IAM Stepping Up campaign

[WorldTraveler]

not the first OFF CAMPUS union proselytizing event... and 700 can participate because no DL ID is required to get into the place - only for the IAM to pick up the tab.
 
BTW, the food their is ok... good selections of Mexican beer... maybe the IAM is hoping on getting the invitees drunk enough to throw the wool over their eyes. 
 
Buyer beware

 

[BABABOOY]

They will throw anything up but nothing is sticking....still can't get enough cards to sign.  Bless their hearts lol...                                                 Meanwhile many cards have expired and and not re-signed.   Also NOT in their favour is 1600 new hires coming on the
property in the next few months.  (was 1500 but announced another 100) Delta is hiring many smart people who know how to 
think for themselves and make educated decisions.  Something the IAM is very afraid of.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm actually surprised at how many junior people are not only signing cards but also getting actively involved with both campaigns.

Delta may be "hiring people who know how to think for themselves," but you're forgetting the 1000's of people already on the property who do just that. They're signing (and re-signing) cards too.

BTW, you do realize that every time you say "the IAM" you're actually referring to our coworkers, right?

 

[700UW]

More Facts:
 
http://www.takingbackourfamily.com/pdf/total%20compensation/Total%20Compensation%20.pdf

 

[robbedagain]

that's pretty darn sad that a non union ramper loses nearly 200k not to mention more n more of the RR are not compensated....  but don't worry we will see how well mr delta preacher defends dl and the RR and how wonderful it is for the airline

 

[WorldTraveler]

The data may or may not be accurate... as usual, the IAM doesn't state all of the factors that are included (pay means what, how are benefits calculated since they are different for each employee etc). 
 
The IAM HATES FULL DISCLOSURE because if they did, then their assumptions which THEY MAKE might not fit what an employee would choose as what they consider important.
 
After all, the IAM gave away profit sharing at some of its biggest airlines - and yet other airline employees are walking away with a month or more of salary... it's nearly impossible to overcome that difference in compensation - but the IAM doesn't include it because it isn't "guaranteed" - as if the contracts the IAM signed at any airline have been worth more than toilet paper after a trip thru BK court. 
 
The dead give away and what DL employees will immediately pick up on is that BOTH, not just WN or UA, but BOTH of those carriers are in the midst of SIGNIFICANT ramp outsourcing.
 
WN has closed at least 18 cities since the FL merger - including FL acquired cities and original WN cities - and there will be more announced this year.
 
We aren't talking a few cities served in the upper midwest by at best regional jets but mostly turboprops.  We're talking mainline cities served with mainline employees.  DL employees would justify be in an uproar if DL closed 18 cities and counting. 
 
As for UA, they just shut one hub and there will be more to come - and the rampers on the bottom of UA's list won't find a place to run.  The RJ staffing crisis will hit UA very hard and it will impact UA's own employees. 
 
Also doesn't change that UA is in the midst of a $2 BILLION cost cutting campaign in order to turn the merger around 4 years after their merger. UA mainline isn't growing and the company will be targeting UA employee costs - like everything else - more and more over the next few months.  UA is not a place any DL employee wants to be right now or likely for several years down the road.
 
Like Baba says, the IAM will throw out any argument it can.  DL people are smart enough to know what a good deal is and what is not.
 
 
and BTW, WN's ramp employees are represented by the TWU, not the IAM, right?  And the TWU and WN are locked in a nasty battle over outsourcing and staffing issues that has gone very public. Hardly the model that any DL employee wants to pursue... and raises even more questions why DL employees would pursue the IAM when yet another union's employees have the highest CURRENT pay -even if WN is doing everything possible to cut WN ramp costs as aggressively as they can. 

 

[robbedagain]

of course with you as their unofficial preacher spokesman you pretty well speak for the delta folks considering youre not even employed there    you have no idea how they feel now vs when you were there...  times do change 
on the other hand  the data you use is most likely altered for your own ego

 

[WorldTraveler]

is it possible for you to just focus on the topic at hand, robbed, instead of trying to throw personal information and jabs into the discussion?  I'll be happy to do the same for you when you demonstrate you are willing to focus on issues and not Wal-Mart, Brazil, and religion. 
 
Full disclosure is full disclosure.  Period.  and doesn't matter who it involves.
 
And the cuts that WN and UA are making on their ramps is very public information. 

 

[Kev3188]

The data may or may not be accurate...

Nice attempt at trying to sow a seed of doubt. You're definitely a product of the DL finishing school, I'll give you that. 
 

The IAM HATES FULL DISCLOSURE because if they did, then their assumptions which THEY MAKE might not fit what an employee would choose as what they consider important.

