TWU/IAM Members: How Long Will Negotiations Take?

[WeAAsles]

 
Get me an agreement that pays me what I'm worth compared to the rest of the industry and I will stop preaching how worthless you are as a rep.
 
Why should my compensation package be worth 20%-30% less then my industry peers?
 
What is a bargaining representative for?  Thus far, I have not seen my bargaining representative do their job where my compensation is concerned. I work for much less, and do the same things as my peers and I have no opportunity to fire you!.
 
 

You only make much less than the peers you want to compare yourselves to.

From how I see it you still live in a very nice house on a very nice street. Pretty soon though you'll be able to buy that mansion that you believe you should live in. I hope it brings you happiness?

2014 Median Pay $56,980 per year
$27.40 per hour

http://www.bls.gov/o...technicians.htm
 

 

[DallasConehead]

2014 Median Pay $56,980 per year
$27.40 per hour

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Installation-Maintenance-and-Repair/Aircraft-and-avionics-equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm

But my guess is that you make currently closer to $70,000 per year? So let's do a comparison here. According to the CNN cost of living calculator going between if you made $70,000 in Brooklyn NY and you moved to Dallas. Your pricing power goes up to $125,913. 

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/index.html

Now I'm by far not saying that you don't deserve to make the same $$MONEY$$ that others who you choose to compare yourself to make. But i certainly am saying that when it comes to the constant complaining you do on here, you don't really have as big a leg to stand on as you think you do.

At least financially your life doesn't suc as much as you like to complain it does so much and so often on here.

Now if you ever got laid off to NYC making only $70k, maybe I could understand your frustration? 

That's a BLS statistic and is completely skewed to include all. Not line technicians working at the majors. I resent you even throwing crap like that up, don't be an idiot.

 

[dfw gen]

2014 Median Pay $56,980 per year
$27.40 per hour

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Installation-Maintenance-and-Repair/Aircraft-and-avionics-equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm

But my guess is that you make currently closer to $70,000 per year? So let's do a comparison here. According to the CNN cost of living calculator going between if you made $70,000 in Brooklyn NY and you moved to Dallas. Your pricing power goes up to $125,913. 

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/index.html

Now I'm by far not saying that you don't deserve to make the same $$MONEY$$ that others who you choose to compare yourself to make. But i certainly am saying that when it comes to the constant complaining you do on here, you don't really have as big a leg to stand on as you think you do.

At least financially your life doesn't suc as much as you like to complain it does so much and so often on here.

Now if you ever got laid off to NYC making only $70k, maybe I could understand your frustration? 

never said financially hurting in fact ill be very comfortable. my biggest ***** is the benefits. the holiday, holiday pay, sick time. look what we gave back you cant dwell on. what pisses me off is record profits and we are seeing no improvements. none, nada, zip. its been 1 year and 2 months since EVERYONE but association members got 4% raises and 9 months since the fix was in on the association. all i have are promises of new equipment and a new and improved contract and benefits. its not the raise per se but the fact that we are NOT seeing anything. back to the kool aid when i see improvement i will gladly admit and eat crow. but the bull s*it promises had enough of them, the only thing that will change my attitude will be results. and to be honest the longer this charade goes on doesnt matter what you pay or do the damage is done moral will never improve to what it was.
 
oh and $79,414 base pay. a little over time.....    

 

[WeAAsles]

That's a BLS statistic and is completely skewed to include all. Not line technicians working at the majors. I resent you even throwing crap like that up, don't be an idiot.

Ok let's try this one out on you then.

Home values in the Dallas area were on the decline from 2008 to almost 2013 when they finally started rising again. The bottom was in 2012 at $92,500. We all took pay cuts in 2003 and in the intervening years the average home value only rose to $142,000 in Dec 2016 according to Zillow.

Back in 1997 I was able to buy and afford a house when I was only making $13.00 per hour. My top out didn't come till 2003.

Now this is Dallas where the property values would be higher than where most people who work at DFW would live. You can do your own comparison for Arlington, Grapevine, Bedford or wherever it is you live?

http://www.zillow.com/dallas-tx/home-values/

Again I'm still wondering why you guys complain so much? At least financially knowing how much you make and what you can afford I don't get it?

 

[dfw gen]

as a show of good faith the company could have given an across the board 4% raise. instead they like to wave the carrot. im sure if they would have given the raise across the board a LOT of guys would have said "hey lets give them a chance". again its not the raise and the money with it for me, its the fact of the symbolism of not seeing anything out of the profitability that WE ALL built for this company. mark my words by the time oil goes back up in price all the top management will be long gone when the new management will be back knocking on the door for relief. and we would have wasted the last 14 months doing nothing. and probably the next 6 months wasting time before the next bankruptcy.

