TWU negotiations.........what?

[AMFAMAN]

at the time no other companies had filed bankruptcy recently nor were there any failed strikes that occurreed at that time and the company had 3 billion in the bank but all 3 labor groups bought into the Massive Concession as soon as the company brought out the big guns.

At the time of the concessions, Air Trans had kicked of the concessions shortly after 9-11, USAirways was into their first filing of BK, United filed in December 02, not to mention a few smaller carriers who filed BK. At that point, no one accepted the industry changing concessions that the twu did. Our concessions set the bar for every airline, the only difference is that the rest of the airlines were forced to go into BK to get what they wanted.

 

[Raptor]

At the time of the concessions, Air Trans had kicked of the concessions shortly after 9-11, USAirways was into their first filing of BK, United filed in December 02, not to mention a few smaller carriers who filed BK. At that point, no one accepted the industry changing concessions that the twu did. Our concessions set the bar for every airline, the only difference is that the rest of the airlines were forced to go into BK to get what they wanted.

from what I remember we voted on the concession before anyone had filed bankruptcy, everyone followed shortly after we accepted our concession.

 

[AMFAMAN]

from what I remember we voted on the concession before anyone had filed bankruptcy, everyone followed shortly after we accepted our concession.

Wrong...before any BK imposed contract, but UAL went in Dec 02, and USAIRWAYS in Aug 02. The IAM at UAL negotiated a concessionary deal in November 2002, but it was voted down and UAL filed BK anyway before the vote was published.

UAL
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/200...-timeline_x.htm

USAirways
http://money.cnn.com/2002/08/11/news/companies/usair/

 

[FWAAA]

from what I remember we voted on the concession before anyone had filed bankruptcy, everyone followed shortly after we accepted our concession.

Your memory is failing - no worry, it happens as we age. By early 2003, when you voted on the concessions, USAir and UAL had already filed Ch 11 (both in 2002, IIRC) and both had obtained at least temporary paycuts from their unions.

I can't help but wonder why the bad A$$ pilots and the Flight Attendants bought the concession along with Maintenance, remember at the time no other companies had filed bankruptcy recently nor were there any failed strikes that occurreed at that time and the company had 3 billion in the bank but all 3 labor groups bought into the Massive Concession as soon as the company brought out the big guns.

AMR had about $1.2 billion in the bank on 3/31/03, and had less than that when the concessions were imposed. Not $3 billion.

 

[Raptor]

Your memory is failing - no worry, it happens as we age. By early 2003, when you voted on the concessions, USAir and UAL had already filed Ch 11 (both in 2002, IIRC) and both had obtained at least temporary paycuts from their unions.
AMR had about $1.2 billion in the bank on 3/31/03, and had less than that when the concessions were imposed. Not $3 billion.

Ok you guys are probably right, my memory is failing besides I was under considerable stress at the time, I could barely think straight :unsure:

My point was that we still did not have to do it, we could have fought but we All as a group chose to take the cuts, that is what a Union is right, go with the Majority and live with the consequences good or BAD.

I personally don't like the Majority thing but a real Union Man should. :unsure:
Howd that work out for you last time.

 

[tail_twister]

<_< ----Bear it's real easy to call people "Cowards" when your retired, sitting back in your easy chair,with your computor, and looking at it in hindsight! I can't speak for those in TUL, but maybe I can give you a little insight on what went on here at MCI.---- If you remember at that time the "Overhaul Base" was on AA's hit list, and everyone know it! I have no doubt in my mind that, at that time, AA had every intention of shutting us down. Now remember, under Kasher's ruling, if that happened, most would have nowhere to go but the street. Remeber,these are people in their fifties, and early sixties! And jobs ,that paid enough to support ones family, were, and still are, almost nonexistent! So under those circumstances, maybe voting "yes' took more courage than you realize!

MCI.....no doubt !! Kudos to you for the post !!

