TWU negotiations.........what?

[Bob Owens]

It's almost like YOU all were anticipating some miracle negotiating period from our clowns. Breaking News........the TWU likes the status quo just as much as the company. When are you going to wake up people and realize that the TWU is stealing your money just like the company. Bob Owens said it was disappointing........really? Boy, it's almost if you're surprised, Bob.

WAKE UP People......the TWU is stealing your money just like the company. Unless people are prepared to burn down the union halls.......don't expect much in the near term. Just do your job!!!!!

Good Luck!

I was suprised, I didnt expect a lot but I'd expected some little movement, shift differential or something that should be automatic, to put off release for another month. Apparently the company knew they didnt need to be concerned about that.

I've made my position well known that I feel that without a release, or extreme spontaneous pressure from the floor, the company has no incentive to negotiate. Why would they? Without even an unanswered request to be released sitting in front the NMB, why should they bargain? They are getting a free ride off our backs.

Lets face it, at this time, under these conditions, how would management justify pay raises to the board, the banks, and all the other greedy bastards who've gotten used to pocketing the extra billions in revenue our labor is bringing in along with our concesions? They feel they are entitled to all this now, we dont even deserve crumbs. The union isnt even demanding a release, the mechanics are not in open revolt, so why would they consider appeaseing when there are no apparent signs that appeasement is needed?

Call me paranoid but my concerns when this whole thing with the smaller committee was set up last year was that the International may be in cahoots with the company, where they will punish the members for voting down the TA by dragging things out with the intention of eventually bringing back the same contract a year later. How I saw the whole thing going down is we, primarily people who pushed the NO vote, would be given ownership of the process without the tools to bring it to a conclusion, like we have, then when they felt the time was right they would call the whole committee back in, the company would come off their even more regressive counter proposal, get pretty much everything they really wanted and put something thats no better than the TA we rejected back out to an even more desperate membership and hope that the membership turns on those who pushed the no vote and sat across from the company for the last year and achieved nothing. The fact that nearly everyone on the subcommittee voted against forming the subcommittee then were all voted on to the committee says a lot. Dont get me wrong, I like working with the smaller committee better, but without the tools there's no way we can get anything done.

When the pilots rejected their TA in 1997 they were released immediately but nearly a year after we turned down our TA we are still being told to keep talking. I dont know of any other airline mediation where this has happened.

Many years ago Jim Little told our membership that "You never want to turn down a TA because they will never sweeten the pot", he clarified that with 'without a strike". So if thats what the belief is then what are we doing wasting time without working on a release? If we know they will not sweeten the pot unless they are looking at a strike then is the real strategy "hunger makes a good sauce"? Starve us into accepting the deal we rejected a year earlier? The International certainly isnt doing anything to convince the company to sweeten the pot if they know they wont sweeten the pot unless faced with a strike and they are not working towards even the threat of one.

The committee does not have the authority to call for a release, the NMB would not entertain a request by me or all of the table committee and without a release the committee has zero means to put pressure on the company to bargain, that must be done by either Jim Little or his designee. After a year of talks and Zero progress, (we are further apart now than we ever were) a failure by the International to demand a release only furthers my suspicions as to the purpose of the smaller committee. Why not call for a release? Are there risks associated with a release? Of course, but it presents opportunities as well. You cant expect the benifits of a Union Shop without the expectation that you may periodically have to resort to industrial actions in order to retain those benifits. A release levels the playing field, right now the company can just sit back and reap concessions through inflation. Once released we can engage in collective bargaining instead of collective begging.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Bob, if I read, what I think I'm reading, what your saying is, that you feel you being set up by the International? ------- Nooo!!! They wouldn't do that! ------- Would they? :huh: ------- By the way Bob, you do have one tool available to you.-------- You can force Little's hand by voting with your feet!!! Oh, another thing, can we interest you in a AMP card? B)

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ----- Bob, if I read, what I think I'm reading, what your saying is, that you feel you being set up by the International? ------- Nooo!!! They wouldn't do that! ------- Would they?

When it went down thats pretty much how I felt, but I figured I'd take my best shot at making it work and I looked forward to working with the smaller group. There's a lot of history between the International and I so I'm a bit paranoid but I can't let that stop me from trying to work with them and get things done for the members.

