TWU negotiations.........what?

[Hopeful]

<_< ------ Hopeful, maybe it's me, but as I see it, in the eyes of the FAA, it don't matter who got their hands dirty! The liability is the same! If something goes wrong, they're both on the hook!!! The difference is that the mechanic doesn't have a license to loose, the AMT does!!!------ But yes, an unlicensed mechanic can do the work, ------- if his work is bought off by a licensed AMT.

MCI, PLEASE GO BACK READ MY LAST POST..I said liability is equal....What are you not reading in my post? I said it is equal......between the person(s) doing the work and the person inspecting it....

here's the post again...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
MCI..Where did I say the crew chief/ inspector is NOT taking some liability for it? The back check IS liability...
What I am saying is that the crew chief is not actually DOING the work of the mechanic on non licensed mechanic. But he still signs for the RII.
When a tire gets changed that is a RII item,,,the crew chief watches the tire change to ensure the RII item is done correctly. he doesn't turn a wrench, doesn't get his hands dirty..Just watches.

And if it still is not done correctly, the crew chief is equally responsible as is the mechanic(s) who did the tire change.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


read the last line!
I don't know how many times I need to say that the liability and responsibility is EQUAL.....


And yes you are right, the licensed mechanic had ther certificate to lose as opposed to the non licensed.
But as far a airlines are concerned, it's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Hopeful]

<_< ------ Hopeful, how long have you been working in this business?----- Reality check here! ------ If something bad happens, God forbid!, AA, or any other Company, will through it's AMT's/ Inspectors/ Crew Chief's to the wolfs in a minute, to deflect liability from themselves!!!------ When was the last time you saw a AA lawyer representing a AMT/Inspector/Crew Chief at a FAA hearing? :blink:

4 decades, MCI.....
Tell me where an A&P license is ALWAYS required?
You know damn well that when you or even I started in this business, many an "old timer" had an A license and some had an E... Remember the E, MCI?
i worked side by side with many an OLD TIMER who had only one ticket and signed for work where he did not have the ticket..


And that, my friend was in OVERHAUL!

Do you know how many mechanics at the old PAN AM maintenance facility here at JFK only had an A license and worked in the ENGINE shop?

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Your absolutely right Hopeful!------ I stand corrected!!! :unsure: But if anything should happen, it would be the mechanic standing in front of FAA, without Company representation! If your point is the Company would take some of the blame also!------ Yes they would!---- Which is as it should be!!!----- But believe me! They would try and minimize that by offering the mechanic up as a sacrificial lamb!!!-------- But I guess we all knew that when we excepted this job! And that my friend is the main reason you should insist on being properly compensated for that added liability!!!

 

[Rogallo]

You guys sure can wander off topic!!!

 

[Hopeful]

<_< ------ Your absolutely right Hopeful!------ I stand corrected!!! :unsure: But if anything should happen, it would be the mechanic standing in front of FAA, without Company representation! If your point is the Company would take some of the blame also!------ Yes they would!---- Which is as it should be!!!----- But believe me! They would try and minimize that by offering the mechanic up as a sacrificial lamb!!!-------- But I guess we all knew that when we excepted this job! And that my friend is the main reason you should insist on being properly compensated for that added liability!!!

Absolutely! The licensed mechanic gets fed to wolves first, then the person doing the back check or inspection. That's the advantage of having licensed mechanics. the company gets to blame them for everything. Once they relinquish that authority to their own operating certificate, boy oh boy let the fines fly.

So even in overhaul where more of the intricate work requires a back check even on a licensed mechanic, the company will always blame the workers.
Airlines love, just love, to preach the "SAFETY IS OUR NUMBER ONE CONCERN......" mantra....But when you're taking too long pulling up maintenance manual procedures, you have two supervisors and a manager breathing down your neck.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Absolutely! The licensed mechanic gets fed to wolves first, then the person doing the back check or inspection. That's the advantage of having licensed mechanics. the company gets to blame them for everything. Once they relinquish that authority to their own operating certificate, boy oh boy let the fines fly.

