TWU negotiations.........what?

[iluvaa]

Maybe the carnival had mimes instead of clowns, trying to get out of the box, or a room with no walls.

Odie if you were making a decent wage plus a bit of OT what would you do ? Im sure you will thrash me for saying this but that is what we are dealing with, in tulsa with a bit a OT we are doing ok so what is the answer. I know in the line stations like JFK ORD LAX that is not the case but but what would you like me to do, i know the line stations need more but im not in control of the negotations

 

[iluvaa]

Odie if you were making a decent wage plus a bit of OT what would you do ? Im sure you will thrash me for saying this but that is what we are dealing with, in tulsa with a bit a OT we are doing ok so what is the answer. I know in the line stations like JFK ORD LAX that is not the case but but what would you like me to do, i know the line stations need more but im not in control of the negotations

And yes I singed an AMP card like it really matters

 

[odie01]

Odie if you were making a decent wage plus a bit of OT what would you do ? Im sure you will thrash me for saying this but that is what we are dealing with, in tulsa with a bit a OT we are doing ok so what is the answer. I know in the line stations like JFK ORD LAX that is not the case but but what would you like me to do, i know the line stations need more but im not in control of the negotations

With a bit of overtime you are OK! Listen to yourself, a little bit of OT on this contract, a little bit more on the next, WTF, next thing you know your 65 years old and can't retire because the twu has gutted your wages and benefits. You guys need to grow some nads!!!!! Bob, chime in and tell these guys that you can fight intead of laying down in the fetal position and crying for mommy.

 

[TWU informer]

What part of overhaul faces global competition do you not understand?

Sure the line pay for other airlines is higher.

What this negotiations comes down to is this,

Are you on the line regardless of your seniority willing to risk everything to protect overhaul?
Even the guys in overhaul are questionable at best, but what about you guys on the line?
Are you ready to risk it all to have higher overhaul payrates?

Give me one example of an AMT Strike being successful.
And then give me your plan to emulate that action with the division within the TWU.

Pipe Dream at best!

 

[Bob Owens]

What part of overhaul faces global competition do you not understand?

Sure the line pay for other airlines is higher.

What this negotiations comes down to is this,

Are you on the line regardless of your seniority willing to risk everything to protect overhaul?
Even the guys in overhaul are questionable at best, but what about you guys on the line?
Are you ready to risk it all to have higher overhaul payrates?

Give me one example of an AMT Strike being successful.
And then give me your plan to emulate that action with the division within the TWU.

Pipe Dream at best!

As I've said before most of the growth in Aviation will be overseas, and most of the competition for OH work is within the US. Most of the work on US planes is still done in the US. So its not like there are hoards of technicians overseas sitting around waiting for our work, they have their own growing fleets to maintain. As fuel gets more expensive overseas OH gets less attractive, ideally you want to be able to fly the plane in on a revenue trip and if possible fly it out the same way. In other words DWH is ideal, what makes Tulsa so attractive is the fact that its pretty much free. From what I hear they get the facilities for a song, most of the high dollar equipment was bought by the City and has plates stating that its owned by the city attached to them and the low cost of living allows the company to attract talent at a lower wage than their competotors in places like Atlanta or San Francisco.

By the way UALs maintenance costs went up when they outsourced and their rejected TA had language to bring more work back in house. AA has never even proposed outright eliminating in house OH, they havent even claimed its not cost effective.


The fact is when it comes to the contract OH can determine the fate of the line, not the other way around. In the past OH has not been compassionate to the line or workers in high cost areas. This has led to tensions and fustrations over the years. One former President from Tulsa even proposed eliminating .55 line pay to get the bases another Holiday. We would have lost around $1100/yr so the base guys could have another day off. The concessions of 2003 hit the line much harder than the bases, this only increased tensions. The Holidays alone took thousands of dollars out of our pockets, money that we earned by working the Holidays to try and make ends meet living in high cost areas on a Midwest based wage, as far as the Holiday concession you guys simply had to work five more days than you used to.

We are working past that history but certain things must be addressed, such as the cost of living. We will fight for OH, but we have to get a livable wage for where we live so the old mentality in Tulsa of "move here if you dont like it" has to change. There must be a meaningful variance in pay that takes into consideration locations, shifts and days off. No matter what happens AA will have operations in places like MIA, LAX, and NYC because those are the sources of revenue that sustain the company so there will always be workers in those locations. We are willing to support whatever positions OH takes, such as 7 day coverage, labor loans etc, even though on the line its understood that we work 7 days a week, holidays and go wherever the work is as long as our long neglected needs are addressed. So if the question is would the guys on the line be willing to agree to less than the table position on compensation to retain the 1/7th rule and eliminate labor loans on the bases I'd say No, but as long as the package also includes substantial pay raises and a restoration of what was taken away in 2003 and recognizes the aformentioned considerations, in other words our current table position, I'd say they would be willing to do whatever it takes up to and including a Strike. The fact is as far as accepting or rejecting the contract, the bases control that, there's no way the line can insert things that could hurt the bases because the base can simply reject the deal, where the line has power is "self help" and the bases determine whether or not we go there as well but the likelyhood of line participation in self help to support the base issues without also addressing the line issues is pretty much nill.

The current table position has wide pay variances, the guys who work the worst hours in the highest cost areas would get the most and those who work the most desirable hours with weekends off in low cost areas would get the least. Guys in Tulsa working days would top out at around $39 while guys on mids in places like NY would top out at around $44. If the company wanted to save on labor costs they could move the work to cheaper locations or desirable shifts.This proposal would protect the interests of the bases and provide much needed financial relief to everyone and its something I believe the line would do whatever is needed to get.

