AA to pay $14 million in first quarter AIP bonuses

[Hopeful]

Don't know what they have operationally.

Different management ethic maybe?



http://www.star-telegram.com/business/colu...rman/index.html

 

[eolesen]

Perhaps. You're also dealing with a company half AMR's age. Let's see how they compare when WN is 80 years old and has that much labor relations history. They've yet to go thru a period of contraction, and make no mistake, there's only one direction to go when you get to be their size.

Since you're such a fan of Mitch's opinions, I suppose you also agree with his suggestions to get rid of the pension?

http://www.star-telegram.com/business/colu...ry/1380968.html

 

[Hopeful]

I beat you to it..I posted that topic already.

 

[Hopeful]

Perhaps. You're also dealing with a company half AMR's age. Let's see how they compare when WN is 80 years old and has that much labor relations history. They've yet to go thru a period of contraction, and make no mistake, there's only one direction to go when you get to be their size.

So it's ok to compare worker salaries and benefits and work rules to those of SWA, but when it comes to executive compensation, you seem to not have the same criticism.
And the trouble with trusting AA on the pension issue, do you really expect us to give up or pension for the ever-so-generous 5% match on a 401k?


Maybe you see it that executives don't get a traditional pension, but when they separate from the AA, they leave with millions up front......Who needs a pension when you get to leave a company with millions?

 

[eolesen]

I'm saying it's not as easy as saying "me, too!" everytime you see someone making more than you. Y'all are the ones who want WN's wages. But you want the AA pension and workrules to go along with it.

Personally, I'd have no problems working for WN's pay scale, but I wouldn't want their insurance.

 

[Hopeful]

I'm saying it's not as easy as saying "me, too!" everytime you see someone making more than you. Y'all are the ones who want WN's wages. But you want the AA pension and workrules to go along with it.

Personally, I'd have no problems working for WN's pay scale, but I wouldn't want their insurance.

Nothing wrong with wanting more. I have never made an issue of what WN mechanics make. If it comes up, of course I'll say I'd like their wages. But as I have always stated here, up until the concessionary raping, I gave a rat's rear end what executives earned. Having said that, I could give a rat's rear end what a mechanic at another airline earned.

Do you recall any of these forums existing BEFORE employees were screwed? If so, do you recall having heated arguments over corporate greed? I don't....
No one cared until we were force fed concessions under a veiled bankruptcy threat where our union feared the loss of union dues.

Every airline has their own structure and their own issues. What separates AMR from the pack is that they've had this cozy relationship with the TWU and we were bamboozled into believing everyone from the top on down would share the pain and the gain.

It seems the pain part was more on the workers side than on the executive side. And it seems that the gain part was more exclusive to the executive side.

And please spare me the $200 AIP payout and the $800 for that matter.

I lost $20,000 a year for six years now and all I received in return was $.44 an hour for five years in return. And you tell me I'm beating a dead horse?

People like you tell us to move on and look forward to make AA profitable....Are you kidding me? AA exemplifies corporate greed and subscribe to the "we're better than them" philosophy because AA needs to pay executives in order to keep the "key" talent, while these same big shots tell us if we don't like it we can quit.


I'm sorry, eric. I am closer to retirement than young enough to change careers.
I've watched this industry decimate workers starting with the PATCO controllers by Reagan.
I've watched management destroy once great airline jobs when they let bean counters run the airlines rather than "airline" people.
Please show me how executives fared worse than the average worker......

And there are alot of people like me in this company with poor morale and not willing to do anything more for this company.

They have no desire to negotiate in good faith. Until then, I will do my best to negatively affect AA's performance with each flight I work. If enough passengers get pissed at AA, so be it.

 

[The Goose]

Nothing wrong with wanting more. I have never made an issue of what WN mechanics make. If it comes up, of course I'll say I'd like their wages. But as I have always stated here, up until the concessionary raping, I gave a rat's rear end what executives earned. Having said that, I could give a rat's rear end what a mechanic at another airline earned.

Do you recall any of these forums existing BEFORE employees were screwed? If so, do you recall having heated arguments over corporate greed? I don't....
No one cared until we were force fed concessions under a veiled bankruptcy threat where our union feared the loss of union dues.

Every airline has their own structure and their own issues. What separates AMR from the pack is that they've had this cozy relationship with the TWU and we were bamboozled into believing everyone from the top on down would share the pain and the gain.

