TWU negotiations.........what?

Bob Owens said:
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because if we get released we dont have to strike, we can engage in CHAOS, and one of the things about CHAOS is that when mechanics do it we clean up on OT.
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I've been saying that for a long time. Staying inside is much more effective than staying outside. If little jimmy calls for a walkout tell him to go to hell. Considering the union/company relationship, I would not trust the TWU's motivation for leading the sheep off the property, nor should anyone else with two brain cells to rub together.

I would also question the motivations of those who profess their "undying" hatred and dislike for our company (owned) union, yet are willing to follow all commands issued by its emperor - something therein smells of rotten fish and it's probably those two brain cells I referenced earlier, rotting inside one's head, after years of non-use and video games.

The union isn't too bad on a local (514) level as those involved do a helluva job (DeAnn in particular), even though the locals (again, Local 514 is an excellent example) do a lot of what should be company functions. Blind faith in poor leadership, however, is neither patriotic nor is it what Unionism is all about.

One of the beautiful things about an airplane is once you find one problem it puts you into areas where you can easily find more. Things that could go to a C check if not discovered earlier have to be addressed one way or another if discovered.
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No inspector or mechanic is worth their salt unless they can find an honest fault with a "perfectly operating" machine.

"Perfectly operating" is in quotes because, quite simply, there isn't any such thing as a perfect machine nor is there likely to be anytime soon, and DAMNED CERTAINLY not an airplane. In that regard, Mother Nature is a ####.
 
paul1 said:
Its my understanding that are productivity is at a all time high esp. in tulsa
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Your kidding, right? I don't know where you work but I see o/h schedules are being revised on a daily basis from lack of productivity due to the lack of motivation over the stalled contract, i.e., low morale, and seven day coverage, e.g., 1D, even with massive amounts of o.t. being worked. Chaos is already alive and well.
 
Birdman said:
Your kidding, right? I don't know where you work but I see o/h schedules are being revised on a daily basis from lack of productivity due to the lack of motivation over the stalled contract, i.e., low morale, and seven day coverage, e.g., 1D, even with massive amounts of o.t. being worked. Chaos is already alive and well.
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Depends on how you measure productivity, if we look at the amount of revenue generated per employee its way up. That doesnt mean we are working harder, it means the company is getting a lot more money for what we produce.

I know its not a perfect measure but neither is comparing our productivity to carriers that outsource. UAL claimed that Outsourced Maintenance Services made up 13% of their total costs, they used to do all their maint in house like AA. The shift from in house to outsourced automatically makes their labor costs appear more lower even though all that really happened was the cost was shifted.
 
Bob Owens said:
UAL claimed that Outsourced Maintenance Services made up 13% of their total costs, they used to do all their maint in house like AA.
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No, Bob, nobody at UAL ever claimed that outsourced maintenance services made up 13% of their total costs. It's obvious from looking at their financial statements that outsourced maintenance does not now (nor has it ever) made up anywhere near 13% of their total costs. You are either misinterpreting something that someone said or you're not remembering correctly.

But once you become fixated on a number, lord knows you'll repeat it dozens of times despite its obvious inaccuracy. No wonder you and the other negotiators are ineffective at negotiating higher wages. You spout numbers with no basis in reality - not a desirable quality in a union negotiator.
 
FWAAA said:
No, Bob, nobody at UAL ever claimed that outsourced maintenance services made up 13% of their total costs. It's obvious from looking at their financial statements that outsourced maintenance does not now (nor has it ever) made up anywhere near 13% of their total costs. You are either misinterpreting something that someone said or you're not remembering correctly.

But once you become fixated on a number, lord knows you'll repeat it dozens of times despite its obvious inaccuracy. No wonder you and the other negotiators are ineffective at negotiating higher wages. You spout numbers with no basis in reality - not a desirable quality in a union negotiator.
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I consider Bob the "Rush Lindbaugh" of maint..............He really hasn't gotten any further with contract negotiations then our union brothers he bad mouths on this forum.

He can talk a good game, just like Rush.
 
The measurement of success or failure should be a measurement of results, not on the ability to debate or argue. Lawyers are for the most part good debators and can argue even when they know they are wrong.

