TWU negotiations.........what?

[TWU informer]

I'd still like to know how much they pay FWAAA and eolesen to pound the company mantra on these forums.

However, they refuse to answer how much they get paid and the name of the firm they work for to do this work.

I have decided until they tell me, their postings are not even their true opinions but rather paid bantering that is likely being subsidized by our concessions.

It's just like AA Management to hire a firm to monitor internet forums and pay someone a rediculous consulting fee to argue with those of us trying to sustain a standard of living that is lower than the consultant being paid to tell how good we have it.

Probably some offshoot of PlaneBusiness and Holly World. Just like some management leach to make a profit at the expense of airline workers and their families.

 

[Hopeful]

If you truly believe the only way someone could possibly disagree with the union's perspective is to be bribed or hired as a consultant, then I suggest you either start doubling up on the Reynolds Wrap, or see your doctor to have your med dosage updated...

There's no issue with disagreeing here. What makes me personally curious is that people who don't work for AA, or no longer work for AA post here as if they are management. Thats the argument here. No one is saying you don't have a right to opine here....But you have to admit, you and FWAAA and FrugalFlyer, just to name a couple, are defending and seemingly pushing the company's message. And let's be honest, no member of management can openly post on a forum like this without fear of losing his/her job. Even openly defending the company position is a big NONO....
If we were all in a room having a live debate, it would be strictly a labor vs. management forum....not labor vs. management vs. OTHERS!

Sorry, but we can't help but wonder if you and others actually work for AA or were hired to post here on their behalf.

 

[Barfbag]

If we were all in a room having a live debate, it would be strictly a labor vs. management forum....not labor vs. management vs. OTHERS!

The bottom line is nothing that is posted here amounts to a heap of turds.

We seem to leave out Joe SixPack, and John Q Public in our discussions.These guys really control our destiny. They sit at their computers at home or in their cubicles at work searching for the lowest air fares and could care less what airline they fly.

The airline industry will contnue it's downward spiral offering more Walmart style wages and benefits in this and future contracts to it's employees.

Maybe it's time to move on, and get real jobs ( if you can find one ).

 

[The Goose]

The bottom line is nothing that is posted here amounts to a heap of turds.

We seem to leave out Joe SixPack, and John Q Public in our discussions.These guys really control our destiny. They sit at their computers at home or in their cubicles at work searching for the lowest air fares and could care less what airline they fly.

The airline industry will contnue it's downward spiral offering more Walmart style wages and benefits in this and future contracts to it's employees.

Maybe it's time to move on, and get real jobs ( if you can find one ).

That's the conclusion I came to a few years ago but, unfortunately, I've got this age and retirement thing going on.

 

[Birdman]

The bottom line is nothing that is posted here amounts to a heap of turds.

We seem to leave out Joe SixPack, and John Q Public in our discussions.These guys really control our destiny. They sit at their computers at home or in their cubicles at work searching for the lowest air fares and could care less what airline they fly.

The airline industry will contnue it's downward spiral offering more Walmart style wages and benefits in this and future contracts to it's employees.

Maybe it's time to move on, and get real jobs ( if you can find one ).

I like my job just fine thank you. And some of us even think its a "real job" worth fighting for. The compAAny is full aware of the consequences of adopting Walmart style wages and benefits. Morale and productivity are at a all time low. Expiring yield on its aging fleet is reaching critical mass and a healthy workforce is their only salvation. That is our bargaining power.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sorry, but we can't help but wonder if you and others actually work for AA or were hired to post here on their behalf.

The problem is that unless one agrees with every word some say they're automatically deemed to be pushing the company line. I don't recall FWAAA or eolsen ever saying anyone shouldn't try to get a raise or should give more concessions, but because they don't toe the "Restore and More" line they're dismissed as company shills. I always thought facts are just that - facts - and that they don't take sides, just present reality. Yet pointing to independent sources of information is pushing the company propaganda while fantasy's such as AA supposedly making an $11 billion gross profit last year is accepted without question since it supports the hard line position.

That's why I've given up on this discussion, which I began participating in only to answer a question. Opinions are set in stone and any facts that don't agree with the opinions of some are not just not accepted but result in insults. You can all have your fantasy world - I'm done.

Jim

 

[Bob Owens]

That's a 7.5% increase coming on top of a 20% decline. A 7.5% increase in unit revenue over 1Q2009 certainly signals the return of fat city. Oh, that's right, 1Q2009 unit revenue was down 20% from 1Q2008. Drag. That means that 1Q2010 will be down only 14% from 1Q2008.

