IAM Fleet Service topic

[roadtrip]

I noticed a very curious thing today. Several people I spoke with who previously stated they were probably
voting yes are suddenly re-thinking their vote. The reason they were changing their minds had more to do
with a potential merger than anything else. They had always thought the T/A was a POS but didn't think anything
better was going to come along. Now they are saying that they did not want to be locked in with this T/A for the
next 5 years or so in the event of a merger.

Joe,
Read this article from the WSJ view here

here is a quote from the WSJ

J.P. Morgan airline analyst Jamie Baker, in a research note earlier this week, said he sees more merit in a tie-up between United and US Airways than in a combination of United and Continental. Wages at United and US Airways are closely aligned and relatively low, their fleets mesh well and both already are in the Star Alliance. US Airways is much smaller than Continental, suggesting that regulators might be more likely to approve a United-US Airways combination -- despite the fact that the Justice Department rejected an earlier merger plan between them in 2001. US Airways, after two bankruptcies, merged with America West Airlines in 2005.

Mr. Baker also said because of UAL's slumping share price, it may be reluctant to do a share swap -- the preferred structure these days, and one that Delta and Northwest are proposing -- with Continental because Continental shareholders would end up with a greater proportion of the combined company. A deal with US Airways would give United shareholders more ownership of the merged entity.

 

[Rock Bottom]

You know when are both sides gonna realize, you can huff and puff all you want, but your not going to change each other's minds?

Time to realize, agree to disagree.

I'm going to huff and puff and blow this house of cards away!

I have already made my yes vote brothers see the truth, that this t/a is bad for their future and their families future.

 

[roabilly]

You know when are both sides gonna realize, you can huff and puff all you want, but your not going to change each other's minds?

Time to realize, agree to disagree.

Well 700…

Finally somthin’ we agree on !

It will ultimately be the majority of this Membership, that chooses to either ratify or reject this POS they're callin’ a Transition Agreement.

This ain’t ahh East… West deal…as some may perceive…it’s a test of all of Fleet's resolve…period!

We (Fleet) will show our collective strength, and send a message to the Company, and the Union that we mean business!

ROA sez vote NO… on this MO-FO!

 

[P. REZ]

The Bagfather,

Note to P REZ: Thanks for coming on here Your knowledge
and feedback is valuable. I would appreciate if you would
care to indulge in speculation as to what kind of contract the
west would have by now should the TWU would have prevailed
or the IAM would have followed thru on negotiations.

Hey, thanks the check is in the mail for the kind comments. In all due respects if we would have been AWA and never merged, we would have had the ATSB loan constraints to deal with which stipulated that the company could not pay more than 23% in wages and benefits over a 3 year contract. So, with that said here is a comparison of what I believe we would have had in comparison to what this TA offers. We would have cleaned our language up and kept scope, L-T and S-T disability etc.

yrs TA AWA
0 9.18 9.37
1 10.26 10.33
2 11.06 10.90
3 11.72 11.37
4 12.21 11.80
5 14.23 12.09
6 14.49 12.51
7 15.31 12.93
8 16.22 14.37
9 17.41 15.56
10 17.95 16.75
11 18.38 17.48
12 19.00 17.77
13 19.00 18.39
14 19.00 18.70


Now, if you want me to speculate on whether TWU would have done any different than IAM in these transitional talks, I have to say I don't know. It would have depended on who they sent into these talks. I am not happy with this TA but will not say that TWU could have done better because I wasn't in these transitional talks so I can't compare styles of negotiating. I would love to say I could have done better or this or that person could have done better but that would be pure speculation. I have been a part of two negotiations and they are no picnic.

I hope this rambling helped?

Respectfully,

P. REZ

 

[necigrad]

I thought the ATSB loan got paid off moths before the merger and CBA ammendable date both. Paying it off lifted all restrictions.

 

[giantfan]

ROA sez vote NO… on this MO-FO!

Roa, I gotta admit, you & I hardly agree on anything on this board but your posts sometimes make me LOL

Altho I hate to encourage you!

