Hotdogs And Delle

[Bob Owens]

[It is indicative to the lies and spins that amfa tells. . .

For example. . .
they said 2800 laid off from NWA. . .when it was actually 4800!


When did they say 4800 mechanics were laid off? From what I read they said 4800 Ground Workers at NWA were laid off. Ground workers include everyone except the flight crew does it not?

Delle and Wildermouth telling the NWA folks that they "will win the Force majeure case and you will get your jobs back". . .when it was actually a case they knew they couldn't win and was lost with the very first witness Seham put up!!


Is that any different than the TWU saying that Gore, or Gephart is going to be the next President? Or how about this: Little stating that we will not open up our contract and give concesions "Been there, done that", or Little saying that we will have a revote, or the TWU telling members that they have the right to vote on their contracts and then telling the courts that they dont? We could go on and on. Whereas the TWU intentionally decieves the AMFA states that they are committed to win.

when you Bob took an oath of office and swore to uphold the constitution of the TWU. . .when actually you had no intention of doing so!!



I did uphold the Constitution. Where does it say that I should support the International efforts to sell out the members so they could continue to collect two paychecks, one from the union and one from the company? Try actually reading it. Pay particular attention to article II (B). Nowhere in that Constitution does it give the International the authority to seek lower wages in exchange for more dues paying members.

when you claim that amfa is the most democratic union. . .when actually Local 33 had to sue Delle after he called a constitutional referendum NULL & VOID!!


Do you really want to compare the two unions court records? The fact is that "at the end of the day" Delle is held accountable by the members. In the end Democracy prevails in the AMFA whereas in the TWU it never sees the light of day. Tell us when the members get to cast their vote for ANY International officer. Tell us how the TWU argued that we do not have the right to vote for our contracts. Tell us how Democratic the TWU is.

The fact is that Local 33 sued the AMFA because they disagreed with what Delle did, yet they are still in office. Local 562 sued the TWU International and a month later the International removes its President and Treasurer on trumped up charges. But you prefer not to see the difference here do you?


when they printed "everyone is welcome" on the bottom of their flier for the Brady Theatre. . .when actually amfa refused to let people in!!

I did not see the flier, who was it addressed to? Tell us why Local 514 refused to allow fellow TWA/AA members into Local 514 meetings. We are brothers are we not?



And that's just the tip of the amfa iceburg! Would you like to see any more?

Yea sure, fire away. But, will you reciprocate with some answers to our questions?


Now don't go changing the subject and turn this around just respond to the comments made (if you can). . .

Once again I've addressed your questions. I've done so, even answering your personal attacks that you make from behind your alias. Is this what you think our brothers and sisters should accept? None of the pro-TWU supprorters here is willing to be identified with the comments they make. That alone should tell you what kind of an organization the TWU is-one that is run by self serving cowards. When will you address my questions? Dont you feel this has been a little one sided? I've answered nearly every question that you have asked me yet you avoid answering just about anything that I've asked you. What do you have to hide? The Truth that the TWU has done a lousy job for us for over 20 years?

 

[NyQuill]

I did uphold the Constitution.

Bob...to coin favorite phrase of Dennis Sanderson's..."you are a common liar!"

 

[Hopeful]

Hey NYQUILL:

I'll admit I use an alias in this forum.

At least Bob Owens uses his name. What about you?
He has the balls to express his opinions using his real name. What about you?

 

[NyQuill]

Now I know why your name is hopeful...you do the homework..I've stated my name before...HAHAHAHA

 

[twuer]

Hey Bob. . .you forgot these!!

*when Delle claimed he had people in the Braniff BK procedings. . .when actually the settlement documents show all the bargaining agents signatures but no amfa!!

*when amfa claims they want to debate and have actually had the oppurtunity at least 3 times. . . when actually on Sept 12, amfa kicked TWU professionals out of the meeting, on Jan 15, TWU opened the debate to ALL and amfa chose to stand in the hallway and not come in and on Jan 17, Delle refused to debate the membership at the Brady Theatre!!

