cause you're going to get torched big time for suggesting we summon help from the GOP.

I've always been of the belief that you don't have to vote party line Dem to be a strong union man. Then again, the GOP has shown me time and time again, they're nothing more than corporate concubines. I've concluded neither party represents the American peoples interests anymore.

As I see it with regard to TULE, (again)...most of the unlicensed mechs, back shop/machinists guys are sworn to the TWU. They are the ones that will be practically impossible to reach. I mean, don't they see what the TWU is doing?? Evidently they're perfectly content?...

odie, "Informer", I know, was very active in the AMFA drive back in early 2000-2003 era....

 

[TWU informer]

Actually a pretty good post there Informer...but you better don the hi temp- silver firefighter gear cause you're going to get torched big time for suggesting we summon help from the GOP.

I've always been of the belief that you don't have to vote party line Dem to be a strong union man. Then again, the GOP has shown me time and time again, they're nothing more than corporate concubines. I've concluded neither party represents the American peoples interests anymore.

As I see it with regard to TULE, (again)...most of the unlicensed mechs, back shop/machinists guys are sworn to the TWU. They are the ones that will be practically impossible to reach. I mean, don't they see what the TWU is doing?? Evidently they're perfectly content?...

odie, "Informer", I know, was very active in the AMFA drive back in early 2000-2003 era....

I agree that there are no "friendly" politicians for the working man. I am just grasping at hopeful ideas to break the bondage of TWU emperialism

 

[Tex-Mech]

. Does Pike, Cirri, JR and the other negotiating team members get bashed like Owens???? I don't see their names getting mudslinged like Bob??????

Pike and JR are to busy doing the internationals work trying to screw with DFW. Anyone who backs a international wannabee in Stewart is not acting in the members best interest. I can't wait to question Larry at the next meeting on who gave him permission to use our locals letterhead to endorse the internationals boy.

 

[Overspeed]

Pike and JR are to busy doing the internationals work trying to screw with DFW. Anyone who backs a international wannabee in Stewart is not acting in the members best interest. I can't wait to question Larry at the next meeting on who gave him permission to use our locals letterhead to endorse the internationals boy.

JR and Pike doing the Int'ls work...? That's a big hell no! I dare you to say that to their faces! They will pimp slap you to the ground. BAM! You are reaching now to discredit them by saying that. You just undermined yourself with that comment. Everyone who knows JR and Pike knows they are not Int'l cheerleaders.