Pilot Pension Anger is Growing & Enormous

[pitguy]

The reason they need to come out of Ch-11 sooner than later is to have access to the ATSB backed loans and other monies to weather this recession. Currently there is very limited funds in the bank.

Dave did say that it would be up to each labor group to fix their own pension problems. I would hate to think someone thought the pension would fix itself.

If this was another labor group I feel some of the pilot group would be telling them how good it is for them. Please remember through all of this that it still allot of money and you will not starve.

 

[Slam&Click]

[blockquote]
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On 1/17/2003 800 PM chipmunn wrote:

Whats even more concerning is that the pilots are very distracted by these events and are not focusing on flying..........What's most concerning to me is that pilots are clearly distracted from their job and not focused on flying, which is just another reason why Siegel needs to be singularly focused on obtaining legislative relief.

Chip

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[/blockquote]

Are you totally out of your mind?! Do you think before you type this hogwash?! Someone needs to bend you over their knee and give you a good a-s-s whooping. This is a public forum, use your head for goodness sakes!

I would fly US any day of the week, under any financial condition. These men and women are top notch safety-first professionals. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Chip, if you are too distracted by these events I suggest that you contact crew scheduling and remove yourself from the roster and claim that you believe that you are unfit to fly. However, to post this "projection" of unfit professional air personnel is simply ugly, unnecessary, drama driven and extremely UNPROFESSIONAL. Every US Airways employee should complain, formally, about your post!

Oh, and for the record the pension situation chomps, big time.

 

[767jetz]

I don't know, Chip. I'm actually behind you on this pension issue. The thought of terminating your pension is an outrage! As a fellow pilot I understand how long and hard we work for, and rely on the pension. A loss like that, especially for a senior group, is un-recoverable.

But I think it's a bit extreme to imply that unless Dave focuses soley on this issue, USAir is at risk of an accident. I think that the public should be reassured that as professionals, when the brakes are released and the throttles pushed forward, the only thing on our mind is SAFETY. (CHIP - this is not a criticism to you. Just a reassurance to your customers and ours)

No matter what our daily distractions are, (and there are many) the traveling public puts their ultimate trust in our professionalism. And they are ALWAYS in good hands. (Whether it's United, USAir, or our many competitors.)

Now you guys keep your chin up, stay focused, and lets not talk any more about bending metal.

 

[pitguy]

I hate to burst your bubble if you still believe in magic. The magician can not pull a rabbit out of a hat if there is no rabbit in the hat to begin with. So where will the company get it's money from if it has none to pay for this high priced retirement plan? It is not there. You can not just go to the ATM machine and take out more money like your children may think. It has to be in there to begin with. You guys are funny. You don't get it. There is no money. Shut the company down if you want then you will just be unemployed and still have a smaller retirement. Being prissy will get you no where. Whine and cry all you want but the company has no other options. Just be glad you had what you did as long as you did. It is time to get real. I know you are smarter than this.

 

[mlt]

Chip,[BR]When you post nonsense like this what little credibility you have diminishes rapidly. Either you are caught up in the land of tabloids or trying to lure readers in the manner newscasts use during sweeps week. i.e [STRONG]BREAKING RJ NEWS[BR][BR][/STRONG]You excel at cutting & pasting. Leave the speculations to the fortune tellers.

 

[chipmunn]

OldPropGuy:

I agree with your post, unfortunately the majority of the pilot's do not. Therefore, if this airline is going to survive management needs to satisfactorily solve this problem.

Chip

 

[chipmunn]

Biff:

4,700 pilot's who represent 10 percent of the workforce and 30 percent of the labor expense, provided 60 percent of the concessions.

32,000 non-pilot employees represent 90 percent of the workforce and 70 percent of the labor expense, provided 40 percent of the concessions.

4,700 pilots provided an average over $120,000 per year in pay and benefit cuts.

ALPA President Captain Duane Woerth testified before the U.S. Senate pilots have seen a 46 percent reduction in pay and benefits.

Pilot's and MSP are the only labor groups who cannot work overtime to reduce their gross pay cut.

Pilot's are the only labor group to be asked to give up their retirement. Management, the IAM, and the AFA are not and are not having their contract violated, which some people believe is outrageous since management came up with the modified ALPA pension plan.