So even in overhaul where more of the intricate work requires a back check even on a licensed mechanic, the company will always blame the workers.
Airlines love, just love, to preach the "SAFETY IS OUR NUMBER ONE CONCERN......" mantra....But when you're taking too long pulling up maintenance manual procedures, you have two supervisors and a manager breathing down your neck.

Safety indeed.

The only solution to this entire mess is exactly as the computer figured out at the end of the movie War Games - "The only way to win is not to play".

 

[strikeforce]

Rogallo's right....you guys went full tilt from my original post regarding "ASM's".

Bottom line on this whole thing is......the union is working with the company to keep as much OH work in house, in exchange for a discounted labor rate, whether licensed or unlicensed, to do this work. The only way both groups can do this is to create new lower wage classifications, and keep the AMT labor rate cost neutral. I think it's the objective of the INTL and company. I also believe why there's so much friction between our negotiating teams and the INTL.

Sometimes I wonder if it's the company that creates there own proposals or the INTL that writes it for them.

I asked in a previous post about the company's last proposal in June, where the company proposed to outsource more OH in exchange for NO RIFS to the workers affected by the outsourcing......Can Bob Owens elaborate on the overall labor costs if the company can afford to pay 3P to do this work, and afford to keep all these workers on payroll? It doesn't make sense to me, and I get the feeling that the overall pay for all AMT's, Line & OH, will be subsidized.....i.e. kept at current rates....Cost Neutral....in order to get this done.

 

[1AA]

I had a discussion at work with one of my coworkers and a very good point was asked. Last year we voted on the entire T/A package and voted it down. So why is it that the Union is NOT starting from scratch covering every article of the contract? Who decides which articles do not change and which ones are renegotiated? I mean if you think about it we voted on the entire T/A not just parts of it. It should all be renegotiated from scratch. How does the union know which articles are good and bad if no one asked the membership what they want to see changed? No one asked me what I liked or disliked on the last T/A.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

I had a discussion at work with one of my coworkers and a very good point was asked. Last year we voted on the entire T/A package and voted it down. So why is it that the Union is NOT starting from scratch covering every article of the contract? Who decides which articles do not change and which ones are renegotiated? I mean if you think about it we voted on the entire T/A not just parts of it. It should all be renegotiated from scratch. How does the union know which articles are good and bad if no one asked the membership what they want to see changed? No one asked me what I liked or disliked on the last T/A.

Well, here at AFW we had plenty of ways to let them know what we did and did not find acceptable. IIRC, we had special meetings and surveys to complete. I agree we shot down the ENTIRE t/a but do we really want to have them negotiating over bulletin boards again? They know what`s important to the masses and will peddle to them. Maybe that`s too optimistic. The company is under no REAL pressure to negotiate in good faith. The twu does not want to hear about it either. I assume you`ve seen the "update" from 2 weeks ago. How the international does not want a bunch of emails from the membership. Yeah, I`m impressed with that. So I keep dropping little missives here and there. Flood their inbox guys, if nothing else it`ll give them something to do.

 

[Vortilon]

As suspected the contract talks go nowhere.... Still no TA in sight.

 

[paul1]

update, looks like the twu took the companys side on the 4 new t/a's

 

[Tater Salad]

sorry misinfo..

 

[TWU informer]

Wow! Good thing the International was called in to help out.
What a difference that made!!! :blink:

 

[iluvaa]

another week of nothing see ya next month, this is comical and so sad

 

[DFWrobAMT]

another week of nothing see ya next month, this is comical and so sad

at what point do we give up on this joke of a negotiating committee? a YEAR now and we've made NO progress? when do we give up and do something? there's no excuse that we had a failed TA a year ago, and a year later we're no closer now than we were a year ago!! The TWU and the company are LOVING this, we're being made a mockery of everytime they get together as they cash in on us day after day with all their holidays, pay raises and bonus's in their pockets. Sign an AMP card and put some heat on the joke of a TWU that we call our union. They have theirs, there's no pressure to give us anything. this meeting every 4 weeks is a freaking joke, what do they do all week? there, i've vented. still wont help anything, some people are just dead set in 'staying the course'.