No Entry Allowed!

[Raptor]

Now I see the whole picture, I knew there was a catch to this we were not allowed in business, from reading what you just wrote I think this is what happened you did not like the fact that Delle was not interested in debating someone from another Airline so you got mad and said well if he is not allowed to debate then we will not attend your meeting and all of you packed up and left.

Thanks for clearing things up for me CIO, Delle was there to debate a TWU Leader not someone from another Airline, he may have been willing to debate someone from Team TWU if offered, I do not know as I am not Delle, but no one from Team TWU offered to debate Delle, only some guy from United, we did not change the rules, no one from the TWU International showed up to debate that is a fact, and you and your group got mad cause we would not change the debate for you, so you left, you should have come in and asked your questions, Mr. Gorrmans came in, I really wanted to hear your questions to Delle and I am being sincere, but you chose to get mad and leave so the questions did not get asked, the TWU is losing Rick you had better start putting up a better fight, next time come in and ask your questions. OK

sounds to me like you are still mad Rick.

TWUer how come CIO had to answer my question the question was to you, I answered your questions why didn't you answer mine ?

Your statement that you were kicked out we now know is a lie, you never came in cause you got mad.

 

[Bob Owens]

Simple fact is over 10,000 members are unemployed under amfa watch!!!!!


Simple fact is after 42 years amfa record speaks for itself!!!!!!!

Simple fact is amfa has done more damage in the industry than any management personal!!!!!!

Simple fact is over 10,000 members are unemployed under amfa watch!!!!!

And guess what NWA is starting to call guys back! At full pay! Over 6000 TWU jobs have been lost as well as 17% of wages, most work rules, holidays, vacation, sick time, and just about everything else that most union workers expect.

Simple fact is after 42 years amfa record speaks for itself!!!!!!!

It certainly does. Where AMFA is you will find the best paid mechanics in the industry. From Ozark, to NWA to SWA AMFA represented mechanics make more money with better benifits and workrules than TWU or IAM represented mechanics. While AMFA has fought to raise our standards the TWU has led the industry in concessions for over 20 years with industry leading firsts as "Part timers", "no paid lunch", employee paid medical benifits, 12 year progressions, B-scale, straight time for training AFTER shift, prefunding, no-double time, only 5 holidays, half pay holidays, ONE WEEK of vacation for first five years, transfer of mechanics duties to lower paid classifications, creation of a nbew class of permenently lower paid mechanics-SRPs/OSMs and a lot more.


Simple fact is amfa has done more damage in the industry than any management personal!!!!!!

And the TWU has done more damage to airline workers than Frank Lorenzo and Aircon combined! Do you feel that the unions role to "help the industry" or help the workers?

 

[Bob Owens]

I will repeat! everyone has an expertice in their area of employment and should be given the respect. Amfa continues to shoot themselves in the foot. Another me too attitude!!!!

Amfa is willing to sacrafice everyone in order to survive!!!

Tell that to the TWU represented building cleaners, and the cabin cleaners and the 4000 baggage handlers that are in the street!

The TWU was willing to sacrifice the 6000 jobs that have been lost along with a big chunk of our pay and most benifits.

By the way, what is wrong with a "me too" attitude? Are members wrong for wanting to be included?

 

[Ed Norton]

Amfa showed true colors today!!!

The TWU came to debate with;

Members from the TWU

Members from Horizon

Members from United

Members from Northwest

Members from the TWU International

Members from the AFL-CIO

Members from The Rank and File

Delle refused to debate any of them. Would not allow over 200 strong to attend.

Amfa turned away more members that those in attendance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amfa had members from;

The East to the West Coast attend,

Amfa National Members

Unelected members

Kids

Wives

Oh Yes! they even had local organizers attend!!!!

I do have to give them credit, they did allow a few Members to attend, as long as they did not have on TWU items.


Here was a prime oppurtunity two different dates to show us what they were made of and failed both times.

Do you really want an organization who is controlled by the dictator!!!!

Here is a classic: Delle would not even discuss any issues with a Laid off Mechanic from United Airlines! He said I do not have the time and you will need to contact your local. Just so happens the local has been dissolved!!!!

Pretty Disappointing.

HAR HAR HARDEE HAR HAR

RICK YOU'RE A RIOT, A REGULAR RIOT! :down:

 

[Checking it Out]

Amfa showed true colors today!!!

The TWU came to debate with;

Members from the TWU

Members from Horizon

Members from United

Members from Northwest

Members from the TWU International

Members from the AFL-CIO

Members from The Rank and File

Delle refused to debate any of them. Would not allow over 200 strong to attend.

Amfa turned away more members that those in attendance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amfa had members from;

The East to the West Coast attend,

Amfa National Members

Unelected members

Kids

Wives

Oh Yes! they even had local organizers attend!!!!