Pilot's must retire by law at age 60, thus they receive the minimum PBGC benefit, which is discrimatory. Every other employee group can work to age 60 and recieve the maximum PBGC award.

If the pilot's are required to take a third concession, isn't it fair for management, the IAM, and AFA to see their pensions "distressed terminated" as well? Biff, since you continue to suggest ALPA take one for the team, why don't you suggest the IAM, AFA and management do the same? Wouldn't that be fair?

US Airways congressional delegation understands the issue and are closely working with ALPA to solve the problem to help prevent a liquidation.

Chip

 

[autofixer]

From a political view point, what kind of clout does a delegation from PA have? PA, as a state, did not vote for the current administration and U is percieved to be a "PA" airline, so use your imagination. I know how these politcal things work, having worked for a Senator in the early 1980s. It may not be fair, but perception is reality (in politics). I guess I am trying to say, do not expect a political solution...unless some back room deal is done to deliver PA in 2004.

 

[Slam&Click]

[blockquote]
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On 1/17/2003 9:53:51 PM chipmunn wrote:

... when an airline enters bankruptcy why do FAA guidelines require increased random inspections of the carrier operating under a court supervised restructuring? Moreover, why do Flight Departments send out memo's to pilot's to be more focused during the increased scrutiny?

Chip
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[/blockquote]

Gee, could it be that during bankruptcy less available cash flow and the ever present potential for corner cutting on all levels of maintaining a flight operation. That's the precise reason the FAA instituted the SAFETY mandate.

Regarding the issuance of memo to pilots -- hey, a no-brainer, Chip -- SAFETY first, now and always.

What part of your post was a good idea? The part where you've informed the general public that the safety of flying US was now questionable due to the lack of focus or the part where you were informing (informally) the bean counters and talking heads that your group was about to stage some sort of blackmailing "unsafe stance" in order to get your own way? If I can see through this crap, surely, they can.

Chip, you've most certainly placed a stain on the airline and the pilot profession today. The forum readers/contributors will be able to see through your endless search for attention and realize that the professional pilots and all of the employees at US Airways are now and have always been about safety.

 

[Baret4]

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On 1/17/2003 800 PM chipmunn wrote:

Some posters seem to believe that the pilot pension issue will be resolved, but I can tell you this. There is no employee who cares more for this company, wants the airline to succeed, and has communicated more than myself; however, my comments are falling on deaf years to many pilots I talk with who are acting on emotion.

What's important to recognize is that the Treasury Department is a voting member of the ATSB, the Treasury Department sits on the PBGC, and the PBGC is a voting member of the unsecured creditor’s committee.

After holding multiple discussions with the ATSB and PBGC, who both have seen the company’s restructuring business plan, who both have Treasury Department representatives, Dave Siegel came to the MEC shortly before filing the Plan of Reorganization (POR) on December 20, and told the MEC the PBGC would reject the company’s initial pension restoration plan.

The company then provided ALPA with the second pension cut proposal and the MEC ratified the modified restructuring agreement instead of holding membership ratification because of the importance of filing the POR on schedule. Interestingly, in the company’s December 20 POR Special Bulletin, the company said RSA and the unsecured creditor’s committee (which the PBGC is a member) were expected to endorse the Confirmation Statement on before the January 16 Omnibus Hearing; however, s strange thing happened.

Low and behold the PBGC then rejected US Airways restoration plan. At this point ALPA engaged the US Airways congressional delegation and the MEC believes the company has been indifferent in saving the pilot pension plan because from a financial perspective, “the company would be off the hook to meet its moral obligation to fund our pension”, a MEC member told me.

ALPA has made traction with US Airways congressional delegation as indicated by Senator Santorum introducing S.119 on the Senate floor, Senator Specter holding a Senate Appropriations Subcommittee hearing, and Senator Grassley agreeing to hold a hearing before the end of the month.

However, to date these efforts have not been enough to save the retirement plan and ALPA has no interest in a third major concession and the “gutting” if its pension. Roy Freundlich’s comments to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today accurately portray the MEC’s sentiment and I am absolutely stunned at the level of pilot anger over what one MEC member told me a Tuesday’s Senate hearing that Dave Siegel “torpedoed” the MEC’s effort to obtain a legislative solution.