The last time AA mechanics struck they were successful. That was 1969 when the compensation in real terms was double what it is today.

 

[aapitbull]

What part of overhaul faces global competition do you not understand?

Sure the line pay for other airlines is higher.

What this negotiations comes down to is this,

Are you on the line regardless of your seniority willing to risk everything to protect overhaul?
Even the guys in overhaul are questionable at best, but what about you guys on the line?
Are you ready to risk it all to have higher overhaul payrates?

Give me one example of an AMT Strike being successful.
And then give me your plan to emulate that action with the division within the TWU.

Pipe Dream at best!

Well the way I see it is the guys on the line are the only ones fighting the company right now the B check in dfw is averaging 700 to 800 write ups and 2 to 3 days to finish. I was told by a friend in tech that there are more planes ots daily than he has ever seen what is the great majority in Tulsa doing? You do not like the current drive to replace the TWU even though several of the ideas in place came from you e.g. including stock clerks, I think it should be you giving us the plan to save overhaul not the other way around after all it was Tulsa who voted in a fleet service clerk to be president and put company lackie J. HEWITT at the table.


Just thinking outloud, its probably my ego out of control again!

 

[Mr Red]

One more time people ! WE ARE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW ! and we pay dues,The majority of Mechs here are probably VETS and we don't get holiday pay for MEMORIAL DAY !This company is like the twilight zone .

 

[Duke787]

A quick note about Bob's reply................

There doesn't have to be hoards of technicians overseas doing OH, there just has to be one guy signing for it. AA could fly a 777 to China on a trip and they could do check there or Thailand and do a trip back to the USA...........737's can do a trip to Central America. Then go through a OH check and then do a return trip.

They couldn't equal AA's OH mechs experiance, qaulity or even the convienence, but it is possible.

snip:

"So if the question is would the guys on the line be willing to agree to less than the table position on compensation to retain the 1/7th rule and eliminate labor loans on the bases I'd say No"

I can say that bases keeping weekends off and not being labor loaned, is not a strike issue for most line mechs who work weekends and are labor loaned all the time, and if a strike is called (which I doubt/hope doesn't happen) we are going to need to know from the union, what the defining reason we are striking for is.

 

[odie01]

A quick note about Bob's reply................

There doesn't have to be hoards of technicians overseas doing OH, there just has to be one guy signing for it. AA could fly a 777 to China on a trip and they could do check there or Thailand and do a trip back to the USA...........737's can do a trip to Central America. Then go through a OH check and then do a return trip.

They couldn't equal AA's OH mechs experiance, qaulity or even the convienence, but it is possible.

snip:

"So if the question is would the guys on the line be willing to agree to less than the table position on compensation to retain the 1/7th rule and eliminate labor loans on the bases I'd say No"

I can say that bases keeping weekends off and not being labor loaned, is not a strike issue for most line mechs who work weekends and are labor loaned all the time, and if a strike is called (which I doubt/hope doesn't happen) we are going to need to know from the union, what the defining reason we are striking for is.

As an ex-line guy now working in OH, I can tell you that are weekends off are nice, but the real issue is restoring our benefits and pay. I don't speak for all of OH, but the guys I work with at AFW realize that we need to go 24/7, 7 days a week, but only if they restore what we had. We are not willing to give them 7 day coverage for nothing !!!!!

 

[Interested]

As an ex-line guy now working in OH, I can tell you that are weekends off are nice, but the real issue is restoring our benefits and pay. I don't speak for all of OH, but the guys I work with at AFW realize that we need to go 24/7, 7 days a week, but only if they restore what we had. We are not willing to give them 7 day coverage for nothing !!!!!

I agree, if O/H goes 7 day coverage work it like the line does. Make it the entire O/H, NOT just ONE dock on the whole base.

 

[Duke787]

As an ex-line guy now working in OH, I can tell you that are weekends off are nice, but the real issue is restoring our benefits and pay. I don't speak for all of OH, but the guys I work with at AFW realize that we need to go 24/7, 7 days a week, but only if they restore what we had. We are not willing to give them 7 day coverage for nothing !!!!!

Hopefully our negotiators will be able to get weekend pay for the line stations also........

 

[odie01]

I agree, if O/H goes 7 day coverage work it like the line does. Make it the entire O/H, NOT just ONE dock on the whole base.

That's right, I don't think anyone is arguing that OH needs to go 7 days, but not for free. I'm pretty sure our curent negotiating committee understands this, let's hope the international stays out of our business, but from what I'm hearing Gless and other ATD reps are negotiating behing our back.

 

[Interested]

That's right, I don't think anyone is arguing that OH needs to go 7 days, but not for free. I'm pretty sure our curent negotiating committee understands this, let's hope the international stays out of our business, but from what I'm hearing Gless and other ATD reps are negotiating behing our back.

Don't they always?? And when I said entire O/H, that includes back shops, schedulers, supervisors etc...

 

[High Speed Steel]

As an ex-line guy now working in OH, I can tell you that are weekends off are nice, but the real issue is restoring our benefits and pay. I don't speak for all of OH, but the guys I work with at AFW realize that we need to go 24/7, 7 days a week, but only if they restore what we had. We are not willing to give them 7 day coverage for nothing !!!!!

So your willing to accept additional concessions, restoring (in part) what you had in exchange for 24/7 coverage.....

So much for article 3(i).

 

[MCI transplant]

So your willing to accept additional concessions, restoring (in part) what you had in exchange for 24/7 coverage.....

So much for article 3(i).

<_< -------- Highspeed, this wouldn't be a "concession", if, your "properly" compensated for it!