 

[TWU informer]

When it went down thats pretty much how I felt, but I figured I'd take my best shot at making it work and I looked forward to working with the smaller group. There's a lot of history between the International and I so I'm a bit paranoid but I can't let that stop me from trying to work with them and get things done for the members.

It appears to me that the AA/TWU International alliance has made Bob Owens out to be the scape goat.

The TWU International has taken an appaerrnt "hands off" AAproach to these negotiations.

Yet behind the cloak they (AA/TWU) are still one.

The two together have allowed Bob to be "the man" and the voice of these negotiations.
Meanwhile Bob has allowed himself to be placed in this position as he tries to "do the right thing"

The Plaintiffs in the AMFA Organizers vs AA experienced the same tactics and attempts at movements and strategies designed to discredit the leaders of change of direction. Bob Owens will soon learn the same lesson I learned during the AMFA Drive.

Which is a heart wrenching experience in reality in Governmental control via the supreme dollar as a result of the Supreme Court ruling that money is free speech.

All I ask is that when the dust all settles, each and every one of you AMT's direct your fault not towards Bob Owens but towards the real corruption of our political system and it's desire to slam dunk the middle class!

Good Luck Bob, I understand and also know first hand your current demise.

 

[Bob Owens]

It appears to me that the AA/TWU International alliance has made Bob Owens out to be the scape goat.

The TWU International has taken an appaerrnt "hands off" AAproach to these negotiations.

Yet behind the cloak they (AA/TWU) are still one.

The two together have allowed Bob to be "the man" and the voice of these negotiations.
Meanwhile Bob has allowed himself to be placed in this position as he tries to "do the right thing"

The Plaintiffs in the AMFA Organizers vs AA experienced the same tactics and attempts at movements and strategies designed to discredit the leaders of change of direction. Bob Owens will soon learn the same lesson I learned during the AMFA Drive.

Which is a heart wrenching experience in reality in Governmental control via the supreme dollar as a result of the Supreme Court ruling that money is free speech.

All I ask is that when the dust all settles, each and every one of you AMT's direct your fault not towards Bob Owens but towards the real corruption of our political system and it's desire to slam dunk the middle class!

Good Luck Bob, I understand and also know first hand your current demise.

Thanks Dave, I'm not alone and the fat lady hasnt sung yet!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< -------- All joking aside, your a good man Charley Brown! Watch your tailfeathers!-------But I'm afraid your in for a rough landing!!!!

 

[strikeforce]

Call me paranoid but my concerns when this whole thing with the smaller committee was set up last year was that the International may be in cahoots with the company. A release levels the playing field, right now the company can just sit back and reap concessions through inflation.

The company and Intl "ARE" in cahoots, Bob. They are "ONE"! Everyone knows it. The real issue here is.......How do we choke off the union to the point where they feel the pressure from the floor and finally work on OUR behalf? The only real answer to any situation is "Money". For any labor or business entity....money talks and BS walks. Somehow there has to be a 100% systemwide effort where the members go off "check off" and pay by hand dues. This way WE control the revenue stream for the union. What's Jim Little going to do when 26,000 members fail to pay dues for 2, 3, or 6 months or even a year......have AA fire everyone in M&E, Fleet, Stores, Auto, Plant? That's when things will finally start to happen! Trust ME!!!

As far as the company sitting back and reaping concessions through inflation........NO! they are reaping 17.5% for every year that WE do nothing. Our concession meter just keeps on ticking 17.5% per year + COLA + Higher out of pocket expenses + Higher Gas Prices, and anything else we can't control. This is the real deal, Bob! All I can say is.......GOOD LUCK!!!!!

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip

Call me paranoid but my concerns when this whole thing with the smaller committee was set up last year was that the International may be in cahoots with the company, where they will punish the members for voting down the TA by dragging things out with the intention of eventually bringing back the same contract a year later.

... snip

May be in cahoots with the company? May be indeed, Bob - what was your first clue?

This was common knowledge and quite evident before and definitely after the 2003 tag-teaming by both the company and their union of the workers in order to keep wages low and dues high with the concessionary deal made.

May be?

"Cahoots" implies separate but cooperating entities. That's far from the correct word to use in this case - the workers' supposed representation is, even while collecting dues from the workers, in effect working for the company's benefit in a capacity much greater than simple "cooperation".