 

[TWU-NYC]

Working together" no more at Alliance Airport

Mechanics at American's maintenance base at Alliance Airport in Fort Worth have pulled out entirely from any cooperative efforts with management that aren't specifically in their contract. That means no more "continuous improvement," no more joint leadership meetings, no more brainstorming sessions, nada.

The Alliance workers, who are represented by the Transport Workers Union, have been more resistant recently to management compared to their counterparts in Kansas City and Tulsa. In a letter this week to American, Matthew Lorenzi, the vice president of the union's Alliance chapter, blamed "unpredictable behavior of the (Alliance) management team" for the decision.

Not only has the union halted any cooperation, it says that any employee who engages in non-contract activities will be penalized and can even lose their seniority.

Here's the letter that Lorenzi sent to Linda Keetch, American's manager of human resources for maintenance and engineering:

October 11, 2007
Linda Keetch
Manager, HR M & E
Linda,

Pursuant to the request of President Larry Pike and our deliberations as an Executive Board on, October 3, 2007, in regard to the recent unpredictable behavior of the AFW "management teamâ€￾ more specifically, the AFW General Manager Blair Gregg, this letter will serve as formal notification to such Management and. staff that we will be withdrawing from all agreements regarding non-bargaining unit positions. Initially those employees in the positions involved with Continuous Improvement (CI) and “Joint Communicationsâ€￾ (JCT) are to be given, seven day notification from their next scheduled shift that they will be returning to their home shops and shifts, any employees performing such functions after such time are to be coded as MPR and charged all hours accordingly, up to and including the point that they surrender their seniority in accordance with the provisions of article 10 (h) of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). Furthermore, be advised that Local 567 has no record of the current MPR report as required under the provisions of subparagraph. (4) of the aforementioned citation. Therefore, this letter will further serve to confirm that you are in violation of such terms of the (CBA) and we hereby request such report, in advance of our filing of a 29 (d) (l) grievance to resolve the matter.

Thank you in advance for your time and attention in this matter, as your expedient actions will further serve our intention.

Sincerely,
Matthew Victor Lorenzi
Vice President, Local 567

- Trebor

Posted at 10:59 AM in American Airlines-Labor, American Airlines, Transport Workers Union | Permalink

i am assuming that Little is opposed to Lorenzis' position on this issue?

 

[TWU-NYC]

there is obviosly widespread dissatisfaction with Little.but Little is not the TWU.why throw the baby out with the bathwater.bring your issues to the floor of the next convention.there is a massive opposition to Little developing at local 100.nyc transit workers are fed up with the Toussaint /Little collaboration style engagement with these bosses.local 100 constitutes about 1/3 of the TWU,and the vast majority of convention delegates will not support Little ,especially if he keeps up his political support of the sell out Toussaint.i know it will not solve any ATD problems in the short term,but we can restore the TWU back to its members.we need to start now.we need to get out info on the issues each industry is facing,and how Little is handling or mishandling each situation.we need to join forces.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

there is obviosly widespread dissatisfaction with Little.but Little is not the TWU.why throw the baby out with the bathwater.bring your issues to the floor of the next convention.there is a massive opposition to Little developing at local 100.nyc transit workers are fed up with the Toussaint /Little collaboration style engagement with these bosses.local 100 constitutes about 1/3 of the TWU,and the vast majority of convention delegates will not support Little ,especially if he keeps up his political support of the sell out Toussaint.i know it will not solve any ATD problems in the short term,but we can restore the TWU back to its members.we need to start now.we need to get out info on the issues each industry is facing,and how Little is handling or mishandling each situation.we need to join forces.

Some of us have long stated that the railroad and the airline division should join forces on common issues. It would be in the best interest to bargain from a position a strength as opposed to independently. The goal of a union is to monopolize an industry which will allow for better bargaining. Jim Little and his underlings are not my idea of leaders of a union.

 

[The Goose]

i am assuming that Little is opposed to Lorenzis' position on this issue?

It has the potential to remove dues-paying members from the union - of course Little is opposed.

