TWU negotiations.........what?

[PhatSappy]

The measurement of success or failure should be a measurement of results, not on the ability to debate or argue. Lawyers are for the most part good debators and can argue even when they know they are wrong.

I still maintain that there is not a single example of an AMT strike that forced positive results in the industry. Instead there are many examples of complete failures and losses caused by AMT Stikes. In my opinion, placing all the eggs in the basket of a 30 day release is not sound strategy. In fact, it could backfire beyond belief given the method of the strike vote that is currently being used as so-called leverage by the negotiators.

I have been called a coward, told to get in a Spider Hole, and numerous other names. Not one of these name callers can give an example of the current negotiating strategy working out for the positive in the profession. Yet, emotionally they run for the cliff with celebration. I suspect the celebration comes from a chance to pay back the bonus award winners of management. But in the end, are you going to get a better or worse agreement when you get to the edge of the clliff and either jump off or admit you were bluffing?

So far the current table position that could be imposed at the end of the 30 days has gone backwards since the rejection of the T/A over a year ago. Bob said I wouldn't go backwards from the rejected T/A, we will see.

I still would like to read or view any example in the industry that the AMT's were successful using the only strategy left in the game. That same strategy that everyone keeps thumping their chest about how it is going to turn the tables in our favor. I witnessed the NWA/AMFA PEB and that could be called a success, at least short term anyway because we know what happened at the next round of negotiations and in between. I have doubts that given the defined pension issue that we will succeed even if we get to that point.

Remember, measurement of success should be measured by end results, not how much emotion one releases while dishing out a little punishment. This could be equal to a boxer knocking an opponent down 2 times in one round of a 15 round fight and losing the decision in the end.

"
I still maintain that there is not a single example of an AMT strike that forced positive results in the industry. Instead there are many examples of complete failures and losses caused by AMT Stikes. ...

This has been shared by many of our predecessors, "A" Scalers as we called them. Not many left, but I bet those who saw the last strikes will agree they lost more than they gained. To maintain our quality of life, we have to keep them in the barn during the peak flying periods. Do your job by consulting the maintenance manual for even the simplest of tasks. Print a section and take it to the job site. Have the tools listed? Do the task. All the listed tools not there? Inform your crew chief and wait for them. You know the drill. Send AA the bill.

 

[Bob Owens]

"
I still maintain that there is not a single example of an AMT strike that forced positive results in the industry. Instead there are many examples of complete failures and losses caused by AMT Stikes. ...

This has been shared by many of our predecessors, "A" Scalers as we called them. Not many left, but I bet those who saw the last strikes will agree they lost more than they gained.

Hmm, lets see, the last time we struck was 1969. So if we compare contracts from lets say 1969 to 1979 were the mechanics better off or worse off compared to where they were prior to the strike?

My guess is better off.

Now lets take a look a this last post contract period. We have not struck, are we better off today than we were ten years ago or worse off?

I know for a fact we are much worse off.

The "A" scalers were wrong about the effects of a strike just as they were wrong to accept B-scale.

The fact is nearly all of our gains were either directly or indirectly gains made by either strikes or the threat of one. In some cases they were made from the actions of other workers in the industry. All the things we take for granted such as a 40 hour workweek, paid holdays, vacations pensions and health benifits, were won with the weapon of interuptions to commerce, even in the best of times under the CAB workers had to fight for those things. In fact there were far more strikes under the CAB than under deregulation and I think we all can agree that workers were better off then.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

See attached document and read page (3) paragraph (3) and any comments would be appreciated.

 

[Tex-Mech]

See attached document and read page (3) paragraph (3) and any comments would be appreciated.

Comment from me is that did you guys actually send this with the date typo of May, 18 2091 still in it on the bottom of page 2? Rather embarassing.

 

[paul1]

See attached document and read page (3) paragraph (3) and any comments would be appreciated.

once again the TWU DIDN"T ASK US! I think the one day off every 7 days is the correct way to go. If you are really worried about being fit for duty!

 

[Tex-Mech]

once again the TWU DIDN"T ASK US! I think the one day off every 7 days is the correct way to go. If you are really worried about being fit for duty!

I wish they were more concerned about getting a contract that provided me an opportunity to work only 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, and have a decent standard of living. I'd rather they lobby for a 40 hour work week like unions were suppose to do, and provide me the pay I deserve. What this tells me is that the union has endorsed overtime as part of our total compensation, instead of an added bonus for extra hours worked.

 

[Bob Owens]

I wish they were more concerned about getting a contract that provided me an opportunity to work only 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, and have a decent standard of living. I'd rather they lobby for a 40 hour work week like unions were suppose to do, and provide me the pay I deserve. What this tells me is that the union has endorsed overtime as part of our total compensation, instead of an added bonus for extra hours worked.

I agree.

Thats why I objected to a union figure for a cost out on OT changes, because the whole point of OT and DT is to discourage the company from making us work more than 40. Therefore no value added to OT changes. We've beeny giving concessionary contracts where we are forced to work more than 40 in order to provide a reasonable standard of living for our families. We need to change that.

On the companys cost out they are pretty much assuming that we all should expect to work 40 hours OT per month because thats what they figured the impact of the structural raises would be on OT.

 

[Frank Szabo]

I wish they were more concerned about getting a contract that provided me an opportunity to work only 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, and have a decent standard of living. I'd rather they lobby for a 40 hour work week like unions were suppose to do, and provide me the pay I deserve. What this tells me is that the union has endorsed overtime as part of our total compensation, instead of an added bonus for extra hours worked.

You might have a chance for that if the "union" collecting our dues were working for us, the membership. The TWU, instead, functions as a defacto subsidiary of the AMR Corporation.

