IAM WINS!

[swamt]

http://www.iamdl142.org/Bulletins/2013/USA_2013-46.pdf

Go to this page and scroll down, full copies of the Alliance agreement are online.

And like I said, I talked to the man who wrote the alliance, and like I said, they will be filing with the NMB to conduct the election, the IAM nor the TWU doesnt have the power to change the certification and put it from the IAM and TWU to the Alliance, why dont you ask him that?

And the man who wrote the Alliance is a good friend of mine, I have known him for over 20 years and is one of my mentors.

He wouldnt lie to me, nor would this man lie to the members.


[/color]

http://www.iamdl142.org/Bulletins/2013/TWU/Mechanic%20and%20Related%20Association%20Agreement.pdf

700 were done. I did what every mechanic at US and AA should have done, my own homework. I'm not even a mechanic for either. You can post all the links you want, I have been directly answered by the NMB themselves. You are still going by what the IAM and TWU are telling you and they are lies. I don't give 2 shites that "you talked to the man that wrote the alliance". You are still being vague with your post. The new alliance can file for the NMB to conduct an election all they want to. As you can see from the NMB "THEY DO NOT HANDLE SUCH ELECTIONS" Again, they can file for it all they want to, it's not going to be handled by the NMB in it's current status form as you and the IAM/TWU are stating period. End of story.

Wow, I knew you were going to still go with what you are being told. Do your own homework 700, I encourage you to. E-mail Don West at [email protected] and ask him yourself. Or call him at 1-202-692-5050 leave message and he will return your call the same day usually every time. Go ahead. Be proactive, get involved and "PROVE ME WRONG"

Now you are posting this; "And the man who wrote the Alliance is a good friend of mine, I have known him for over 20 years and is one of my mentors." Really? You had to go to the mentor gimmick? You are looking desperate. The IAM/TWU will do and say anything to keep both memberships at US and AA, including scare tactics of non-union if they do not vote for the alliance that they are forced to vote for or be non-union. Pathetic man just pathetic. 700 your credit for information just went down the toilet if you don't get this verified. By all means do not believe me and contact the NMB yourselves, everyone. Or just keep on believing the IAM and TWU and what they tell you is true, and once it happens you guys will be saying "how they do that?" The ball is in your court, what you choose to do with it is up to you...

 

[700UW]

Its not desperate its the truth.

And like I said, neither the IAM nor the TWU can transfer their respective certifications to the alliance, that has to be accomplished by the NMB.

 

[swamt]

Its not desperate its the truth.

And like I said, neither the IAM nor the TWU can transfer their respective certifications to the alliance, that has to be accomplished by the NMB.

You are wrong and still preaching without proof. Prove to us all that the NMB will handle the election as they just said they will not. Your membership are idiots if they don't look into this themselves and they deserve what they get.

 

[700UW]

Please show me where the IAM and TWU can transfer the certification, create a new R# without the NMB.

 

[swamt]

Please show me where the IAM and TWU can transfer the certification, create a new R# without the NMB.

Not my job to show you how to transfer the cert. It would seem to me that after the TWU/IAM hold their own election (not NMB) and let's say it passed the vote, then maybe the alliance or TWU/IAM would file for a simple cert change and forwarding the election results to them to show the vote results and they might send the new cert. Still has nothing to do with WHO will run the election. Nice try to vaguely post again. Beating around the bushes again I see, just like the "other" option that took 2 weeks to get out of you.

 

[cltrat]

Its not desperate its the truth.

And like I said, neither the IAM nor the TWU can transfer their respective certifications to the alliance, that has to be accomplished by the NMB.

let me get this straight, are you suggesting that your beloved government leadership is lying?

 

[700UW]

Cop out answer, let me go look back and see how the NMB handled the CWA/IBT association.

 

[700UW]

Ah, you make this too easy, read this:

What happens to our union at US Airways during and after the merger?

The National Mediation Board (NMB) certified the Airline Customer Service Employee Association, IBT-CWA (ACSEA or “the Association&rdquo as the representative of US Airways Passenger Service employees during the merger with America West.
That certification remains in effect following the recent US Airways-American Airlines merger announcement and will continue to remain in effect throughout the merger process. In other words, PSAs at US Airways will continue to be part of and represented by ACSEA. Employees at American are currently not represented by a union.

The company says it expects the merger to be approved and occur at the end of the 3rd quarter 2013, or some time in August. The company has also said it expects the operations and work groups to become operationally a single carrier after at least 18 months.