The main point to my post was that amfa is not the all perfect union that you are claiming it is (and don't even say you and the other amfa supporters are not because you would be lying!!). You are quick to point out the TWU's faults but not amfa's. Why is that?? I can tell you why that is. . .because you are trying to get as many cards as you can signed for amfa and are not telling the whole story of amfa. It's called deception Bob.

 

[TonyB]

HOW'S THE IAM CARD DRIVE GOING AT NWA OR UAL??

 

[Bob Owens]

When a mechanic has paid his/her dues for years working on the heavy maintenance lines doing all the drudge work that is required, he or she should be able to enjoy their final years AND be able to TRANSFER to a physically less demanding but equally important shop job. He or she should be able to transfer to one of those shops when bad health has hit their bodies.

But, but, if we have that how could the TWU make any money selling LTD and STD?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob...to coin favorite phrase of Dennis Sanderson's..."you are a common liar!"

Oh really? And you have proof?

 

[Bob Owens]

As I recall, in the restructuring agreement all Title II folks were protected, NOONE was laid off in Title II!!
TWU people still clean and maintain the terminals and hangars.

True enough, OSMs now perform some of the functions that had been performed by licensed mechanics in the past. With that said, in 1995 the industry, including AA, were gaining scope changes throughout the industry and farming out most all of the work that is now performed in-house by OSMs. it returned people to work and two: it helped the company grow and gave them what it considered to be job security and three: kept the work in house.
As far as allowing that work to be done by lower paid mechanics you should check amfa represented airlines where the senior mechanics don't have the ability to bump into those shops because they do not exist, ie: those jobs are all farmed-out. If this is amfa's way of relieving the requirement to represent all mechanics I prefer the TWU's method.

It's not about dues like you amfa boys claim, it's about making sure ALL people have an oppurtunity to make a living wage. The TWU doesn't just protect the ones they feel are worthy of union representation the way amfa does. Everyone is equally important.

Their bargaining committee chose to reach their restructruing requirements differently than others but the bottom line is once again NOONE in Title II was laid off.


Funny, I thought up until now you insisted they were negotiations.


The agreement in '95 returned ALL FURLOUGHED EMPLOYEES in TUL and AFW and the membership voted to accept the proposed agreement because it did at least 3 things. . .one:

So it was not the booming economy, record load factors, high ticket prices and record profits that brought them back? It was the sell out TWU contract? Well everyone was hiring in 95, what brought all those employees back? Talk about revisionist history! Funny how it , according to you, was the TWU contract that created the shortage of mechanics where the company had to raise the starting wage just to get people in the door. Thats right the TWU negotiated started wage was insufficient, they knew when they signed the contract that the starting wage was a sick joke so the TWU, unlike any other union I evber heard of put in "Flex starting rates, when the company, at ITS SOLE discretion could raise, or lower the starting wage to market rates. Well if the best this union can do is Market rates then why should we pay them anything? The market determines the rate, not our Union strength. You may be right if you claimed that it was the TWU contract that made AA the most profitable carrier out there years on end, as our pay continued to decline and while the rest of the economy was booming we had to go out and get second jobs to make ends meet. You must think that nobody remembers what went on from 1995 to 2001!

I'd venture to say that a great majority of the amfa supporters employed today either voted yes for that contract or hired in under it.

And why would you say that? If I recall it only passed by 77 votes and the TWU put forth false information regarding an early out package. I'd venture to say that most of those who are still here, who were looking at 6% over six years voted no. Id also venture to say that most of those who voted yes are gone.

It's not about dues like you amfa boys claim, it's about making sure ALL people have an oppurtunity to make a living wage. The TWU doesn't just protect the ones they feel are worthy of union representation the way amfa does. Everyone is equally important.