 

[strikeforce]

This was common knowledge and quite evident before and definitely after the 2003 tag-teaming by both the company and their union of the workers in order to keep wages low and dues high with the concessionary deal made.

"Tag-Teaming" definitely illustrates AA/TWU shallacking of the membership. In-cahoots is too soft of a term. Tag-teaming always reminds me of professional "Wrastlin", where two gorillas beat, pummel and work over the little guys. Fits our scenerio perfect.

 

[DallasConehead]

Woooo is me, it's everybody elses fault but mine, what can I do?? Whats more, there's a conspiracy afoot. Good Luck.
They got you painted into a corner Bob Owens, bunch of sneaky b**tards,,, there isn't going to be any release. Not with 50 gazzilion people unemployed.

 

[Bob Owens]

Woooo is me, it's everybody elses fault but mine, what can I do?? Whats more, there's a conspiracy afoot. Good Luck.
They got you painted into a corner Bob Owens, bunch of sneaky b**tards,,, there isn't going to be any release. Not with 50 gazzilion people unemployed.

Tell that to the Spirit pilots, when they were released unemployment was even worse. What difference does the number of unemployed make as far as a release anyway? Do you have some inside access to a secret NMB list of the criteria to release the parties from mediation? As far as I've seen nobody has really challenged it when they were denied a release and I dont know of anyone who has been denied a release after rejecting a TA.

As far as the conspiracy its not just me, countless numbers of people thought the same thing and asked me about it, probably because of what we've seen in the past. As long as the people who run this show are appointed by people they cant vote out, paid more than double what we are, get treated very well by the company, and get their annual raises no matter what happens to us the members are going to be suspicious. Bobby Gless and some other ATD officials have been running around pushing the Bankruptcy scare since 2003, nearly nine years, in the meantime there's seems to be a weekly announcement of more major purchases by the company. Despite the TWUs perpetual threat of an AMR bankruptcy filing, over that same period of time where AMRs revenues have grown substantially, the members has declined, however if we look at the TWU, their revenues and assetts have declined substantailly yet their compensation has increased and we dont see any austerity measures kicking in there.

TWU
Year Assetts Reciepts
2003 57495138 79257632
2004 54474040 63034767
2005 52515827 65363081
2006 50763854 71963291
2007 49767999 59800981
2008 44807189 72338029
2009 37727487 59776423

Assetts are down 35% and reciepts are down 25%.

At AA their reciepts are up by 25% , our headcount is down by 30% and our hourly wage is still less than it was in 2003. Like the TWU, AA still continues to spend more than they bring in, AA buys new planes, the TWU buys new cars, but unlike the TWU, at AA the money isnt going to their employees.


When Bobby Gless was President he recommended turning down the 2001 agreement and said he was so dissapointed with it that he said the guys should fill out AMFA cards, now he says that we should lower our expectations when the companys package in real terms is 40 to 50% lower than what he once told us to reject. Why the change? Because Bobby would have had to live under that agreement and wasn't earning six figures flying around the country on positive space first class passes back then.

A release only allows us to resort to self help, it doesnt say we have to go on strike, we could continue to maintain the status quo but it changes the stakes at the table, if the company maintained their current "F U this doesnt meet OUR needs" and "we are only going to rearrange the furniture" position we could legally do what we need to do, whether its Chaos, slowdowns, sickouts, strikes, etc, and we could tell the world about it so customers can make other arrangements. Of course the company would fight back with possible lockouts, terminations or imposing new terms but the public wont like whats going on, and with over 80% load factors across the industry there wont be many options so more than likely the alternate arrangement will be stay home. The fact is even if the union just starts pulling its political connections and publicizing its efforts to get released it puts some pressure on the company. The AFL-CIO would have something to prove here.

This is part of being in a union boys, if you dont have the stomach for it go into management or a non-union shop and see if you like those conditions any better.

 

[strikeforce]

.....there isn't going to be any release. Not with 50 gazzilion people unemployed.