 

[WeAAsles]

never said financially hurting in fact ill be very comfortable. my biggest #### is the benefits. the holiday, holiday pay, sick time. look what we gave back you cant dwell on. what pisses me off is record profits and we are seeing no improvements. none, nada, zip. its been 1 year and 2 months since EVERYONE but association members got 4% raises and 9 months since the fix was in on the association. all i have are promises of new equipment and a new and improved contract and benefits. its not the raise per se but the fact that we are NOT seeing anything. back to the kool aid when i see improvement i will gladly admit and eat crow. but the bull s*it promises had enough of them, the only thing that will change my attitude will be results. and to be honest the longer this charade goes on doesnt matter what you pay or do the damage is done moral will never improve to what it was.
 
oh and $79,414 base pay. a little over time.....    

Ok. On some of these things I understand your point of view and share your frustration. But still everything I see in what you wrote were things taken away by the company.

The company is no matter what the one who controls the bank accounts. And it's the company that has been the one that could have thrown a bone to show some good faith and chose not to.

The Company........

 

[WeAAsles]

as a show of good faith the company could have given an across the board 4% raise. instead they like to wave the carrot. im sure if they would have given the raise across the board a LOT of guys would have said "hey lets give them a chance". again its not the raise and the money with it for me, its the fact of the symbolism of not seeing anything out of the profitability that WE ALL built for this company. mark my words by the time oil goes back up in price all the top management will be long gone when the new management will be back knocking on the door for relief. and we would have wasted the last 14 months doing nothing. and probably the next 6 months wasting time before the next bankruptcy.

You must have been writing your last comment while I was writing mine.

My guess is that next week the company will announce record 4th quarter and full year results. Once again we'll get a letter from Doug Parker saying thank you and how much he appreciates the job we do for him and that it couldn't have happened without all of our hard work.

I really am getting tired of those letters now.

 

[dfw gen]

Ok. On some of these things I understand your point of view and share your frustration. But still everything I see in what you wrote were things taken away by the company.

The company is no matter what the one who controls the bank accounts. And it's the company that has been the one that could have thrown a bone to show some good faith and chose not to.

The Company........

absolutely correct. have no doubt the unions aka the association drug this out. from the get go they should have had committees working on contract integration. and i mean from December of last year,instead they did what they normally do, the minimum. and the company loved every minute of the infighting. keep in mind a week of negotiations is not really a week. the committee travels on Monday so Monday is a half day at best and they travel home on Friday so Friday is a half day at best. updates come out at approximately 1300 on Friday do you think they come back from lunch and write the updates? or are they written Thursday evening?

 

[WeAAsles]

absolutely correct. have no doubt the unions aka the association drug this out. from the get go they should have had committees working on contract integration. and i mean from December of last year,instead they did what they normally do, the minimum. and the company loved every minute of the infighting. keep in mind a week of negotiations is not really a week. the committee travels on Monday so Monday is a half day at best and they travel home on Friday so Friday is a half day at best. updates come out at approximately 1300 on Friday do you think they come back from lunch and write the updates? or are they written Thursday evening?

Alright maybe they should have? But now it's way past being spilled milk. That clock can't be turned back and at least in Fleet I hear they're getting along very well now.

I also know that many people would rather they don't go home on the weekends at all to see their families. Just keep going till it can all be hammered out. Put yourself in those shoes. I don't care if they were elected or not, would you go for months without seeing your family or taking care of personal responsibilities? Let's also not forget that you have Lawyers on the company side (Jerry Glass) Do you think Jerry Glass or any on team AA would agree to that? I'm surprised they even agreed to take the negotiations all over the country personally. They didn't agree to that with the agents.

Last week they were in DC. Do you think they should have stuck around with that monster storm barreling down?

Right now we have multiple back to back weeks scheduled. That's not anything that I've seen before when it comes to airline negotiations. Go look over at SWA and check out those updates. How about UAL? That's a freakin nightmare for some groups still.

 

[dfw gen]

Alright maybe they should have? But now it's way past being spilled milk. That clock can't be turned back and at least in Fleet I hear they're getting along very well now.

I also know that many people would rather they don't go home on the weekends at all to see their families. Just keep going till it can all be hammered out. Put yourself in those shoes. I don't care if they were elected or not, would you go for months without seeing your family or taking care of personal responsibilities? Let's also not forget that you have Lawyers on the company side (Jerry Glass) Do you think Jerry Glass or any on team AA would agree to that? I'm surprised they even agreed to take the negotiations all over the country personally. They didn't agree to that with the agents.

Last week they were in DC. Do you think they should have stuck around with that monster storm barreling down?

Right now we have multiple back to back weeks scheduled. That's not anything that I've seen before when it comes to airline negotiations. Go look over at SWA and check out those updates. How about UAL? That's a freakin nightmare for some groups still.

you can schedule all you want. still no results.

 

[WeAAsles]

you can schedule all you want. still no results.

It's been 2 weeks and they have TA'd some articles. And every article is important.

 

[DallasConehead]

Ok let's try this one out on you then.

Home values in the Dallas area were on the decline from 2008 to almost 2013 when they finally started rising again. The bottom was in 2012 at $92,500. We all took pay cuts in 2003 and in the intervening years the average home value only rose to $142,000 in Dec 2016 according to Zillow.

Back in 1997 I was able to buy and afford a house when I was only making $13.00 per hour. My top out didn't come till 2003.

Now this is Dallas where the property values would be higher than where most people who work at DFW would live. You can do your own comparison for Arlington, Grapevine, Bedford or wherever it is you live?

http://www.zillow.com/dallas-tx/home-values/

Again I'm still wondering why you guys complain so much? At least financially knowing how much you make and what you can afford I don't get it?

 
This is just another example of people from you craft, bemoaning people of mine. The fact is , you resent that I and those in my craft took the time and made the sacrifice to learn our craft. You resent us and since you control the representative you hold our wages and benefits down and have done so for decades, and you prevent us from exercising our rights as free citizens and our ability to seek a new representative.
 
You, who goes by the idiom that "a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone", thinks that your pay for throwing bags, or loading pallets, should be commensurate with mine, the guy who repairs 787s, certifying its ability to complete the mission of flying from here to the far east and back. We are completely different and I resent you and are angry at you for holding me down and impinging on my career with your foolish ideas about the worth of my career path and craft.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
This is just another example of people from you craft, bemoaning people of mine. The fact is , you resent that I and those in my craft took the time and made the sacrifice to learn our craft. You resent us and since you control the representative you hold our wages and benefits down and have done so for decades, and you prevent us from exercising our rights as free citizens and our ability to seek a new representative.
 
You, who goes by the idiom that "a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone", thinks that your pay for throwing bags, or loading pallets, should be commensurate with mine, the guy who repairs 787s, certifying its ability to complete the mission of flying from here to the far east and back. We are completely different and I resent you and are angry at you for holding me down and impinging on my career with your foolish ideas about the worth of my career path and craft.

Wow you have it so wrong it's out of even the same ballpark. I don't bemoan or resent you at all. Not even one tiny little bit. If you were making $100.00 per hour for what you do I'd say "good show" congratulations. I don't believe in Class warfare or envy. I'm not jealous of money, cars, jewelry, houses or the prestige you think comes with those things. And I wonder way more why people in my group are unhappy and complain much more than yours.

But see. From everything you write it still comes across to me like the only thing that can make you happy is making more $$MONEY$$

There are a lot of things out there in this world that can make someone happy that have nothing to do with money. But if that's what YOU need I hope you can get the amount one day that get's you there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awAH-JJx1k

 

[Overspeed]

2014 Median Pay $56,980 per year
$27.40 per hour
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Installation-Maintenance-and-Repair/Aircraft-and-avionics-equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm
But my guess is that you make currently closer to $70,000 per year? So let's do a comparison here. According to the CNN cost of living calculator going between if you made $70,000 in Brooklyn NY and you moved to Dallas. Your pricing power goes up to $125,913. 
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/index.html
Now I'm by far not saying that you don't deserve to make the same $$MONEY$$ that others who you choose to compare yourself to make. But i certainly am saying that when it comes to the constant complaining you do on here, you don't really have as big a leg to stand on as you think you do.
At least financially your life doesn't suc as much as you like to complain it does so much and so often on here.
Now if you ever got laid off to NYC making only $70k, maybe I could understand your frustration?

I like and dislike the calculators because they lump all areas of a city together but they are a reasonable measuring stick.

OT is rampant in DFW. Add about another $15K over base 2080 hours. Don't know what fleet OT is at. While I believe we all need a raise I find it laughable that a lot of people claim they are at fast food wages. When the public hears us say that and then see our income it undermines public support.

Why doesn't the TWU promote what unions do to the traveling public? Our skills. I see IBEW commercials often promoting that they keep the lights on even when snow storms are keeping most people home safe. As airline ground staff we are out there right now battling the elements making sure they are safe and they get where they are going with their stuff. When people like Parker offer substandard wages we attract substandard talent. Union workers have no problem with expecting top tier work for top tier pay.

 

[WeAAsles]

I like and dislike the calculators because they lump all areas of a city together but they are a reasonable measuring stick.
OT is rampant in DFW. Add about another $15K over base 2080 hours. Don't know what fleet OT is at. While I believe we all need a raise I find it laughable that a lot of people claim they are at fast food wages. When the public hears us say that and then see our income it undermines public support.
Why doesn't the TWU promote what unions do to the traveling public? Our skills. I see IBEW commercials often promoting that they keep the lights on even when snow storms are keeping most people home safe. As airline ground staff we are out there right now battling the elements making sure they are safe and they get where they are going with their stuff. When people like Parker offer substandard wages we attract substandard talent. Union workers have no problem with expecting top tier work for top tier pay.

I like this. I don't know why Unions don't advertise? Union membership is a product as much as an ideology.

I still remember as a kid the ILGWU commercials. The song was very simple but it stuck in my head to this day.