I do have to give them credit, they did allow a few Members to attend, as long as they did not have on TWU items.


Here was a prime oppurtunity two different dates to show us what they were made of and failed both times.

Do you really want an organization who is controlled by the dictator!!!!

Here is a classic: Delle would not even discuss any issues with a Laid off Mechanic from United Airlines! He said I do not have the time and you will need to contact your local. Just so happens the local has been dissolved!!!!

Pretty Disappointing.

 

[TWU informer]

Here is the scoop.

The TWU "professionals" with the flatbed trailer carrying a coffin and tombstones pulled up, and they stood outside shouting some chant.

With picket signs in hand, they attempted to bring their "protest" inside the building. The Security was blocking the access NOT AMFA. They were attempting to bring a protest and pickets into the building, not a debate, or questions.

Security was informed that everyone would be allowed in, but without pickets, and they had to remain peaceful. Kevin Hammack at that point announced that "nobody is going in the building". And now here we are watching them claim they are the victims.

All I can say is what an embarrasment it is to have grown men, claiming to be professional aircraft mechanics out in the street with a flatbed trailer, carrying around a coffin in public, screaming and yelling, while wearing the logo of our current union. This confirms that what we talked about inside is correct and it is important that we succeed to remove such atrocious childhood behavior. TWU had no intention of peacefully particpating today.

I will get you some pictures uploaded shortly, and I will publicy show your so-called professionalism. As shameful as the pictures are, I will post them to dispute your lies.

There was a TWU Shop Steward wearing a "United Stated Marine Corp" jacket that went to the microphone and nearly broke into tears while apologizing to the crowd for the conduct of his TWU brothers outside the Brady.

I will get you some audio/video clips of this event as soon as possible. Just give me a little time.

 

[Checking it Out]

Delle had several to choose from and Kevin Hammack who was selected by a group of TWU members to debate Delle and his followers. Delle was scarrrrred to debate a Mechanic!!!! That simple!!!!! Delle was afraid to debate his own Members!!!!!! It is obvious he is Scarrrrrred of his own members!!!!!!!!!!! You need to think serious about this!!!!!!

AA management will eat him up and spit him out with this type of stupidity!!!!!

 

[Checking it Out]

Dave please tell us why delle refused to debate?

Dave please tell us what delle told the members when they requested a debate?

Tell the whole story, You will edit, distort and continue to give half-truths as normal!!!!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

Dave please tell us why delle refused to debate?

Dave please tell us what delle told the members when they requested a debate?

Tell the whole story, You will edit, distort and continue to give half-truths as normal!!!!!!!

I cannot anwer this, because I wasn't involved in the conversation.

Were you?

 

[Raptor]

So now we hear the rest of the story CIO, you really are a pathetic liar, what are you going to do when the Video and the pictures come out, then the truth will come out, Many Many cards will come from this, I am printing your lieing posts to have available when the pictures and the Video come out, be looking for this to be spread around the base, I really hope that you are in some of these pictures and Video, keep on lieing Rick as we can and will use your posts against you.
along with the Video and pictures.

Rick you and your group are going to feel very embarrassed when the video of you and your groups behavior is spread around at the base.
better start thinking about damage control.

Damn I can't stand pathalogical Liars.

Rick please get some help man, you are really sick dude. :cold:

Your Done man

 

[Cooper]

didn't get to go to the meeting but I would be very interested in seeing this video footage of the twu disgusting behavior. :angry:

If it is a bad as it sounds the twu is in big trouble when the membership see's it.

 

[Checking it Out]

Please feel free to pass out the video showing us not being allowed in.

At the same time explain why we were denied the oppurtunity to debate?

 

[twuer]

I was inside most of the time and did not hear about any trouble outside, so I do not know if you are telling me the truth or not, and you are right most supporters did not show up at your meeting due to lack of interest but atleast you had a peacefull meeting with no one outside chanting and carrying on, everyone on the panel was an officer, there were no Rank and File on the panel.
remember the debate was suppose to be Leaders not Rank and File, so AMFA Leaders were on the panel.

Please answer my question and be truthfull, you say you were not allowed to come in, who told you and your group that they could not come in, PLEASE do not lie.

I really was expecting every single person in your group to come inside, we were even discussing as to where we thought your group might sit inside, we figured that you guys would probably sit in the back somewhere as a group.

Every individual is just that an individual would you have us judge the TWU by Randy Mcdonalds actions, I think not, as for Ken's letter I don't personally have a problem with it, but that is just my individual opinion.

Ken is intitled to his opinion just as you are.