At some point in this process, the combined work groups at AA and US Airways will collectively decide on representation. There are several ways to do this under the Railway Labor Act (RLA) but all of them require a majority of the combined work group to demonstrate support for representation.

And here proof the NMB handles alliance votes between two unions, you made this way too easy, read the determination from the NMB.

http://www.nmb.gov/r...2006/33n031.pdf

This determination addresses the representation consequences of the application filed by the Airline Customer Service Employee Association, IBT-CWA (Association) for the craft or class of Passenger Service Employees, employees of US Airways.

The Board finds that the Association is the certified representative of the entire craft or class of Passenger Service Employees in the single transportation system (R-7085). The Board extinguishes the certifications held by CWA for this craft or class on East (R-6435) and by the IBT on West (R-7011).

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The IAM/TWU alliance is a maneuver designed to deny the combined membership a say in their representation.

This example cited by 700 is the simplest explanation ....

The Board finds that the Association is the certified representative of the entire craft or class of Passenger Service Employees in the single transportation system (R-7085). The Board extinguishes the certifications held by CWA for this craft or class on East (R-6435) and by the IBT on West (R-7011).

What the NMB told swamt is true, they DO NOT have jurisdiction over union alliances or mergers.

What is occurring here is that neither the IAM nor the TWU will file for representation on their own with the NMB. They will file, AS ONE, with the NMB as the IAM/TWU alliance. The memberships at AA and US never having a say on alliance before the vote.

So 700s example would play out as the IAM/TWU alliance is certified, and the individual certifications of the TWU at AA and the IAM at US are extinguished.

Minus any intervenors once an STS investigation is concluded the vote is either the alliance or non-union. The IAM/TWU has denied the membership a say in this alliance, and are counting on them not to vote "no union"

As swamt has said, the memberships at both AA & US need to educate themselves. Specifically with the ability to have another group, chosen by the membership, file as an intervenor.

Again from one of my previous posts ...

Until there is a completed merger, there can't be an investigation into a Single Transportation System or STS.

Until there is a completed NMB STS investigation there cannot be an election.

If/When the NMB STS investigation is complete, AND the merged carriers are considered a STS for the class and craft in question, then there is a window for intervenors to file a showing of interest and be added to the ballot.


If you are satisfied with the IAM/TWU alliance, then simply wait and vote accordingly.

If you are NOT satisfied, then take action and have your choice for representation file as an intervenor when the time comes.

The choice is still yours to make.

 

[swamt]

Ah, you make this too easy, read this:




And here proof the NMB handles alliance votes between two unions, you made this way too easy, read the determination from the NMB.

http://www.nmb.gov/r...2006/33n031.pdf

This determination addresses the representation consequences of the application filed by the Airline Customer Service Employee Association, IBT-CWA (Association) for the craft or class of Passenger Service Employees, employees of US Airways.

The Board finds that the Association is the certified representative of the entire craft or class of Passenger Service Employees in the single transportation system (R-7085). The Board extinguishes the certifications held by CWA for this craft or class on East (R-6435) and by the IBT on West (R-7011).

The IAM/TWU alliance is a maneuver designed to deny the combined membership a say in their representation.

This example cited by 700 is the simplest explanation ....



What the NMB told swamt is true, they DO NOT have jurisdiction over union alliances or mergers.

What is occurring here is that neither the IAM nor the TWU will file for representation on their own with the NMB. They will file, AS ONE, with the NMB as the IAM/TWU alliance. The memberships at AA and US never having a say on alliance before the vote.

So 700s example would play out as the IAM/TWU alliance is certified, and the individual certifications of the TWU at AA and the IAM at US are extinguished.

Minus any intervenors once an STS investigation is concluded the vote is either the alliance or non-union. The IAM/TWU has denied the membership a say in this alliance, and are counting on them not to vote "no union"

As swamt has said, the memberships at both AA & US need to educate themselves. Specifically with the ability to have another group, chosen by the membership, file as an intervenor.

Again from one of my previous posts ...

Until there is a completed merger, there can't be an investigation into a Single Transportation System or STS.

Until there is a completed NMB STS investigation there cannot be an election.

If/When the NMB STS investigation is complete, AND the merged carriers are considered a STS for the class and craft in question, then there is a window for intervenors to file a showing of interest and be added to the ballot.


If you are satisfied with the IAM/TWU alliance, then simply wait and vote accordingly.

If you are NOT satisfied, then take action and have your choice for representation file as an intervenor when the time comes.

