TWU negotiations.........what?

[Bob Owens]

Might be a good time to start another card drive.

The International has gone back to their old ways. During the negotiations in 2000 they let out information because thats what AMFA was doing, now that they feel the AMFA threat is gone they are going back to their heavy handed dictatorial tactics of sequestering 21 local leaders, on company property, then steering them to a predetermined conclusion while making them believe that they actually came to that conclusion through bargaining, then make those people go back and sell yet another inferior deal to their members.

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

Might be a good time to start another card drive.

Good idea, I went through the locker and found about 30 cards left over from the last drive, should have them all signed in about 5 minutes.

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

Good idea, I went through the locker and found about 30 cards left over from the last drive, should have them all signed in about 5 minutes.

Well that was easy, even the Tulsa field trip crew was begging for cards.

 

[Nabeel]

Hi, This post of mine is very beneficial and informative, however there are some specific facts or information that I require. If anyone can help me in this matter then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

 

[FWAAA]

If they want to stay out of the news and media thats fine with me.

I am not complaining about a "news" blackout, I am complaining that some toolbox mechanic or possibly not even that is negotiating my livelyhood under the manipulation and control of a group of International Leaders that I never will get a chance to vote out of office regardless of the outcome.

When I said "news blackout" I wasn't referring to the news media - I meant an absence of information about the specific proposals and areas of tentative agreement until a complete TA was reached. Sorry 'bout that.

Asking questions and debating is the staple of American Freedom and Democracy but when it comes to my pay and benefits you and others want to throw that freedom out the window.

Trying for that Hyperbole of the Year Award? Come on, I have no interest in stifling your rights to ask questions or debate. I certainly have no interest in cheapening your American Freedoms or Democracy.

I can understand why a negotiating team doesn't want the membership discussing and debating the specifics prior to reaching a TA. Juries don't get to deliberate until the conclusion of the proceedings for the same reason.

Here's an example why the news blackout (and why it makes sense for the negotiating team to ignore Chuck's demands for info):

Suppose the negotiators tentatively agree to changes on several points. But later on, reaching a final agreement requires that they give back on some of those items in exchange for something else that they view as more beneficial. Having 25,000 members latching onto each specific item before the TA is finalized would likely make it more difficult or perhaps impossible to give on any of those preliminary items, making it much more difficult to reach a TA. Feel free to disagree if your experience in negotiating contracts is inconsistent with that possibility.

I fully agree with you about the negotiating team. Previously, you and others have posted about the silliness; Team TWU marches into the room in lockstep and loudly chants the Pledge of Allegiance. THAT alone would crack me up if I were sitting on the other side of the table. Not because I hate the Flag or the Pledge (quite the contrary, in fact) but because that skit doesn't advance the negotiations - it's an adversarial process after all. And I would not want to be represented in those negotiations by the International reps and a few mechanics and rampers. I'd want professional negotiators working for me. When I want something fixed, I call someone who spends their career fixing things. When I need someone to negotiate, I call someone who does it for a living.

If the Labor Movement ever wanted to look in the mirror and see why most workers even the deprived sweatshop emlpoyee never seeks the assistance of organize labor, now and this issue would be a great place to start.

Oh so many that are required by law to pay dues and belong to the union are passionately anti-union and #### like this is the reason why.

Agree with you there. I'm skeptical that all of the decline in private industry worker union membership in this country is due solely to really clever management tactics to kill or stifle unions. I'm also skeptical that it's due to the alleged stupidity of the 87% or so of private industry workers who don't belong to unions. While there are lots of intelligent union members, they don't hold a monopoly on intelligence. Union leadership, IMO, must shoulder a lot of the blame. As I've said before, union membership among government employees is due in part to the absence of competition for most of those government services. When there aren't any alternatives (like with police and fire and mass transit, for instance), elected officials always give in to worker demands. Unfortunately, most private industry employers face competition both here and abroad. That alone limits what private industry unions can hope to accomplish for their members. Certainly doesn't limit the promises and snake oil the union leadership tries to sell the membership.

Anyway - good luck replacing that nonresponsive bus drivers' union. You guys deserve better.

 

[Boomer]

Staart making the motions to cut off negotiations funding and bring your Local President home.

In the meantime, we can download the cards from the AMFA website.

 

[Bob Owens]

I can understand why a negotiating team doesn't want the membership discussing and debating the specifics prior to reaching a TA. Juries don't get to deliberate until the conclusion of the proceedings for the same reason.

Here's an example why the news blackout (and why it makes sense for the negotiating team to ignore Chuck's demands for info):

Suppose the negotiators tentatively agree to changes on several points. But later on, reaching a final agreement requires that they give back on some of those items in exchange for something else that they view as more beneficial.

Shouldnt the members be the ones to decide whats "more benificial"?

Having 25,000 members latching onto each specific item before the TA is finalized would likely make it more difficult or perhaps impossible to give on any of those preliminary items, making it much more difficult to reach a TA. Feel free to disagree if your experience in negotiating contracts is inconsistent with that possibility.

AMFA has open negotiations and it doesnt prevent them from reaching TA's. The reason for secrecy is because its easier for the International wear down 21 people who are kept away from their families, sequestered from the membership and locked into a room on company property. They get to isolate and brainwash them without any feedback from the floor.