If its not all about dues then why didnt the TWU suggest a deeper percentage cut against our hourly pay instead of talking away all our benifits? They went after the benifits because it did not affect the dues. This way the TWU could maximize the cuts while minimizing their lost dues revenue. Please tell us how these same guys who #### about the members as they collect their six figure salaries care about the members-Please! Its more like "everyone is equally unimportant.

 

[Bob Owens]

Hey Bob. . .you forgot these!!

*when Delle claimed he had people in the Braniff BK procedings. . .when actually the settlement documents show all the bargaining agents signatures but no amfa!!

*when amfa claims they want to debate and have actually had the oppurtunity at least 3 times. . . when actually on Sept 12, amfa kicked TWU professionals out of the meeting, on Jan 15, TWU opened the debate to ALL and amfa chose to stand in the hallway and not come in and on Jan 17, Delle refused to debate the membership at the Brady Theatre!!

The main point to my post was that amfa is not the all perfect union that you are claiming it is (and don't even say you and the other amfa supporters are not because you would be lying!!). You are quick to point out the TWU's faults but not amfa's. Why is that?? I can tell you why that is. . .because you are trying to get as many cards as you can signed for amfa and are not telling the whole story of amfa. It's called deception Bob.

I didnt forget. Where is the question?

You still have not shown me the same courtesy that I've shown you.

If you want a comment here;

As far as Branniff. I did not work there, but I know someone who did and that person was pleased with the representation she got there and has always voiced a pro-AMFA opinion. If what you say is true, then why do ex-AMFA members from Branniff still rave about it? On the other hand I also work with many ex-Pan Am workers who all, to a man, say that the TWU sucks and they all want AMFA.

I saw the video on the Sept 12 meeting. The room was crowded with people standing in the back. They said that they only wanted those from the affected title groups there as it was an informational meeting. I saw and recognized some of those there including Art Luby and the Zebco lady. I saw nothing unreasonable about the request, I saw them address every question, some obviuosly written by someone other than the person reading it, due to their difficulty reading it, in a professional manner. As I understand it,the meeting was promoted as an informational meeting for potential members, not a debate between Delle and Art Luby or the Zebcxo lady. Since many of those brought by the TWU were not potential members what was their reason for being there other than to disturb the meeting?

My understanding of the Jan 15 "debate" was that the panel was only open to associate AMFA members, employees of AA. While the TWU panel was to be made up of TWU officers. As such, its absurd to think that they could address specific questions if they related to what was happening at NWA,Alaska, UAL, SWA or any other carrier any more than one of our Local Presidents could answer specific details about SWA F/A negotiations, the Vegas Card dealers contract, or TWU Local 234's lawsuit against the International.

As far as Jan 17, the TWU made it known that they were declining the offer to debate. I was not there so I can not make any further comment on that.

Once again you do me a disservice, putting words in my mouth. Its bad enough how you childishly complain when every single point that you make is not addressed while you completely avoid sticky topics altogether but dont say that I've claimed something when I have not. In fact I've stated numerous times that AMFA is not perfect, and for a coward such as yourself who hides behind an alias to insist that if I deny this it makes me a liar is even more hypicritical.

Deception is claiming that the TWU got everyone their jobs back in 1995, when in fact it was the recovering economy.

Deception is sending out a biased "survey" then using that as a basis to sell a six year concessionary contract.

Deception is pushing through a six year concessionary contract while claiming that we dont have to worry because we have a "Me too" clause with the pilots.

Deception is saying "I have to use the restroom" then slipping out a back door to avoid the members questions.

You dont have to explain to me what deception is. You forget that I've been a TWU member for over 17 years. I've been the victim of deception for over 17 years. Have you ever asked me what the faults are of AMFA? NO. Do you post what we all know are the faults of the TWU, or do you lie and twist the truth? You claim that I should post AMFA's faults, well I'm sure that at one time or another I have. Are you willing to do the same about the TWU? You wont even use your real name! Do you know what an alias is? Its a deception. Its no small coincidence either that every single TWU supporter on the forum, despite the fact that they are the body in control and do not have to worry about reprisals from the company/union, choose to post under an alias. None of you have enough conviction to stand behind a word you write. You have some nerve making such accusations about me!