The choice is still yours to make.

First and foremost; Thank you Thirdseathero, for seeing thru all this BS 700 is twisting and turning. Now for you 700, NOTHING you have posted has proven that the NMB ran the elections of any alliance, combination, or merger of 2 unions. The only thing you posted was that they did an investigation to an application for the cert to be transferred, and as long as there was no protest, or other unions that wanted to get in then they blessed it with a new certification. They (the NMB) still did not run, control, or perform the election of the alliance, combination, or merger of 2 unions coming together to represent both airline employees PERIOD. You always post for others to quit their lying out here. You 700 need to quit posting the lies of the NMB conducting the elections of 2 unions coming together. Again I will repeat, just like a father to his kids, because I have to, the NMB WILL NOT conduct, run, control, or perform an election for the mechanics and related at AA and US who are represented by the TWU and IAM respectively, as they have put in writing to me by e-mail the following, and I QUOTE:- " The NMB has no jurisdiction over the alliance or merger of unions and does not conduct such elections", they will investigate the cert transfers after they receive the application, but this is after the unions conducted the election and sent the results with NO OTHER unions claiming an interest to represent and then they will transfer the certs. NOTHING you have posted shows or proves that the NMB held, controlled, ran, or conducted any elections in the past for 2 unions combining, merging, creating an alliance or what ever you guys want to call it today. Give it up 700, your deceit postings have been brought to light. Your lies are now brought to light. Nothing from the NMB web sites you provide even indicate they held the elections, they only say they investigated and transferred the cert after there were no other interest of other unions to represent. Give it up 700. Your credibility is now a big fat "0". I know your gonna say you received all this info from your "mentor" 20 year old best friend at the IAM. STOP and gather the info for yourself. I recommended for you to do this and you chose not to, now you look like a fool. I dare you to call or write the NMB at 202-692-5050 or [email protected] and ask if they would run the election for the alliance of the TWU and IAM combination. Your answer, I guarantee will be NO. I also recommend any AA and US mechanic to do the same (don't believe me) get the information yourselves and you too will be told " The NMB has no jurisdiction over the alliance or merger of unions and does not conduct such elections.
Have a wonderful day and stop with your BS deceitful postings to try and force the memberships to vote for the bottom of the barrel 2 unions or they will be non-union... You kill me with your intentions as they are not true and for the betterment of the union members, it is ONLY for the betterment of the TWU/IAM dues to continue coming in.

 

[swamt]

BTW 700, since your so eager to post quotes and deceit. Why don't you post the results "from the NMB web site" that shows the voting results of the example you have provided above. If the NMB conducted the elections as you have stated where is the NMB results stating number of eligibility, number of how many voted, number of for or against all WITH NMB letter head, NOT union letter head putting out the results. Provide that information...

 

[700UW]

Deceit?

You will eat those words I posted the information I got from the man who wrote the alliance and told you what the Alliance and the NMB will be doing, I posted case history.

You are just like WT, except you are an AMFA cheerleader and not DL.

I am done with this, I posted the facts, and case history.

 

[Kev3188]

You guys are so busy trying to sh*t on 700 that you're missing the bigger picture.

The questions you should be asking are:

Why is this "alliance" even on the table?

Why wouldn't the IAM & TWU have the confidence to push for a victory on their own?

If it's a labor (or case) law issue, why are the laws so stacked against us?

If it's a sh*tty leadership issue, why haven't the rank and file pushed to make the necessary changes?

Why are craft unions appealing in today's environment, and what does that say about the state of organized labor?

Like it or not, unless one of you is independently wealthy and just turning wrenches for fun, we're all in this together.

Are pushing for improved working conditions for America's working class? A restoration of respect for the AMT profession? A better tomorrow for all of us? Yes?

Then guess what; you & 700 (and me) are all pushing to achieve the same ultimate aim, just from different angles.

... And unless you dig the idea of bosses pointing and laughing while we're at each other's throats, we need to get on the same page ASAP.

 

[1AA]

The association is to protect union dues. Both unions do not want to concede to the other in a election in fear of losing out all together. The AFL-CIO has a hand in this because they lose $$$$$ as well if we get rid of both loser unions.

 

[Kev3188]

Both unions do not want to concede to the other in a election in fear of losing out all together.

I wouldn't disagree, but again, that's leads back to the larger questions I posted above.

Here's another (rhetorical) one: Why has the value proposition of being repp'ed by the TWU and/or IAM dropped so low that they no longer have the confidence to run by themselves?