I still maintain that there is not a single example of an AMT strike that forced positive results in the industry. Instead there are many examples of complete failures and losses caused by AMT Stikes. In my opinion, placing all the eggs in the basket of a 30 day release is not sound strategy. In fact, it could backfire beyond belief given the method of the strike vote that is currently being used as so-called leverage by the negotiators.

I have been called a coward, told to get in a Spider Hole, and numerous other names. Not one of these name callers can give an example of the current negotiating strategy working out for the positive in the profession. Yet, emotionally they run for the cliff with celebration. I suspect the celebration comes from a chance to pay back the bonus award winners of management. But in the end, are you going to get a better or worse agreement when you get to the edge of the clliff and either jump off or admit you were bluffing?

So far the current table position that could be imposed at the end of the 30 days has gone backwards since the rejection of the T/A over a year ago. Bob said I wouldn't go backwards from the rejected T/A, we will see.

I still would like to read or view any example in the industry that the AMT's were successful using the only strategy left in the game. That same strategy that everyone keeps thumping their chest about how it is going to turn the tables in our favor. I witnessed the NWA/AMFA PEB and that could be called a success, at least short term anyway because we know what happened at the next round of negotiations and in between. I have doubts that given the defined pension issue that we will succeed even if we get to that point.

Remember, measurement of success should be measured by end results, not how much emotion one releases while dishing out a little punishment. This could be equal to a boxer knocking an opponent down 2 times in one round of a 15 round fight and losing the decision in the end.
 
I agree with informer. I think a strike is going to be a big bust ,but who knows hopefully we never get to that point. It seems like the nmb is leaning more towards the companys side, even knowing they are a neutral party there to help. We rejected the last T/A and the company brings back even less. How does the nmb see this as progress?

I think the union, should aleast at the next meeting, take the companys offer for holidays article 7 and move that to the closed items, M&R Tentative Agreements Reached. Since the union feels they made progress on that item. Continue to close these open item ASAP.

Or since the twu feels the company is not bargaining in good faith with us, start taking a good look at binding arbitration.
 
paul1 said:
I agree with informer. I think a strike is going to be a big bust ,but who knows hopefully we never get to that point. It seems like the nmb is leaning more towards the companys side, even knowing they are a neutral party there to help. We rejected the last T/A and the company brings back even less. How does the nmb see this as progress?

I think the union, should aleast at the next meeting, take the companys offer for holidays article 7 and move that to the closed items, M&R Tentative Agreements Reached. Since the union feels they made progress on that item. Continue to close these open item ASAP.

Or since the twu feels the company is not bargaining in good faith with us, start taking a good look at binding arbitration.
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Holidays! this company that doesnt even have MEMORIAL DAY holiday pay.They should give up the name AMERICAN its about as UN- AMERICAN as it can be!!!!
 
paul1 said:
I agree with informer. I think a strike is going to be a big bust ,but who knows hopefully we never get to that point. It seems like the nmb is leaning more towards the companys side, even knowing they are a neutral party there to help. We rejected the last T/A and the company brings back even less. How does the nmb see this as progress?

I think the union, should aleast at the next meeting, take the companys offer for holidays article 7 and move that to the closed items, M&R Tentative Agreements Reached. Since the union feels they made progress on that item. Continue to close these open item ASAP.

Or since the twu feels the company is not bargaining in good faith with us, start taking a good look at binding arbitration.
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Whatever options there are, Arbitration, release to self help, PEB, that wont happen until the 30day cooling off period starts. Otherwise its more of what we've seen since November of 2007.

FYI, after reviewing the cost out of the latest company offer it comes out to around $21 million a year from the amendable date, we gave up around $340 million a year in 2003, pretty much doubled it with job losses and productivity gains beyond the agreement and they come back with this.. Their cost out covers from DOS plus 5 years, they appear to already be assuming that they will drag the next round of talks out a year with no increases.

They are offering as of the amendable date 0%, 0%, 0%, 0%, 3%, 1.5%, 1.5%, 2%. According to their own numbers they pulled over $110 million off the table from the prior proposal by adding another year of zero increases but claim its not regressive.
 
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