I'm tired of hearing "they held a gun to our heads", well if they have it shouldn't you expect that they will use it? Hold one to theirs!!!! If AA 'had let" TWA go C-7 then they would have had to bid against any and all comers for those assets. They didn't want C-7 either. They threatened, the IAM folded and you guys have been upset that after your union gave away your contractual rights the TWU did not honor them anyway. If you guys had said NO they would have had to bargain, maybe in exchange for honoring your LPPs the IAM would have had to eat what they were owed on leased engines or pension payments but to say they had no choice because AA held a gun to your heads then blaming the TWU for not honoring what you gave away is pathetic. Why should we honor a deal your union agreed to give away? The guys at OZARK never agreed to give away their LPPs and TWA had no choice but to honor it, or no deal, the IAM was more interested in getting the dues than saying NO to allowing them to carry their seniority. We never wanted AA to buy TWA, so why should we have honored agreements your Union was not willing to fight for? Thats twelve years ago, enough, let it go already, besides aren't you retired?
Let The Games Begin!
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I'll keep posting it eventually enough other people will see what a hypocrite you are defending these lunatics and then acknowledging they are corrupt and don't act in the interests of the membership. Did Buffy fly home to Ohio on the IAM Lear for Thanksgiving? Afterall it wouldn't be feasible or viable for him to fly commercially.
Josh
Josh
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Bob, that's your take on it, and there are some things there that are true, but please don't try and tell us what we should have done! We went through it, you didn't! We were screwed from both ends, and "THAT" is the reality of it!Bob Owens said:
Well if you are going to tell us what we should have done-grant you full seniority, then you should not object when we tell you what you should have done. Fight for it. I dont deny you were screwed from both ends, but you weren't the only workers that ever got screwed in this industry and I think we have gone over that many times before.MCI transplant said:
Bob I don't think you are a big fan of Roach either, are you? He sold out the USAIR employees and encouraged them to roll over and begin the concessions train as you said earlier. 700 refuses to answer this question, he obviously believes Roach screwed everyone so he should let everyone know.Bob Owens said:
Josh
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So, let's just say that from someone who has seen how both the IAM, and TWU, operates, if I had to make a choose on Unions, it would be the-------- AMFA!!!!! But than again, I'm not the one to make that choose!
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And since you brought up Ozark, let me point out that TWA dovetailed them in on our seniority list! But Ozark wasn't in bankruptcy at the time, and didn't face Chapt.7! And they weren't threatened by TWA to surrender their LPP's like AA threatened us! So your talking apples and oranges. And yes, I agree, we've been over this too many times!Bob Owens said:
This is off topic and I am sorry but I do have to interject when Buffy came to MSP during our AMFA/IAM fight I have to laugh a bunch of NW mechanics ran out and put a bunch of AMFA stickers all over Buffys jet. Classic. Wish I had a pic of it.737823 said:
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MCI transplant said:
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What is really ironic Bob, is that if it wasn't for the actions of the TWU/AA, the McCaskill-Bond Amendment would never had been passed! And you all, (TWU) might have tried do to US, what the TWU did to TWA!---- Sad, but true!
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Thank you Bob.
And to Rick Penfial's employee:
And once again the IAM didnt give concessions at US till US filed chapter 11 and we were forced to negotiate in the first chapter 11 which was 2002 and 2003 and in 2004/2005 case we never reached an agreement and had the CBA abrogated.
Dont let the facts get in your way mr JP Morgan.
And to Rick Penfial's employee:
And once again the IAM didnt give concessions at US till US filed chapter 11 and we were forced to negotiate in the first chapter 11 which was 2002 and 2003 and in 2004/2005 case we never reached an agreement and had the CBA abrogated.
Dont let the facts get in your way mr JP Morgan.
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Kev doesn't speak for 80,000 DL employees nor is there any basis to believe that what he says is representative at all and actually quite a few reasons to believe it is not. He is free to have his opinions and he might actually be knowledgeable of the opinions of his peers in his immediate city and friends elsewhere but he is nowhere close to being a spokesman for his work group or DL employees as a whole. And he has never claimed he was.
DL employees speak with mgmt. directly and they haven't engaged any intermediary source, including and perhaps esp. Kev.
IF DL employees don't believe DL's direct employee-mgmt. process works, they have had more than enough to ask for labor representation but they have not done so.
Labor strife and lack of any real benefit from unions is precisely why B6 and DL people EN MASSE have consistently hung out the "not buying" sign.
You and others, including Kev, can't get on here and tell us all of the faults of the labor movement and then be the least bit surprised that the movement is shrinking. The DL-NW merger eliminated 30,000 union members and those positions are no closer to being replaced that the day the final legal challenge was settled.
This site is the best antidote against further unionization in the airline industry.
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