 

[robbedagain]

Joe,
Read this article from the WSJ view here

here is a quote from the WSJ

J.P. Morgan airline analyst Jamie Baker, in a research note earlier this week, said he sees more merit in a tie-up between United and US Airways than in a combination of United and Continental. Wages at United and US Airways are closely aligned and relatively low, their fleets mesh well and both already are in the Star Alliance. US Airways is much smaller than Continental, suggesting that regulators might be more likely to approve a United-US Airways combination -- despite the fact that the Justice Department rejected an earlier merger plan between them in 2001. US Airways, after two bankruptcies, merged with America West Airlines in 2005.

Mr. Baker also said because of UAL's slumping share price, it may be reluctant to do a share swap -- the preferred structure these days, and one that Delta and Northwest are proposing -- with Continental because Continental shareholders would end up with a greater proportion of the combined company. A deal with US Airways would give United shareholders more ownership of the merged entity.

the shares would give UAL shareholders more ownership: sounds like to me that US wants this fleet ta approved so that UAL can buy US

 

[orioleman]

freedom,
"I feel like these east guys are using us as a tool to get what they want … It feels to me like we’ve been the ones out here taking all the risks and doing all of the work …. How many rallies have we been joined at by East coast workers ? How many of them have been willing to cross those lines that we aren’t suppose to ? What have they done other than complain about our union ?"

first let me remind you of something . WHO is giving up scope and language and P/S to bring you into OUR contract. remember that
ok. as far as risk and doing all the work . YOU don't have a clue about taking risk . SO you have a rally on the ramp. ..GREAT
you get some bonus points. SO you march to burger king screaming we want justice . Great you get double bonus points.
and all the union s have a day of solidarity at HQ . Great. guess what . for 1 the superbowl wasn't played back east and HQ is
in tempe. SO being in your own backyard I would fully expect you guys to participate . Have you tryed Non-rev to clt or phl out
of phx. I guess you thought maybe the company would charter a flight to bring as many east folks out as the could to protest
in front of there HQ. dude give it up . the east has been fighting this fight for to long. sorry you guys had to come in to it

 

[giantfan]

Take this for what it's worth..... in discussions with an AGC it was revealed that the company will infact roll the west into the east if this T/A is voted down.

They WILL NOT go back for another negotiation, they only did this time b/c of maintenance.

Also, they said that this will leave the 18 field stations suseptible to closure sooner than the 3 years that's in the new tentative.


I know I sound like DF but this is in fact what I was told...just putting it out there.....

 

[orioleman]

700,
" You know when are both sides gonna realize, you can huff and puff all you want, but your not going to change each other's minds?

Time to realize, agree to disagree."

700 gotta give you props on that .. thats the most sense you've made in the your last 100 post . good job ..

 

[Tim Nelson]

I noticed a very curious thing today. Several people I spoke with who previously stated they were probably
voting yes are suddenly re-thinking their vote. The reason they were changing their minds had more to do
with a potential merger than anything else. They had always thought the T/A was a POS but didn't think anything
better was going to come along. Now they are saying that they did not want to be locked in with this T/A for the
next 5 years or so in the event of a merger.

I heard from someone 'very loyal if not most loyal' to Canale yesterday as he opened up communications with me over concerns that he doesn't want us to come after him in a vote in 2 years. He was also 'pissed off like hell' that AF and RC miscalculated and forced Rich Delaney to go back to the ramp and give up his $120,000 job. AF and RC thought that Rich was going to screw the membership and take the money but they were wrong. Canale can't hold Rich's jockstrap.

At any rate, he said it's true that United will announce a merger with US AIRWAYS before June 1st but after our contract vote [I originally had confirmation that it would be the 3rd week of May]. He also said that fleet service will be screwed if this contract comes in as United will displace many workers [thus the new restrictions on the reduction in force that hoses full-timers] and the west will be virtually 'eliminated' with the 'drop dead' date of 2011.
I asked him about the duration and he said that he didn't know but believes that if this contract gets passed, then United will most likely not sign another fleet service contract until 2017, not 2016. I found that interesting but consistent with 'good sense'. Fleet service will experience 'great pain' if this contract comes in immediately before a merger announcement. It makes no sense to lock yourselves in for the next 8 or 9 years, especially when you are only 1 year away from section 6 OR one month away from real negotiations. So far there have not been ANY negotiations. United has been on YOUR side of the table with Randy Canale. Again, there has been NO negotiations as Randy just leaves the entire negotiations team at hotels while he does backroom 'deals'. Randy said they all fought hard...bull crap. Basically the negotiations lasted 4 minutes. Hemenway walked in and said this was his final offer, Canale jumped all over it......4 minutes, that's all it took. Staged.