They do? How do you know? Since "The IAM" really means "DL employees," did you ask a large sample of them? Is that what's come out of your many galley & ready room visits?
 

After all, the IAM gave away profit sharing at some of its biggest airlines

Which ones? Gave away, lost in BK, or gave-to-get for another item the membership deemed more important? I'm curious, so be specific. You know, full disclosure and all that...
 

The dead give away and what DL employees will immediately pick up on is that BOTH, not just WN or UA, but BOTH of those carriers are in the midst of SIGNIFICANT ramp outsourcing.

You assume that a CBA will automatically= outsourcing on the DL property. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of your former employer.

If it's not an assumption, then by all means explain how you've arrived at that definitive conclusion. I'd like to make an informed decision, so the more data points you can provide the better.
 
 

Also doesn't change that UA is in the midst of a $2 BILLION cost cutting campaign in order to turn the merger around 4 years after their merger. UA mainline isn't growing and the company will be targeting UA employee costs - like everything else - more and more over the next few months.  UA is not a place any DL employee wants to be right now or likely for several years down the road.

...And you've spent untold bandwidth explaining why as a "first mover," DL is light years ahead of both UA & AA in merger integration issues. Are you now saying that a successful representation campaign will not only erase that, but somehow throw billions back into the employee cost bucket?

...Or are you simply trying to mount a one man FUD campaign of your own?
 

Like Baba says, the IAM will throw out any argument it can.  DL people are smart enough to know what a good deal is and what is not.

The IAM= DL people.

...And you're right; DL people are "smart enough" to decide what a good deal is/isn't, and right now, they're choosing representation in ever increasing numbers.
 
 

and BTW, WN's ramp employees are represented by the TWU, not the IAM, right?

Yes the are. WN's AW employees are IAM. And?
 

Hardly the model that any DL employee wants to pursue...

Better to sweep it under the rug, and keep up appearances, is that it?

 

[WorldTraveler]

lots here.... BTW  GOOD MORNING!  All the best to you today!
 
no, the IAM does not equal DL people.  The IAM is a union that is trying to organize some DL employees who are working with them.  The evidence is overwhelming that NO UNION has been endorsed by DL ACS, FAs, Res agents, or mechanics - all of which were unionized jobs at NW and perhaps at WA, DL's most recent whole mergers - on top of the Pan Am asset acquisition.
 
WN's BW employees are TWU.  Doesn't change that WN closed stations represented by the IAM and those employees got essentially the same type of industry relocation or severance package as DL has given.
 
how are you connecting a contract with outsourcing?  I am simply noting that WN and UA - the two companies that the IAM cites as having higher paid ramp workers - are both outsourcing huge amounts of their work RIGHT NOW.  Nowhere did I say or imply that DL would do the same. 
 
EVERY EMPLOYEE wants to at least retain his own job - and growth is preferred because it means more choices - but also increase their salary.
 
Again, DL's salary and total compensation has grown far faster than any other carrier and a big part of it has been profit sharing.
 
If you can show where those other airlines gained compensation increases as large as what DL employees gained percentage wise in profit sharing, then I'll give it to you that those employees made the right choice.
 
Every legacy airline has been thru BK.  DL was middle of the pack in terms of emergence.  US and UA were out earlier. NW a tad later.  AA most recently.  There is no excuse for continuing to hold onto BK as the reason for depressed wages that aren't growing. Either a union is capable of overcoming the effects of BK or they are not.  DL employees have overcome it without a union. 

 

[Kev3188]

no, the IAM does not equal DL people.

In this case, it absolutely does. Period. Full stop. To claim otherwise displays an almost complete (purposeful?) ignorance of how each of these current campaigns started and are developing.
 

The IAM is a union that is trying to organize some DL employees who are working with them.

And agin, you have it backwards. I'm not going to keep chasing you around to correct that, so if you're truly interested in the "whole truth," you'll stop peddling that myth.

Or you can keep on keepin' on, and we'll all see your agenda(s) for what they are. Either way, you can't claim that accuracy is king in one thread, and be careless with the truth in others. Pick one and be consistent.
 

WN's BW employees are TWU.

That's not likely news to anyone reading this.

And?


 

...how are you connecting a contract with outsourcing?

I'm not. You did.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

lots here.... BTW  GOOD MORNING!  All the best to you today!
 
no, the IAM does not equal DL people.  The IAM is a union that is trying to organize some DL employees who are working with them.  The evidence is overwhelming that NO UNION has been endorsed by DL ACS, FAs, Res agents, or mechanics - all of which were unionized jobs at NW and perhaps at WA, DL's most recent whole mergers - on top of the Pan Am asset acquisition.
 
