IAM Stepping Up campaign

[Kev3188]

They must be burning millions of dollars they would not otherwise have to waste on keeping the unions at bay. At what point is it no longer worth it to Delta?

No price is too high to maintain autocracy.



WT: FUD= Fear Uncertainty Doubt

 

[Kev3188]

n
BTW, the food their is ok... good selections of Mexican beer... maybe the IAM is hoping on getting the invitees drunk enough to throw the wool over their eyes. 
 
Buyer beware

DL ends most training sessions with offerings of beer/wine. Are they hoping to get people "drunk enough to throw the wool over their eyes?"

 

[robbedagain]

it don't explain how the other carriers have also been placed in the top spots too wt    face it  you really think you know everything  but in reality  you don't know it all...

 

[700UW]

Kevin,
 
Is it true employees hired 2009 and after are only getting a 2% raise and everyone else is getting 3%?

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL ends most training sessions with offerings of beer/wine. Are they hoping to get people "drunk enough to throw the wool over their eyes?"

 
Most?  not THAT I would like to see.
 
An off the clock gathering of employees at a bar?  Sure.  DL doesn't tell its employees what they can/cannot do on their free time. 
 
 

it don't explain how the other carriers have also been placed in the top spots too wt    face it  you really think you know everything  but in reality  you don't know it all...

robbed,
it's not top secret data.   accept that there really is data that is used to calculate how efficient all types of companies are and you can add in labor cost data which is public for airlines... US employees have been on average paid well below average compared to their network carrier peers for quite some time.
 
Where did you come up with that information, 700? 

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

 
The simple reality is that DL's workforce has been more efficient and productive.  I haven't seen statistics in the most recent couple of years but airline productivity has long been with WN at the top, CO/DL/NW in the middle of the pack, and AA/UA at the bottom of the pack.  US has floated between categories but has moved closer to the middle of the pack before the merger. 

 
Actually, the "simple reality" is: at some point Delta will have spent more money keeping unions off the property than if they had just been unionized all along.
 
But I would really like to hear specific examples of all these mysterious "efficiencies" and phantom "productivity enhancements" of which you speak; I've never had anyone been able to point to a specific work rule and say, "here, this helps the company and our employees!" that couldn't also be written into a CBA.
 
 

No price is too high to maintain autocracy.
 

 
Winner winner, chicken dinner!

 

[WorldTraveler]

for every "this" I cite, someone could cite a "that"
 
Overall efficiency data per employee is available from the DOT and is reported at the MIT airline data project. 

Honestly, I haven't studied that part of the data in recent years so I don't know what result you will find - go for it.
 
Historically, CO, NW, and DL have used their increased productivity as a means to grow relative to AA and UA.
 
AA still has 10K more employees on the payroll compared to DL and UA that will hurt its productivity. 
 
The only way to increase efficiency after an airline merger is to lay off alot of people or grow alot. The other option is to pay the ones who remain a whole lot less so your total employee costs are less.  With more than 10% more employees than DL or UA, new AA has to solve the problem and carrying 10K more employees will impact salaries of those who remain as well as earnings for the company until it is solved. 

 

[700UW]

Who has the largest fleet AA and US combined and who is the world's largest airline?
 
We all know the answer to that.

 

[WorldTraveler]

sorry but fleet count doesn't mean a thing.  Revenue is what pays the bills.  Whoever generates the most revenue relative to their costs is what matters. 
 
All US airlines are profit-motivated.  Not fleet size or number of passenger boardings.
 
Profit.

 

[700UW]

And US is estimated to make more than any other US based airline ever made before, even more than your almighty DL.

 

[WorldTraveler]

show me the stats and I will be happy to acknowledge it.
 
do you think you can ditch the "almighty" part?  I have never used it...
 
Also doesn't change that AA and US are now one.   As much as you want to try, it is one airline... and you will board FCFS, not by seniority.  🙂
 
don't blow a gasket now.

 

[700UW]

Change the subject much?
 
And no one knows what the policy will be as it is in the grievance procedure.
 
Larger airline requires more bodies to run it as more planes and more flights means more people and more profits.

 

[Kev3188]

Kevin,
 
Is it true employees hired 2009 and after are only getting a 2% raise and everyone else is getting 3%?

Actually, anyone not at TOS will be getting less. Those hired post-2009 also suffer further economic losses given the de facto B-Scale currently in effect.
 
 

Most?  not THAT I would like to see.

I'm not sure what that sentence means.

Actually, the "simple reality" is: at some point Delta will have spent more money keeping unions off the property than if they had just been unionized all along.

Truth.
 

But I would really like to hear specific examples of all these mysterious "efficiencies" and phantom "productivity enhancements" of which you speak; I've never had anyone been able to point to a specific work rule and say, "here, this helps the company and our employees!" that couldn't also be written into a CBA.

Also true.

 

[700UW]

So WT how is that fair?
 
2% and not getting 3% like other employees

 

[WorldTraveler]

Kevin needs to first explain what  a "de facto" B scale is. 
 
 
As for productivity and efficiency, I looked it up because I want to know the answer.  It isn't changing the subject to investigate claims which you make and which turn out to be wrong. 
 
As usual, the data validates what I have said and not what you have believe.
 
For 2012, the last year for which DOT data is available of AA, DL, UA, US, and WN, the first number is the number of ASMs/employee and the second is revenue/employee, both in thousands.
 
WN generates 2833 ASMs per employee and $341 in revenue
For DL it is 2559 and 311
For UA it is 2458 and 293
For US it is 2375 and 283
For AA it is 2365 and 290
 
So, in fact, DL is the most efficient of the US legacy airlines, bested by WN - which isn't a surprise given that I have repeatedly said that WN's revenue generating capacity is what fuels their high salaries while AA and US are BOTH at the bottom of the list.... AA generates more revenue but US is slightly more efficiently in generating seats.
 
You can argue that AA has more employees because of less maintenance outsourcing but that excuse can't be used for US which is neither efficient in terms of the amount of ASMs they generate per employee nor in the revenue each employee generates.
 
Whether you want to accept it or not, the reason why WN has long been able to pay the salaries it does is because it runs a very good business.  DL has moved to the head of the pack in the industry in the past several years - remember this is 2012 data and DL's revenue growth was stronger in 2013 than it was in 2012 - and it also excludes FL data - they are classified separately from WN. 
 
DL employees enjoy what they do because DL mgmt runs a very strong business and continues to increase efficiency and revenue generating ability.  Not surprisingly, employees benefit from the strength of the overall finances of the company.
 
Unions cannot give employees what the company doesn't have.