What’s even more concerning is that the pilots are very distracted by these events and are not focusing on flying, which the FAA understands with their blanket policy to increase air carrier inspections during bankruptcy, but the pilot distraction is the worst I have seen in my career. Everybody is “steaming hot” and the only topic of conversation is the pension plan issue and Siegel’s memo to the pilots fueled the fire. My concern is if both pilot’s in a ****pit are distracted the chances of an accident dramatically increase and war more likely and US Airways cash position dwindling, what would an accident do to the company’s formal reorganization?

I believe Siegel needs to obtain legislative solution now or the airline could be liquidated. However, before it is liquidated according to Siegel he said "if the legislative relief fails, we will be forced to file a distress termination of the existing plan."

In my opinion, this would transition the restructuring to labor unfriendly. Previously Siegel has said that two things he knows: You don't fight with your spouse and you don't fight with your employees.

Well, from what I am hearing do not be surprised if the pilots "fly safe" and we see the operational performance like in December 1997 when Sabre was implemented or similar to the United pilots summer of 2000.

If this occurs in February, how would this effect the creditor's vote on the Confirmation Statement, the interest of the ATSB, RSA, or GECAS?

Today Judge Mitchell set forth the bankruptcy exit timeline that includes a confirmation hearing on the reorganization plan for March 18 to 20, with a March 31 target for emergence from Chapter 11.

If US Airways operation comes to a grinding halt due to emotion, what would happen to revenue, how would employees like their job, and would the company receive a court order to exit bankruptcy or could the airline be forced to liquidate?

Today I spent a signficant amount time in the DCA and CLT crew rooms, as well as receiving 78 email messages and the emotion is significant. What's most concerning to me is that pilots are clearly distracted from their job and not focused on flying, which is just another reason why Siegel needs to be singularly focused on obtaining legislative relief.

Chip

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Chip, Have you listened to Daves weekly message this week? He said "Terminating the currently pilots pension plan will NOT have a financial windfall for the company" Because they will have to replace the pension plan with another plan where the financial obligations are the same, but the payment plan would probably be more favorable to the company. That what is sounds like to me. No one looses anything???

 

[chipmunn]

I saw the distraction throughout the day where the only topic discussed was the pension issue.

By the way, when an airline enters bankruptcy why do FAA guidelines require increased random inspections of the carrier operating under a court supervised restructuring? Moreover, why do Flight Departments send out memo's to pilot's to be more focused during the increased scrutiny?

I agree with 767jetz that pilot's need to be focused all the time, but pilot's are human beings where some our more emotional than others. That's why there is an emphasis on CRM.

Chip

 

[Biffeman]

Funny how Chip and several other pilots were telling us IAM members and CWA members we need to take one for the team, Dave is the savior. But how come now when the pilots are gonna get their pension whacked does their attitude change?[BR][BR]

 

[us10]

Chip,

As a U pilot I think you have crossed the line here! You certainly don't speak for me or anyone I know. Chip, I have flown with pilots who were facing furlough within days and to their credit they remained absolutely professional and focused on task at hand.I wish you would consider editing your post and replace it with one that gives due credit to our fellow pilots.You know as well as I do any pilot feeling the type of stress you refer to would have the good sense to call off the trip.

 

[ilg30/7]

Until recently being furloughed, I worked as a pilot scheduler. Let me reassure any members of the traveling public who read this site of the absolute DEDICATION and PROFESSIONALISM of the USAirways pilot group. I have, through the years, dealt with crewmebers facing health problems, financial problems, family illness/death, and most recently, furlough. The one constant through all of this has been their dedication to running a safe airline. Always. Put simply, through the worst of times, every USAirways pilot I have dealt with has ALWAYS maintained his professionalism. In this regard, they are the best group I have ever worked with.

For one pilot to come on a public forum with a political agenda and question this professionalism is outrageous. It is an insult, not only to his fellow pilots, but for all of us (operations, training, dispatch, maintenance, inflight, the list goes on and on) who take pride in running the safest airline in the fleet.

Chip, I truly hope the pilot pension issue is resolved to everybody's satisfaction. But coming on here and posting this garbage does not win you any sympathy with anyone... and it certainly does not bring you any closer to your goal. I understand that you are trying to create some sort of leverage for ALPA to use in its discussions with management/Congress. This is NOT the way to go about it.

 

[D3o2r8kdrvr]

Will the last person out please remember to turn the lights off! This could be it, will we survive this mine field too?

What do you think?