WN's BW employees are TWU.  Doesn't change that WN closed stations represented by the IAM and those employees got essentially the same type of industry relocation or severance package as DL has given.
 
how are you connecting a contract with outsourcing?  I am simply noting that WN and UA - the two companies that the IAM cites as having higher paid ramp workers - are both outsourcing huge amounts of their work RIGHT NOW.  Nowhere did I say or imply that DL would do the same. 
 
EVERY EMPLOYEE wants to at least retain his own job - and growth is preferred because it means more choices - but also increase their salary.
 
Again, DL's salary and total compensation has grown far faster than any other carrier and a big part of it has been profit sharing.
 
If you can show where those other airlines gained compensation increases as large as what DL employees gained percentage wise in profit sharing, then I'll give it to you that those employees made the right choice.
 
Every legacy airline has been thru BK.  DL was middle of the pack in terms of emergence.  US and UA were out earlier. NW a tad later.  AA most recently.  There is no excuse for continuing to hold onto BK as the reason for depressed wages that aren't growing. Either a union is capable of overcoming the effects of BK or they are not.  DL employees have overcome it without a union. 

 
WorldTraveler, what you fail to grasp (sorry, couldn't resist using your own parlance) is that the workforce at DL is de facto union already; the threat of de jure unionization makes management constantly up the ante in compensation (affording the workgroups at Delta all the benefits that the unionized workforces at other carriers work so hard to gain without literal protections) and also spending countless dollars campaigning against-- but the tipping point will be reached at come point (if it hasn't already) where the costs to Delta Management to keep a lid on their workforce simply won't make economic sense any longer and they will have no other choice but to give up the fight. How much is it forcing DL management to spend in employee costs? They must be burning millions of dollars they would not otherwise have to waste on keeping the unions at bay. At what point is it no longer worth it to Delta? Has that point already been reached and exceeded? If not, it almost certainly will be in the very near future, and if Delta management is as smart as you constantly profess them to be, they will see the value in their bottom line to surrender the battle.

 

[WorldTraveler]

ad,
your argument has been around for years.  If, as you say, DL mgmt has to spend money to remain non-union, its costs are RELATIVE to other carriers.  When those carriers' employee costs stop rising, DL's do too.  The notion that DL employee costs will keep growing at a rate that outstrips what other carriers do is incorrect.,
 
The simple reality is that DL's workforce has been more efficient and productive.  I haven't seen statistics in the most recent couple of years but airline productivity has long been with WN at the top, CO/DL/NW in the middle of the pack, and AA/UA at the bottom of the pack.  US has floated between categories but has moved closer to the middle of the pack before the merger. 
 
The most significant difference is that DL is generating the level of REVENUES that allow it to pay its employees well.  I have a hard time understanding how some people here are so quick to enthrone WN for its high pay without understand that WN has done an outstanding job of finding and growing revenues - and that is why WN employees do well. 
 
DL is doing the same thing and it is precisely why I talk so much about DL's ability to defend its markets - which translates into revenue premiums and to keep growing.. which DL is doing while AA and UA are not. combined AA/US might but they still have at least 10K more employees for a similar sized airline that DL or UA have. 
 
No, DL mgmt will never surrender the battle to just accept unions because unions have repeatedly come with work disruptions and lack of flexibility that have cost hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue and customer ill-will.
 
There simply were no public fights at DL after any of the mergers like there have been at US-HP or CO-UA.
 
 
Kev,
I know you know the technicalities but the IAM is not a legal representative for any DL employee and only will be one when a vote is called and the results have been affirmed. 
The IAM DOES NOT SPEAK for anyone at DL and is involved with a group of individual DL employees only at their request - as individuals.
 
The number of people that are asking for the IAM has not been affirmed and will not be affirmed.
 
Finally, remember exactly to ad's point, that DL employees esp. FAs have repeatedly sent in cards as a threat to mgmt only to vote no in the election... exactly because they get what they want w/o the union.
 
 

 

You assume that a CBA will automatically= outsourcing on the DL property. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of your former employer.

If it's not an assumption, then by all means explain how you've arrived at that definitive conclusion. I'd like to make an informed decision, so the more data points you can provide the better.
 
 

this is the phrase you need to explain and connect with what I have said.
 
Go ahead with explaining FUD... not in my database.

 

[robbedagain]

more efficient and productivity at dl but no other airline...  ok got it now!      then how come us has been consistent in placing in the top 3    is it bec we don't have efficient and productivity employees  or is it bec of being in a union? 

 

[WorldTraveler]

it's because you are paid a whole lot less.  remember, you have been robbedagain and again and again?
 
And I have noted that US has moved into the mid-tier along with DL .... since CO and NW are no longer in that grouping any longer.
 
I can assure you that US' employee productivity is nowhere near what WN's is - and I've never said DL's is either.