Remember, Rich Delaney is not going to take Randy's Board seat on the United Board.

Merger Beware: Not a transition agreement, it's a merger agreement

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[orioleman]

P rez,
"These east guys are smart and know when a good argument has been made."

In conclusion, don't get frustrated, state your facts and the people reading these posts will make their decisions that best suit them and their families."

Touch`e my friend. I appreciate your comments and your honesty that goes a long way in my book. Sure we all are going to

have our views and disagreements thats democracy and I totally respect that. It's just when people talk out of their Arse without

any facts to back them up thats what I have a hard time with .

any way P rez just curious if . Dale and the boys thought PHX was going majority NO on this vote . think the O.T would still be

offered.

again thanks for your honest and upfront views from the west. You have gain alot of creditability with the east.

 

[Henderfuzz]

Heres another thing to think about when you go vote is this. We just reported a loss for the first quarter. How many companies do you know offer pay raises when there loosing money.
I would have to say none. I know there are things about this agreement we all would not like to see but this is just a bad time to keep hopping for something better.
The other item that gets little press here is the change in scope in article 3 of this T/A.
This is an improvment in our language.
Bascially your station would have to have fewer than 2 flights per day to be outsourced.
This is a big improvment so for you east field stations keep this in mind when your reading this.
Just some thoughts to keep in mind.

 

[Henderfuzz]

I heard from someone 'very loyal if not most loyal' to Canale yesterday as he opened up communications with me over concerns that he doesn't want us to come after him in a vote in 2 years. He was also 'pissed off like hell' that AF and RC miscalculated and forced Rich Delaney to go back to the ramp and give up his $120,000 job. AF and RC thought that Rich was going to screw the membership and take the money but they were wrong. Canale can't hold Rich's jockstrap.

At any rate, he said it's true that United will announce a merger with US AIRWAYS before June 1st but after our contract vote [I originally had confirmation that it would be the 3rd week of May]. He also said that fleet service will be screwed if this contract comes in as United will displace many workers [thus the new restrictions on the reduction in force that hoses full-timers] and the west will be virtually 'eliminated' with the 'drop dead' date of 2011.
I asked him about the duration and he said that he didn't know but believes that if this contract gets passed, then United will most likely not sign another fleet service contract until 2017, not 2016. I found that interesting but consistent with 'good sense'. Fleet service will experience 'great pain' if this contract comes in immediately before a merger announcement. It makes no sense to lock yourselves in for the next 8 or 9 years, especially when you are only 1 year away from section 6 OR one month away from real negotiations. So far there have not been ANY negotiations. United has been on YOUR side of the table with Randy Canale. Again, there has been NO negotiations as Randy just leaves the entire negotiations team at hotels while he does backroom 'deals'. Randy said they all fought hard...bull crap. Basically the negotiations lasted 4 minutes. Hemenway walked in and said this was his final offer, Canale jumped all over it......4 minutes, that's all it took. Staged.

Remember, Rich Delaney is not going to take Randy's Board seat on the United Board.

Merger Beware: Not a transition agreement, it's a merger agreement

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

So Tim did you get this conversation on tape or are we just suppose to take your word for this scare tactic. I just love the way you come up with this BS you put on this board.
Maybe your just afraid that this is going to pass and you wont be able to gloat with your predication of a 80 to 90 percent no.

 

[orioleman]

fuzz,
"Heres another thing to think about when you go vote is this. We just reported a loss for the first quarter. How many companies do you know offer pay raises when there loosing money."

fuzz if you remember the company stated back in Jan or feb they expected along with the rest of the industry to have a first quarter
loss.

Now having said that. You say how many companies offer pay raises. well US does. they gave M/R 10 % across the board and overall

30 % . skill or no skill its contradicts your theory . also they pushed through the SEC . a 200% bonus thats not attached to financial

improvements or goals. but its tied to operational which by the way We as employees control. so Please explain why it's o.k to give

themselves and other workgroups raises in this gloom and doom times but not F/S ....