That's not to say I know of a better alternative. Unions are all fighting for their own survival and to one degree or another screwing their membership to maintain their offices' status quo.

 

[DallasConehead]

once again the TWU DIDN"T ASK US! I think the one day off every 7 days is the correct way to go. If you are really worried about being fit for duty!

No reason to negotiate double time for 7th day work back into the agreement then. If your on a field trip and your duty time limit is approaching, be ready to get on a plane, guys most likely won't be asked if theres a chance of a duty time problem.

Once again, (and I'm no koolaid drinker) but you choose a reason to be critical of the organization and you are not on steady ground. Yea, we want good pay for 40 hours, but, do you want the government dicatating that you can't get into 7th day pay? Sounds a bit socialist to me.

I think the letter is correct and that the current methed for 4 (24) hour rest periods a month is the correct method.

Does anyone even know what the driver was for P&W to try to change it??????

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

See attached document and read page (3) paragraph (3) and any comments would be appreciated.

Reduced compensation? Gee, it's nice to know the twu is thinking of us so we can work that second job to make up for what the twu gives away.

GO AMP!

 

[TWU informer]

If you have an opinion, and do not agree with the TWU's version, then why waste your time posting here about it?

Simply write your own opinion and submit it to the F.A.A.

Want a larger impact? Organize a letter writing campaign from the "profession" as individuals.
Stop allowing dweebs to speak on your behalf and submit your own comments to the F.A.A.

Would be a good idea to proof read your comments and not make a reference to the year 2091 though.

I believe the F.A.A. would enjoy hearing directly from the AMT's rather than their self appointed so-called leadership.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Reduced compensation? Gee, it's nice to know the twu is thinking of us so we can work that second job to make up for what the twu gives away.

GO AMP!

Ken,

Do you know if the AMT Society has a position on this?

 

[Bob Owens]

In theory Duty Time limits could be advantageous, but the Colgan Air disaster proves that Duty times dont make air travel safer or wages better. Sure they could only fly so many hours but they could wait tables or pump gass all the hours in between and still be exhausted.

Confining the hours of mechanics isn't really enforcable since the FAA has no means of tracking hours. Many mechanics work multiple jobs in the industry and its not because they cant get enough of working on airplanes, its because they cant get enough money working on airplanes.

If you want well rested workers you have to have well paid workers. The FAA is a joke when it comes to safety.

That said I think the Union probably should have held back on forming an opinion, I think they are speaking more in behalf of the company than the members. I do not recall this coming up before the maintenance Presidents for discussion, after all aren't unions supposed to push for things like weekends and the eight hour day? Just think of it this way, the company could not force you to work a seventh day even if there was a job action going on. Instead of putting a ban on the 7th day work the FAA should attach a deterrant, double time for sixth day work and triple time for seventh day work. These rates are pretty much standard in the trades, if you work your weekend you make a weeks pay. I could never understand why the so called Christian right wont campaign against business as usual on Sunday. I'd welcome a return of the Blue Laws. I guess at heart they are all Capitalists first, Christians second.

 

[DallasConehead]

Instead of putting a ban on the 7th day work the FAA should attach a deterrant, double time for sixth day work and triple time for seventh day work.

Sounds great Bob, how about we get them to limit contracting out our work to overseas chop shops while we're at it. Oh, thats right, I forgot, we haven't been able to get that done for the last 15 years.

How about we quit with the pipe dreams attach ourselves to a more reality based format?

Which are:

We work for a mismanaged company that says they can't make a dime under the current structure.
The FAA and the administration and the NMB aren't going to come riding in on a horse and save our arses.
The union is impotent to change anything.
The cost of living keeps going up.
I have gone with out a raise since 03.

So quit trying to limit me to a 40 hour week. If I want to work 110 hours in 2 weeks, that should be my choice.

 

[787nightmare]

In theory Duty Time limits could be advantageous, but the Colgan Air disaster proves that Duty times dont make air travel safer or wages better. Sure they could only fly so many hours but they could wait tables or pump gass all the hours in between and still be exhausted.

Confining the hours of mechanics isn't really enforcable since the FAA has no means of tracking hours. Many mechanics work multiple jobs in the industry and its not because they cant get enough of working on airplanes, its because they cant get enough money working on airplanes.

If you want well rested workers you have to have well paid workers. The FAA is a joke when it comes to safety.

That said I think the Union probably should have held back on forming an opinion, I think they are speaking more in behalf of the company than the members. I do not recall this coming up before the maintenance Presidents for discussion, after all aren't unions supposed to push for things like weekends and the eight hour day? Just think of it this way, the company could not force you to work a seventh day even if there was a job action going on. Instead of putting a ban on the 7th day work the FAA should attach a deterrant, double time for sixth day work and triple time for seventh day work. These rates are pretty much standard in the trades, if you work your weekend you make a weeks pay. I could never understand why the so called Christian right wont campaign against business as usual on Sunday. I'd welcome a return of the Blue Laws. I guess at heart they are all Capitalists first, Christians second.

Come on Bob...being a conservative Christain has absolutely nothing to do with business operations. Christains should be more concerned about living a Christ-like life and ministering to those that the individual feels led to speak with. I am as pro-union as any, and have proven my mettle by not crossing a line at my weakest/most vulnerable moment in life...but(to me)it's nothing more than a necessary evil in this industry. I loath about every union known to aircraft mechanics, but I also know where we'd be without them. I don't wish to get into a big pulpit preaching exchange. But I fail to see where Christainity could be remotely connected to business operation policys(and frankly thought the blue laws back in the day, were rather silly & hypocritical). We Christains are all about ministry, freedom, constitution and "we the people". Corporate America & politicians have trampled the consitution. I like you partner, but I had to jump in on that one. I'll leave it there...