To get back to 2008 unit revenue, there'd have to be a 25% increase in this first quarter. It's gonna take a real plethora of good news just to get back to 2008 revenue. Good luck with that.

Yea, like the pilots demand for a 50% payraise based on a the fact that they lost 50% of their real earnings, and its being touted as unreasonable.

Funny how your tune changes when the numbers dont work for you.

 

[FWAAA]

Yea, like the pilots demand for a 50% payraise based on a the fact that they lost 50% of their real earnings, and its being touted as unreasonable.

It would take a 100% payraise to get back to where they were if they lost 50% of their real earnings; it's not "touted as unreasonable," it's clearly a fact that AA cannot afford a 100% raise for the same reason you cannot afford a 100% increase in your costs.

Funny how your tune changes when the numbers dont work for you.

I apologize for being so dense, Bob, but I don't see any inconsistency in my "tune." Would you be so kind as to point out any inconsistencies you find?

 

[Bob Owens]

It would take a 100% payraise to get back to where they were if they lost 50% of their real earnings; it's not "touted as unreasonable," it's clearly a fact that AA cannot afford a 100% raise for the same reason you cannot afford a 100% increase in your costs.

Wow, thanks for that note of concern. The fact is we''ve seen our costs go up around 50% compared to our income and the company doesnt care a lick. Its at the point where we cant afford to work at AA anymore, or at least we cant afford to let any opportunity pass us by that might generate OT. Sorry for the inconvience. Why should we care what the company claims they can afford? They lie to us all the time. They can still afford bonuses for the executives.

Maybe if we call their bluff you will simply have to pay more when you fly.

The inconsistancy is that you are taking numbers that suit your arguement but you complain when others do it. You cite that the current 7.5% increase in unit revenue is still 14% down when compared to what the company earned in 2008, a year that started off with unusually high unit revenue but then attack the pilots for asking for 50% which in real terms would only restore their real earnings back to 1992 levels. You say that the current 7.5% increase is really still a decrease from a historical perspective but dont give the pilots position the same consideration.

 

[Ralph]

There's going to be just one post...no excuses. The accusations of someone being a company employee, plant, shill, or whatever are to stop now. By the same token, accusations of someone being slavishly pro-union are to stop now.

Whether a member is or is not an employee of American Airlines is no one's business--especially yours. Just because someone does not agree with you is not proof-positive of their employment. Discuss the issues, not each other.

If there are any more such statements, a mandatory 14 days off will be awarded with moderator preview upon return.

"It is generally safe to translate 'biased'...as someone who doesn't agree with me."
Jon Meacham, editor of Newsweek

 

[Birdman]

Ok, so the compAAny and union will resume negotiations on the 29th of April for a two week session. I've only heard of one compAAny negotiator mentioned by name. Mark Easton. I'm wondering if has the authority to negotiate in "good faith"? Any word on anyone else who will be in attendance?

 

[Hopeful]

Ok, so the compAAny and union will resume negotiations on the 29th of April for a two week session. I've only heard of one compAAny negotiator mentioned by name. Mark Easton. I'm wondering if has the authority to negotiate in "good faith"? Any word on anyone else who will be in attendance?

This is mainly for show as the company requested that the NMB hold off on releasing us and have to act as if they want an agreement.
So, yea, the company is rolling up its sleeves, brewing coffee for round the clock negotiations, locking the doors, so they DON'T change their position and continue to offer ZERO.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- So where is the TWU in this?--------- Where are the informational pickets? Where are the full page adds in major city papers? After all this time, they should be screaming at the top of their lungs! Are they really asleep at the switch? How long do they expected the AMT's to just sit on their hands?

 

[Birdman]

<_< ------- So where is the TWU in this?--------- Where are the informational pickets? Where are the full page adds in major city papers? After all this time, they should be screaming at the top of their lungs! Are they really asleep at the switch? How long do they expected the AMT's to just sit on their hands?

In a coma.
Nowhere
Taken up with bags of money complaining about upper management compensation.
Not asleep, dead.
Baa-baa.

 

[Hopeful]

In a coma.
Nowhere
Taken up with bags of money complaining about upper management compensation.
No asleep, dead.
Baa-baa.

I am not saying we should roll over and play dead, but just like the flying public does not care about executive compensation, they care less about union workers. Unless a union pilot or mechanic causes an accident, only then will they care and their lawyers will care even more.

Employee morale, good or bad, will help a customer decide whether to fly AA again.