The members who want this information understand that in negotiations that things can change however to use the excuse that there is a possibility that it could make coming to a TA more difficult as the reason for keeping the members in the dark is BS. On the one hand Union leaders complain about a lack of membership particiaption, then when they show an interest they are told to go sit in the dark until "we" feel like telling you something. Its hypocritical. You endorse hiring professional negotiators, well would you jsut let them negotaiate a deal without any input from you? Thats what the International is doing.

I fully agree with you about the negotiating team. Previously, you and others have posted about the silliness; Team TWU marches into the room in lockstep and loudly chants the Pledge of Allegiance. THAT alone would crack me up if I were sitting on the other side of the table. Not because I hate the Flag or the Pledge (quite the contrary, in fact) but because that skit doesn't advance the negotiations - it's an adversarial process after all.

You forgot about the prayer.

Agree with you there. I'm skeptical that all of the decline in private industry worker union membership in this country is due solely to really clever management tactics to kill or stifle unions. I'm also skeptical that it's due to the alleged stupidity of the 87% or so of private industry workers who don't belong to unions. While there are lots of intelligent union members, they don't hold a monopoly on intelligence. Union leadership, IMO, must shoulder a lot of the blame.

At least 90% of it. The unions have failed to restructure. Unions are supposed to unite workers, however as union membership has declined the number of unions have not. Many, if not most are simply business unions, more interested in gaining more dues even if it comes at the expense of wages. Unions compete by becoming appealing to corporations because AFL-CIO rules prevent them from growing by appealing to competing unions members. By giving corporations like AMR a competative edge in labor costs unions like the TWU grow in membership at the expense of other unions. This type of competitions is permitted by the AFL-CIO, however if the workers at AMR wanted the same types of contracts that that would make AMR an equal competitor to those places where they have better union representation by going to better unions the AFL-CIO blocks them. The AFL-CIO is made up of union leaders, who like the Cosa Nostra have agreed to territories along the lines of corporations and will not compete for members. The members are not the "ultimate authority" as many Constitutions claim, they are the commidity of the organization. Any attempt by the members to take control, challenge authority or change representation are severely repressed or inhibited usually with the assistance of the government and its courts.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The failure of all mechanics regardless of union affiliation to rally behind the US Air, Northwest, Continental and United airlines bankruptcy, abrogating contracts and sending work overseas is part of our own demise and in my opinion anti-union behavior. Nothing short of conduct unbecoming of a union! shame on the unions for watching on the sidelines, pointing blame, and letting it happen on their watch! This movie will hopefully fill in the gaps and bring the truth out of many myths. This is only a 6 minute trailer but I am anxious to see the whole movie.

www.redtailmovie.com/trailer.html

http://www.redtailmovie.com/trailer.html

 

[Chuck Schalk]

February 3, 2008 no official written response from TWU on seeing tentative agreements as they are tentatively agreed upon.

I receieved my answer verbally from President Iuliano...........NO as per the process

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The new formula for Ex-TWA mechaincs coming off the street is being done wrong and who told me this? The TWA mechanics on the floor. This was confirmed by our local leadership. The TWU international and the company have signed off on it. But don't worry we still have the grievance process to help resolve the issue.

It seems nothing changes with this pathetic union

 

[FRMR12B]

The new formula for Ex-TWA mechaincs coming off the street is being done wrong and who told me this? The TWA mechanics on the floor. This was confirmed by our local leadership. The TWU international and the company have signed off on it. But don't worry we still have the grievance process to help resolve the issue.

It seems nothing changes with this pathetic union

There is a NEW formula? I understand these negotiations are top secret but has anything leaked out in reference to the juniority list in the event of layoff? Or changes to article 15?

 

[Bob Owens]

There is a NEW formula? I understand these negotiations are top secret but has anything leaked out in reference to the juniority list in the event of layoff? Or changes to article 15?

Instead of losing day for day after 3 years ex-TWAers will only lose 25% of a day per day.

 

[FRMR12B]

Instead of losing day for day after 3 years ex-TWAers will only lose 25% of a day per day.

Only at 25% stations right? Sorry if this is old but I am just coming back onboard and attempting to understand the rules.

 

[ch53D]

Only at 25% stations right? Sorry if this is old but I am just coming back onboard and attempting to understand the rules.

Chaser (Arbitrator) has changed the rules at least 29 times, if not more since the merger. Many of us have been here for all of this and don’t understand the seniority list with Chaser changing it every time he changes his panties.

 

[MCI transplant]

Chaser (Arbitrator) has changed the rules at least 29 times, if not more since the merger. Many of us have been here for all of this and don’t understand the seniority list with Chaser changing it every time he changes his panties.

<_< ------- It's got to the point where Chaser refuses to put anything down on paper! During the Michigan Lawsuit, where a displaced exTWA FSC tried to invoke his "Exit Seniority" ruling. When Chaser was asked, by the Court, to clarify himself, he only would say "come see me, and I'll explain it to you!" He has come up with, what? Twenty eight, or twenty nine, Amendments to his original ruling?!!! :blink: