Pilot Pension Anger is Growing & Enormous

[Slam&Click]

Chip

As a dedicated, professional airman, I would have expected that any aforementioned safety concerns you've expressed would have been addressed (by you) to the proper people, at the proper levels, and within the proper channels rather than here in a very public domain.

Rest assured that since you've claimed that everything you've posted is nothing but the truth, I have forwarded your posts of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally.

 

[cavalier]

[blockquote]
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On 1/18/2003 12:00:10 AM PITbull wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 1/17/2003 9:02:16 AM cavalier wrote:

I think all employees understand the way the pilot group feels. All the cuts they have made was to save the company and preserve their pension.

Now maybe the pilots know how the other employee groups feel that ALREADY lost their pension.

However, hopefully a solution can be found and EVERYONE can keep on working and save their own money for retirement.

Good luck to all.

Good luck to USAirways.

----------------------------------------------------------------

As a mechanic watching all my fellow co-workers hitting the streets and sitting at one of Dave's road shows hearing him respond to this question: Mr. Siegel, we have many older mechanics that if given an incentive they would retire and leave room for the junior mechanics with young families. Can you help us out with this issue? His answer was simply: No, we don't have the money for that sort of thing. Now here we are looking at the pilots pension fund problem, a very big problem. If the company didn't have the pennies, when compared to the pension fund problem, for early outs for mechanics, well then short of a miracle I can't see the company funding the pilots pension fund at anywhere near the level it was. If the pilots can't swallow like real hard, then I guess we will see the end of U and its long and very unstable history. There is no way the government is going to help out or in any way correct pension funds of those amounts. How do I know this, you’re kidding right?

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Cavalier,

You write that "maybe we can keep working, and save their own money for retirement"...
What money are you talking about? From wages over the next 6 years, or if and when we will be able to negotiate after..the far away year...of 2009? I can't even budget now for groceries let alone ritirement!


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[/blockquote]



I believe you better look at just who you are quoting here because it is NOT me saying everything you have posted......Cavalier

 

[cavalier]

How are the pilots going to fight? Do they believe fighting is going to preserve their pensions at the current levels? Even if your pension fund is taken over by the government, it will still be better than the IAM members with 30 years service, or at least close anyway. How much support do you really believe you can generate from co-workers or even government officials when they themselves don't command those kinds of retirement levels? What are the pilots going to collectively do, shut down the airline and force chapter 7, only to be left without a wage on top of a very much reduced pension? Where are you going to find support for the dream pensions that are being taken away as the dawn is breaking and you realize the world is gazing back with indifference?

It's pretty clear what is happening. The company is completely broke; only operating on the mercy of the courts and some big money betting U is a good long term investment. The days of flying into millions are over my dear fellow co-worker pilots. Just like everyone else hit hard in this terrible post 9/11 world, there are no sacred hiding places left. I for one do not gloat knowing the hard realities the pilots are looking at. I wish the pilots could all become millionaires in their golden years while the rest of us could go to work everyday not wondering if this will be our last weekly pay check, that we could actually plan a life based on a secure job and decent wages and benefits to care for our families. What is happening is affecting each and every one of us in very profound ways, which brings out the best and worst in each of us. We can really only be thankful for this very day we are living in and the health we enjoy, if we are so lucky to have even that much. All the ranting and raving screaming and name calling will do nothing positive for our futures. Accept the realities we all face and forge forward in a direction we each feel is in our best interest, not living in regret or bitterness, hoping for a better tomorrow. What else can one really do? Peace!

 

[GGpillow]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/18/2003 1:17:58 AM cavalier wrote:
[P]How are the pilots going to fight? o? Peace![/P]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][BR] Fighting means different things depending on the context. I would assume "fighting" in this case, will mean heavy duty lobbying by ALPA, of congress members in a position to make the needed changes to pension laws.[/P]

 

[WNjetdoc]

[blockquote]
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On 1/17/2003 7:43:43 AM ISN wrote:

Chip, welcome to the BOHICA club. I joined 10 years ago when I donated my pension to you. Now my pay is being cut from $22.00 an hour to $13.05, I can't even save for my own retirement now. This while WN pays agents $25.00 an hour to do less than I, and their pension is GREAT! This is a systematic screwing of all employees. We were first to bend over, now it's your turn.
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[/blockquote]
I have a couple of things w/this post. For one, where do you get that WN rampers do less than you? I am employed with WN right now and was employed w/U in the past. I can tell you for sure that you do not do more than a WN ramper, believe me pal. You may do just as much, maybe.....Maybe you can give examples, if Im wrong then I stand corrected....Also you are totally incorrect about WN rampers, (or any employee group for that matter), getting a pension. We do not have a pension. We have a great 401k and profit sharing program, but no pension from the company. I understand you being pissed at U for whats going on but do not take it out on WN or their employees.

 

[delldude]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/17/2003 7:43:43 AM ISN wrote:
[P]Chip, welcome to the BOHICA club. I joined 10 years ago when I donated my pension to you. Now my pay is being cut from $22.00 an hour to $13.05, I can't even save for my own retirement now. This while WN pays agents $25.00 an hour to do less than I, and their pension is GREAT! This is a systematic screwing of all employees. We were first to bend over, now it's your turn. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]ISN:can't you all see the direction the company is steering fleet and res?wonder why your pension was cut or why did they go with part time fleet or put those full time/part time layoff rules in their respective contracts?they don't envision making it lucrative for people in these groups to stay 20-30 years and have a 'career'.they want turn over,sure they want reliable employees but these jobs are for [EM]secondary income rather than primary.[/EM] like mickey dees......k mart....etc.... reasonable wage job but without the 'perks'. [BR] sure WN maybe getting alot more than at U,but expect all the givebacks and wage reductions here to be [EM]the[/EM] [EM]rule rather than the exception in the years to come for other contract negotioations in the aviation industry.[/EM] if we lower our costs to compete against them do you actually think they are going to keep spiraling upward to go where we just came from?[BR] ok,theres the srike threat,but they go on strike [EM]for higher wages and increased CASM costs,its all the better for U.i think if there would be strikes they may be ugly.[/EM]

 

[wnbubbleboy]

[blockquote]
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On 1/17/2003 7:43:43 AM ISN wrote:

Chip, welcome to the BOHICA club. I joined 10 years ago when I donated my pension to you. Now my pay is being cut from $22.00 an hour to $13.05, I can't even save for my own retirement now. This while WN pays agents $25.00 an hour to do less than I, and their pension is GREAT! This is a systematic screwing of all employees. We were first to bend over, now it's your turn.
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[/blockquote]
WN has a 401K/profit sharing 100% vested after 5 years. Top out for the ramp is after 12 years at 24$ and change. Do you know anyone that works for WN, because if they told you we have a pension, their lying to you.

 

[mrplanes]

Hold on there chippy:

"What’s even more concerning is that the pilots are very distracted by these events and are not focusing on flying"

Are YOU not focusing on flying? Are YOU so distracted that you are NOT doing your job? Don't be telling anyone that this pilot group is NOT focusing on flying. Distraction, no matter how bad, does NOT equate to not focusing on flying. When you make that jump, you call into question the professionalism and integrity of the most proficient and capable flyers in this industry. It is beyond comprehension that YOU can judge who is and is not focusing on flying. Do you follow the guys onto the flight deck after the crew room talk? You only see what is going on in the crew room. Not on the flight deck. Your SPECULATION is far from fact. As a check airman who does sit on the flight deck and in the simulator I see nothing but even MORE focus now. As well as anger. But the professionals at this company who fly our jets understand and realize how important it is to remain totally focused at this time. And if they aren't, they utilize sick time until they get back to where they need to be. And this group welcomes the additional FAA and check pilot scrutiny. If they tell us we aren't "focusing on flying" then we have a problem. Not because you think we do. And the FAA and Check Airmen have said no such thing.

Having said that, I agree with your premise about anger and outrage. But we have, and will continue, to keep those issues seperate from doing our jobs as well and as safely as we always have. In fact, I could make an extremely good argument that we are even MORE focused on flying since we know we have distractions south of the flight deck door. If YOU or anyone are not "focusing on flying" utilize your sick time. That too, is part of being a professional. You are right about outrage and anger, Chip. But you are WAY off base about us being not focused on flying.

mr

 

[REACC1]

[blockquote]
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On 1/18/2003 7:31:02 AM WNjetdoc wrote:

[blockquote]
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[/blockquote]
I have a couple of things w/this post. For one, where do you get that WN rampers do less than you? I am employed with WN right now and was employed w/U in the past. I can tell you for sure that you do not do more than a WN ramper, believe me pal. You may do just as much, maybe.....Maybe you can give examples, if Im wrong then I stand corrected....Also you are totally incorrect about WN rampers, (or any employee group for that matter), getting a pension. We do not have a pension. We have a great 401k and profit sharing program, but no pension from the company. I understand you being pissed at U for whats going on but do not take it out on WN or their employees.
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[/blockquote]

Nice little 7% match on that 401k though.

 

[MrAeroMan]

[blockquote]
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On 1/17/2003 800 PM chipmunn wrote:

What’s even more concerning is that the pilots are very distracted by these events and are not focusing on flying, which the FAA understands with their blanket policy to increase air carrier inspections during bankruptcy, but the pilot distraction is the worst I have seen in my career. Everybody is “steaming hot” and the only topic of conversation is the pension plan issue and Siegel’s memo to the pilots fueled the fire. My concern is if both pilot’s in a ****pit are distracted the chances of an accident dramatically increase and war more likely and US Airways cash position dwindling, what would an accident do to the company’s formal reorganization?

I believe Siegel needs to obtain legislative solution now or the airline could be liquidated. However, before it is liquidated according to Siegel he said "if the legislative relief fails, we will be forced to file a distress termination of the existing plan."


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[/blockquote]
I just flew CLT to ORD and back Friday and had I seen this post prior to departure I guarantee you I would have been on ATA instead of U. I purposely chose U over ATA. $550.00 vs/ $250.00. ORD was further away from my meeting place than MDW but I chose U because of the way I've been treated in the past and b/c of friends and family working at the airline so I decided to spend my money there.
Chip, I don't think I need to tell you what a dangerous and ignorant post you put on a PUBLIC website. Apparently you and I were in CLT at the same time. I'm just thankful I wasn't going to DCA with you in control of the aircraft and your stress level issues in there with you.
As for my flight the entire crew on both flights to and from ORD were exceptional. Pilots friendly, talkative, laughing with pax and crew and generally warm. I've seen stressed pilots before and let me tell you these guys weren't stressed like Chip says is out there. I still can't believe you posted that garbage on a public website.

 

[allegheny1]

how about getting back to the pension issue.
i have followed the posts under various threads regarding this issue
and it seems that some avenues have not been explored or stones have been left unturned.
1. during the senate hearing the pbgc indicated that the irs has the
authority to grant payment extentions.....did anyone immediately petition
the irs for such an extention.
2. given the circumstances i would think that the company and the alpa mec
and pension experts would be working closely together the come up with
the least onerous solution to the dilema....not just waiting for
congresional action which may never come. this does not appear to be
happening
3. would a freeze of the pension or conversion to a cash balance account be
less harmfull than a distress termination. has anyone even looked at
these alternatives.
4. what is dave s alternative...has anyone asked for the details. is it
workable.
lots and lots of alternatives...but only if all sides are working together.

 

[savyinvestor]

Slam, Don't assume Siegel and ALPA know of the post in question. That post is so off the wall that it needs to be sent to the proper authorities. Would you fly with someone making those kind of statements? What if someting happened and the post was not reported? Thank You, Savy

 

[savyinvestor]

[blockquote]
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On 1/17/2003 11:55:41 PM Slam&Click wrote:

Chip

As a dedicated, professional airman, I would have expected that any aforementioned safety concerns you've expressed would have been addressed (by you) to the proper people, at the proper levels, and within the proper channels rather than here in a very public domain.

Rest assured that since you've claimed that everything you've posted is nothing but the truth, I have forwarded your posts of concern to Mr. Siegel and US ALPA so that any real concerns may be addressed properly, professionally and internally.
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[/blockquote]
Slam, Thank you on behalf of everyone who reads these boards INCLUDING THE FLYING PUBLIC for forwarding the quote referenced to the appropriate authorities. I believe flying an airplane takes great skill,training and above all proper judgement to use the skills,and training acquired. Savy

 

[Slam&Click]

Savy -
I have worked for U, I have family that has worked and retired from U...trust me, I have a lot of friends and associates at U. This is not going to fall on deaf ears, nor is it going to stop here.

I question the focus of only one particular employee, and I have reported that along with the web address and posts in question.

 

[pitguy]

I am not sure why any pilot would want to start a fight regarding their retirement now. The company has no choice. They have no money and hence have no options, but to end the pilot retirement as we know it. There is no one to fight since the company has no other options or choices it can make.


---The pilots need to "live to fight another day".


---Chip, If you do not feel well (or if you feel stressed) please do not fly the C-130's either. In time we will all get through this. I hope your other job offer works out for you. Best of luck.