It seems the pain part was more on the workers side than on the executive side. And it seems that the gain part was more exclusive to the executive side.

And please spare me the $200 AIP payout and the $800 for that matter.

I lost $20,000 a year for six years now and all I received in return was $.44 an hour for five years in return. And you tell me I'm beating a dead horse?

People like you tell us to move on and look forward to make AA profitable....Are you kidding me? AA exemplifies corporate greed and subscribe to the "we're better than them" philosophy because AA needs to pay executives in order to keep the "key" talent, while these same big shots tell us if we don't like it we can quit.


I'm sorry, eric. I am closer to retirement than young enough to change careers.
I've watched this industry decimate workers starting with the PATCO controllers by Reagan.
I've watched management destroy once great airline jobs when they let bean counters run the airlines rather than "airline" people.
Please show me how executives fared worse than the average worker......

And there are alot of people like me in this company with poor morale and not willing to do anything more for this company.

They have no desire to negotiate in good faith. Until then, I will do my best to negatively affect AA's performance with each flight I work. If enough passengers get pissed at AA, so be it.

Mr. Hopeful:

Re: management-type tactics:

Frugal Flyer and Eoleson engage in these tactics masterfully - allow me to point out the length of your very defensive post.

You needn't defend yourself and your feelings to people who are only worthy of ignoring.

 

[aafsc]

I'm saying it's not as easy as saying "me, too!" everytime you see someone making more than you. Y'all are the ones who want WN's wages. But you want the AA pension and workrules to go along with it.

Personally, I'd have no problems working for WN's pay scale, but I wouldn't want their insurance.

Or their scope clauses as they pertain to aircraft maintenance.

 

[eolesen]

Do you recall any of these forums existing BEFORE employees were screwed? If so, do you recall having heated arguments over corporate greed? I don't....
No one cared until we were force fed concessions under a veiled bankruptcy threat where our union feared the loss of union dues.

How quickly we all forget life before 2003......

There was a previous incarnation of USAviation, but I don't think they saved the archives.

Prior to USAv, many of us were over at the Plane Business BB's, which started up in the mid/late 90's and continued into 2002.

Going into the early/mid 90's, a lot of this sort of discussion was going on in Usenet groups like Rec.Travel.Air and Misc.Transport.Air-Industry, Compuserve bulletin boards, and even on private BBS's (please don't make me explain what a BBS is......).

Before the internet, these discussions regularly took place in lunchrooms or bars...

Somehow, they were much more civil when the guy you were arguing with could buy you a beer or a basket of fries and brown gravy.........

 

[Hopeful]

The only site I posted on in those days was THE-MECHANIC.COM.

Basically mechanic issues were discussed and argued.
There was no need to discuss greed in the executive washroom.

What has taken place since 2003 has made this forum a hotbed of arguments about corporate greed and AA's making sure the executives were exempt from the pain.

I'll say it once more......I could care less what an executive earned.......prior to 2003.

 

[eolesen]

Below you can step back in the time machine.... 1993 to be specific, and lo & behold, I find a comparison of Bob Crandall's pay to Herb Kelleher's, and a comparison of flight attendant pay to their industry peers....

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.travel....9a1ebb2498bb23c

 

[Hopeful]

I can only speak for myself...

 

[frontline]

I'm with Hopeful in that I don't care what the execs make, although in my case it's prior and since 2003. I know it is not excessive compared to other industries, so as long as the board of directors regulates it I'm fairly comfortable.

I say that contingent on us getting a new contract, of course. But for once I can't really blame the execs as it was TWU that hesitated locking in the two-year. As things have gotten worse I think that has proven to be a mistake.

 

[eolesen]

If you think not locking in the two year deal was bad, hop over to the WN forum. Their pilots just turned down a TA which gave them fairly decent raises....

 

[Hackman]

I'm with Hopeful in that I don't care what the execs make, although in my case it's prior and since 2003. I know it is not excessive compared to other industries, so as long as the board of directors regulates it I'm fairly comfortable.

I say that contingent on us getting a new contract, of course. But for once I can't really blame the execs as it was TWU that hesitated locking in the two-year. As things have gotten worse I think that has proven to be a mistake.

You might not care what the executives make, but most on the other side of the house do when the "Shared Sacrifice" coin is played.

Let me ask you Flatline, do you know what was offered by the beloved company in the two year extension of the industry leading twu concessions you are so willing to accept?

This should be intresting....