Raptor,

I will answer you as honest as I know how. The TWU supporters were met at the door by security and security told them they were not allowed in. I made a statement earlier that Dave was there at the door but I will have to retract that because that is who I thought I saw from the back. (Sorry Dave!) I do not know who told security that. Delle himself said he would not debate us. I'm guessing the order came from the top. We wanted to come in as a group united and they wouldn't let us do that.

We did have every right to demonstrate in that manner. You have to remember you guys are on our turf not the other way around. And despite what numbers you hear AMFA does not have the majority here in Tulsa. We came as a group and left as a group.

(Raptor) - Every individual is just that an individual would you have us judge the TWU by Randy Mcdonalds actions, I think not

Raptor, I appreciate your opinion here but maybe you are talking to the wrong guy when you say these things. You and ohter AMFA supporters have been judging Jim Little, Sonny Hall and even the officers of our local for months now. Two wrongs don't make a right. We are in a tough fight. You and I are just on opposite sides. But I don't play dirty like a lot of folks do on these boards. I just don't think that it is necessary. I do kid a lot and poke fun but I don't claim to be better than anyone else or know all the answers and certanly don't call names or make hurtful, personal attacks. Some on these boards do. And I guess that's their right.

And about Ken's letter. . .you made a comment to me like I had commented on his letter to Arpey but that was someone else. Although since you brought it up I don't think it was a very smart move or thought out very well. Again, just my opinion.

So when do you think the next "debate" will take place???

Also, if you don't mind, I would like to know, what kind of seniority do you have?

 

[TWU informer]

Drum Roll Please! Here they are...ALL 200 of them!

Ladies and Gentlemen, here is how your TWU Professional Aircraft Mechanics displayed themselves in public and in the media today in Tulsa.

I am ashamed to be associated with these individuals. I am ashamed to publish these pictures in public.

I am sorry to those true professionals in the industry that this display must be made public to prove our point about the need for change.

And they even used the Flag of The United States of America while excercising their freedom to make fools of us all.

And if you look real close, you will see this display sanctioned and attended by the elected officers of the TWU Local 514.

QUESTION: Does this look like a group that came to debate to any of you out there?

Simply use your brain and apply logic.

Then ask yourself, who are the liars here?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

Again, sorry to those of you who are true professionals out there.

 

[twuer]

Here is the scoop.

The TWU "professionals" with the flatbed trailer carrying a coffin and tombstones pulled up, and they stood outside shouting some chant.

With picket signs in hand, they attempted to bring their "protest" inside the building. The Security was blocking the access NOT AMFA. They were attempting to bring a protest and pickets into the building, not a debate, or questions.

Security was informed that everyone would be allowed in, but without pickets, and they had to remain peaceful. Kevin Hammack at that point announced that "nobody is going in the building". And now here we are watching them claim they are the victims.

All I can say is what an embarrasment it is to have grown men, claiming to be professional aircraft mechanics out in the street with a flatbed trailer, carrying around a coffin in public, screaming and yelling, while wearing the logo of our current union. This confirms that what we talked about inside is correct and it is important that we succeed to remove such atrocious childhood behavior. TWU had no intention of peacefully particpating today.

I will get you some pictures uploaded shortly, and I will publicy show your so-called professionalism. As shameful as the pictures are, I will post them to dispute your lies.

There was a TWU Shop Steward wearing a "United Stated Marine Corp" jacket that went to the microphone and nearly broke into tears while apologizing to the crowd for the conduct of his TWU brothers outside the Brady.

I will get you some audio/video clips of this event as soon as possible. Just give me a little time.

We had a peaceful demonstration. You do know that word don't you Informer? Like I said to Raptor (I think) you guys are on our turf and we were there to let you know we didn't like it. We were turned away because we were not welcome. Not for our picket signs. That's quite the cop-out excuse.

As for Hammack's comment, what did you say he said, "nobody is going in the building", I would say you took that out of context. He said that because they told him they weren't letting us in. Thus, nobody is going in the building. Duh!! That's not too hard to figure out.

I don't feel a bit of embarrassment for what went on this morning. Delle didn't want to hear what the members had to say so he refused our entry. And you have the nerve to bring up "childhood behavior". Let me ask you this Informer. Does Delle know all of the childhood behavior that you have exhibited just on this site alone??? Does Delle know that Gary and Dan came out and wanted to start something with the TWU supporters, walking to thier side of the street, calling them punks, I believe? Of course not. Oh, and do you have video of that?? No?? How convenient! You don't tell both sides of the story do you Informer? Wonder why that is??

I have seen pictures and have seen the footage on the news and witnessed the whole thing. We came out there to get in. Don't you think we would have if we were allowed? We came as a group, were going in as a group, weren't allowed in as a group so we left as a group. Only makes sense. . .