It doesn't matter if 50 gazzilion or just 50......the TWU/AA tag-team will not ask to be released. Bob Owens asked to be released.......he's nothing.....peon.....irrelavent.....witness.....nada.....zilch.......nobody. Does Bob Owens know minute-by-minute back door telephone conversations between Chicken Little and Weel? I'm sure there's plenty of that going on, don't you think? Lots of WEELin and Dealin!!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

A release only allows us to resort to self help, it doesnt say we have to go on strike, we could continue to maintain the status quo but it changes the stakes at the table, if the company maintained their current "F U this doesnt meet OUR needs" position we could legally do what we need to do, whether its Chaos, slowdowns, strikes, sickouts etc, and we could tell the world about it so customers can make other arrangements. Of course the company would fight back with possible lockouts, terminations or imposing new terms but the public wont like whats going on, and with over 80% load factors across the industry there wont be many options so more than likely the alternate arrangement will be stay home. The fact is even if the union just starts pulling its political connections and publicizing its efforts to get released it puts some pressure on the company. This is part of being in a union boys, if you dont have the stomach for it go into management or a non-union shop and see if you like those conditions any better.

What I don't have the stomach for is watching you be played by AA/TWU Alliance while "hoping" for a release which obviously is not going to happen, and even if it did, I am not convinced the outcome is going to lead to anything more favorable. I know you have not forgot that in the end James C. Little has the controls of our fate.

What I don't have the stomach for is a playing the part of "union boys" while the union leadership plays business man.

What I dont have the stomach for is watching one group of union boys constantly bashing another group of union boys and openly expessing a desire to gut one group if the bashers can just get what they feel is their due.

In other words Bob, in concept you are playing the part of union boy, while in reality there is not much of a union really left on AA property. You appear to be dug in and dedicated to proving this either true or at least gaining confirmation of union existence. Meanwhile, the TWU amd AA are both lobbying the NBM against release behind the scenes and will continue to do so until you are worn down. Meanwhile, the membership and the employees continue to suffer from concessions while the stalemate rages on.

I hear just as many blaming the union as I hear blaming the company. There is no leadership direction, there is no concensus on who is the enemy, therefore, if an when the battle escalates, without direction we will appear more like a kicked over ant hill than union boys.

Are you just hoping for a show of unity and strength if you gain your desired release? Or do see a different reality than I see?
Do you really have any doubt that James C. Little is whispering in Kanes ear and you are being setup for failure?

Make a modification to the profit sharing plan at the open of the next session. Make the formula for us getting profit sharing exactly the same formula management uses to hand out stock option bonus awards. That way we too we will "share the gain" regardless of profitable performance. Surely they would agree that the same formula they use for measuring performance success would be good for us also and that we should be paid nicely for the same measures.

 

[Vortilon]

Yet another slap in the face to the mechanics and related. Thanks TWU - Don "Agape" V., Jimmy "Hobbit" L. for bringing this all about. Keep it up, you are untouchable.....right. I really appreciate the well laid out plans of the TWU to the membership. The open negotiations are a real plus as well.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here; however, who wants to continue this charade of believing the TWU cares about the pay and benefits of the membership. There is a cure, (no, it's not more cowbell) and it would go a long way in taking the edge off this process. It's simple, vote in the AMP. Send Jim Little and his ($300,000.00 per year cost) - packing, and take Don ($200,000.00 per year) Videtich with him. That is dues paying members, paying for these un-elected posers, to allegedly represent us.


In the mean time, at least - work safe and, always follow the right manual when accomplishing any task.

 

[DallasConehead]

I agree there needs to be a release, the charade has continued for far too long. Bob, you were able to engineer the defeat of the TA. So they said OK, you do it now. Now your up against the wall, you can't get a release, you can't get a contract. The international doesn't want a release, neither does the company. They hold all the cards and they won't let it happen because of the risk to the bottom line, not only the INT but AAs as well. On top of all that, I don't think Obama would risk a major transportation shutdown during the fragile recovery.

The only thing that could possibly change things is pressure from the workers. I have my doubts though because we have seen the company doesn't care about OTS or delays. They just cancel the trips, a trip canceled represents one more plane they don’t have to put up in the air on a losing route burning gas. As I have said before the paradigm has changed.

Does this mean give up? Absolutely not. I adhere to the manuals and write up what I find broken because that is the framework and structure we are to use. If it means they need to crap a tool or part from the other side of the country then so be it. My rating isn’t theirs, its mine, I use it on their planes so that plane can move people from point A to point B, safely.

I think a lot of people are adhering to the manuals, but, there are always those guys that are going to roll the dice, these people are the ones that need to get their house in order, not for the sake of putting pressure but because they risk people, equipment and their ratings.