 

[Checking it Out]

Word has it the Delle day! was a complete failure! Delle was dictating to the amfa followers and all you could hear wasYes! Yes! Master Delle! What ever you say! The word is that Delle has a vendetta against local 514 and is willing to spend hundreds of thousand of dollars and sacrafice NWA in order to lash out at the Local for the successful job we have done at educating the membership about the pitfalls of amfa! It's a shame the organizers are so blind they can not see they are being used as puppets for Delles pleasures!!!!!

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

Word has it the Delle day! was a complete failure! Delle was dictating to the amfa followers and all you could hear wasYes! Yes! Master Delle! What ever you say! The word is that Delle has a vendetta against local 514 and is willing to spend hundreds of thousand of dollars and sacrafice NWA in order to lash out at the Local for the successful job we have done at educating the membership about the pitfalls of amfa! It's a shame the organizers are so blind they can not see they are being used as puppets for Delles pleasures!!!!!

What's wrong cio, the twu run out of UB pay?? Is that why the twu international wantabes didn't show?? Yes it is true. You will have to go back to work soon. Fac Maint?? Automotive maybe??
What are you going to do when the rats start getting their feet wet and they jump ship?? As the days go by the more pathetic you people become. I can't wait to see the twu hit the door!!!!!!!

AMFA...............our only other option to the twu!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Oldweirdharold]

CIO; quote---> "Word has it the Delle day! was a complete failure! Delle was dictating to the amfa"

Isn't it sad when a grown person has to operate on second hand information such as the pathetic example set forth by the big CIO??

Bob Owens brought up an excellent point when he observed that all the TWU supporters here hide using fake names or aliases.. Why would a man or woman be ashamed to reveal their identity if they believe in their union?? Why are you not TWU proud??

I would guess several hundred people showed up today Sat for the open house as the joint was jumpin from 9am and still goin when I left after 4pm.. This would have been an excellent opportunity for a person to get close to Delle and ask him anything as he was accessible along with Kevin most of the time, I chatted with both men for awhile..

Has anyone else noticed when our TWU brothers have a chance to confront the AMFA leaders head on they are always strangely absent or otherwise occupied??

CIO, you poor thing you missed another chance to show your superior skills and confront your enemy to his face..

Word has it???? If I had to go on second hand information, rumor and innuendo as you choose to do I'd probably be as miserable and frightened as you appear..

The dogs, hamburgers,pizza, drinks and company were great, but the real high point was being part of something alive and growing instead of being part of a dead and dying organization stuck in the last century..

CIO I am sure the buggy whip manufacturers felt the same way you do as they watched the automobile come on the scene.. :blink:

Jim Anderson 4D associate member local 12 AMFA

 

[Buck]

The only thing that keeps people from actually being themselves and doing what they really want to do is fear.

Fear of the future, fear of what their co-workers might think or say and fear of who the might really be.


What are you afraid of CIO?

 

[Bob Owens]

Word has it the Delle day! was a complete failure! Delle was dictating to the amfa followers and all you could hear wasYes! Yes! Master Delle! What ever you say! The word is that Delle has a vendetta against local 514 and is willing to spend hundreds of thousand of dollars and sacrafice NWA in order to lash out at the Local for the successful job we have done at educating the membership about the pitfalls of amfa! It's a shame the organizers are so blind they can not see they are being used as puppets for Delles pleasures!!!!!

CIO;

Your posts are getting downright pathetic.

Its almost embarrassing to read what you write. Get a grip man! Are you actually believing all the lies you tell or are you that terrified at having to return to the floor?