 

[The Goose]

there is obviosly widespread dissatisfaction with Little.but Little is not the TWU.why throw the baby out with the bathwater.bring your issues to the floor of the next convention.there is a massive opposition to Little developing at local 100.nyc transit workers are fed up with the Toussaint /Little collaboration style engagement with these bosses.local 100 constitutes about 1/3 of the TWU,and the vast majority of convention delegates will not support Little ,especially if he keeps up his political support of the sell out Toussaint.i know it will not solve any ATD problems in the short term,but we can restore the TWU back to its members.we need to start now.we need to get out info on the issues each industry is facing,and how Little is handling or mishandling each situation.we need to join forces.

Unfortunately, there is no mechanism to remove the trash infesting the International - those people have made certain they're not accountable to the membership.

Look at it this way - if the Congress and Senate made laws/rules that actually made them accountable to the electorate, how long do you think any of them would last?

Just as dealing with corporate executive trash, the only way to get the attention of these people is to threaten their financial security; i. e., find another union.

 

[TWU-NYC]

Unfortunately, there is no mechanism to remove the trash infesting the International - those people have made certain they're not accountable to the membership.

Look at it this way - if the Congress and Senate made laws/rules that actually made them accountable to the electorate, how long do you think any of them would last?

Just as dealing with corporate executive trash, the only way to get the attention of these people is to threaten their financial security; i. e., find another union.

they can all be sent packing if like-minded rank and file delegates stick it to them at the convention

 

[Chuck Schalk]

they can all be sent packing if like-minded rank and file delegates stick it to them at the convention

Have you ever been to the TWU convention? It is far from democratic and very political in nature. Unless you have a unified group and solidarity on your voting prior to the convention. The elections are conducted by calling out yea or nay and the man at the podium decides on who yells the loudest. The alternates are commonly yelling out their vote even though they are suppose to be observing only. The need for electronic voting has not and probably will not be addressed because it hold everyone accountable for their vote.

 

[UAL_TECH]

The Presidents Council took the time for negotiating training. Is this suppose to make us feel like they really have a say in contract negotiations? For anyone to think it does, is misinformed! [The TWU International encouraged the concessions of 2003 and now they act like they don't know what we need. The Presidents Council does not need training, they need the TWU International to demand our contract back and lead the membership into battle. But that won't happen, The TWU will hide behind the Presidents Council and blame everything on the Negotiating Committee and the members because they were trained. Even though the Negotiating Committee or the members do not own the contract. Meaning that Jim Little and Gary Yingst have to sign off on the contract not the Negotiating Committee. That is why the negotiating Committee are labeled as only witnesses to the contract( look in your contract book).
The TWU is so entrenched with the company that it is difficult to tell which represents us. This whole project of opening the contract early is a farse. The contract in my opinion has been already discussed and the needs are set awaiting for the games to begin in November. We are mere pawns in this game and the earlier you realize it, the better off you will be to accept your predetermined fate. If the TWU International is just a shadow of the company, then why do we need the TWU International in the Air Transport Division? Anyone can do what the company requests. Remember, the TWU ATD did not support any strikes, bankruptcy, or abrogation of contracts with any real teeth. Talk is just talk! Some were non AFL/CIO and some were AFL/CIO members! To me what is the difference if it will affect us down the road? What is the ATD Purpose if they didn't try to protect our industry!
Negotiations is not what it seems!

Just agree with it. Membership ratification is not necessary.
This is a proven fact...😛
Maybe you should get in the Teamsters, hear that they have one hell of a retirement scam......er plan 😛
Good luck to us 'all'!!!

Take Care,
B) UAL_TECH

 

[Raptor]

Just agree with it. Membership ratification is not necessary.
This is a proven fact...😛
Maybe you should get in the Teamsters, hear that they have one hell of a retirement scam......er plan 😛
Good luck to us 'all'!!!

Take Care,
B) UAL_TECH

You know given a choice of the Union having control of my Pension or the Company, I think I would choose the Company, I think I would trust them more with it.

Not that I would really trust either one.