IAM Fleet Service topic

[Henderfuzz]

The Company knows what it's doing. The stock price was at about 9 bucks when Hemenway inked the Mechanic deal for snap backs, no layoff protections, better retirement contritbutions, and around 30% increased compensation package over 5 years. Ironically, that same day, oil traded at an all-time high during the intraday trading at $112.75.

Fuzz, it's the company's job to fix problems so let them worry about it. In the meantime, if hemenway can sign that kinda deal for mechanics then it naturally follows that he can accomadate the fleet service interest also.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Ok I agree that becasue of what the Mechs. got we need to see a very fair agreement come out of the talks next week, however you dont just wave a wand and say fuel prices go away.
I just read an article about what must be done for ailrlines to get thur this huge increase in fuel and its to reduce capacity. Well we all know what that means, reduction in service.
We all need to be perparied for that and understand that we may have to be willing to not gain everthing back in a T/A that we had hoped for.
I once again say however that I have no faith in the NC to find a way to compromise on certain items. That means we will still be out here making Sxxt wages during the reccession.
We all know as you have said that COC and profit sharing give ups should be in exchange for more dollars in our rate of pay. Im just not sure that thats what we will see.

 

[Districtforce]

Ok I agree that becasue of what the Mechs. got we need to see a very fair agreement come out of the talks next week, however you dont just wave a wand and say fuel prices go away.
I just read an article about what must be done for ailrlines to get thur this huge increase in fuel and its to reduce capacity. Well we all know what that means, reduction in service.
We all need to be perparied for that and understand that we may have to be willing to not gain everthing back in a T/A that we had hoped for.
I once again say however that I have no faith in the NC to find a way to compromise on certain items. That means we will still be out here making Sxxt wages during the reccession.
We all know as you have said that COC and profit sharing give ups should be in exchange for more dollars in our rate of pay. Im just not sure that thats what we will see.

I couldn't agree more with your opinion. Fleet service are not mechanics and it is foolish to expect that fleet service is entitled to the same type of wage boost that our mechanics just received in their tentative agreement.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I couldn't agree more with your opinion. Fleet service are not mechanics and it is foolish to expect that fleet service is entitled to the same type of wage boost that our mechanics just received in their tentative agreement.

District Force, I'm off today, and I'm glad I caught you online. So would you be up for a debate?
First question, your response seems to do harm to justice, i.e., if one group receives a pay raise, shouldn't the other expect the same % raise? Why do you differ on this when we talk about mechanics?

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Districtforce]

District Force, I'm off today, and I'm glad I caught you online. So would you be up for a debate?
First question, your response seems to do harm to justice, i.e., if one group receives a pay raise, shouldn't the other expect the same % raise? Why do you differ on this when we talk about mechanics?

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Tim,
I know you disagree with this but our mechanics have been members of our union for decades and deserve to gain a greater percentage of their past sacrifices based on the craft's history on this property. I also think your company feels the same way when I compare what they offered fleet service and what they offered our mechanic members. I think if you want to compare crafts then a better fit might be to compare fleet service with the CWA members. When you compare apples with apples, you'll come to the conclusion that something between $19-$20 is more in line than your interpretation that justice means something over $20.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
I know you disagree with this but our mechanics have been members of our union for decades and deserve to gain a greater percentage of their past sacrifices based on the craft's history on this property. I also think your company feels the same way when I compare what they offered fleet service and what they offered our mechanic members. I think if you want to compare crafts then a better fit might be to compare fleet service with the CWA members. When you compare apples with apples, you'll come to the conclusion that something between $19-$20 is more in line than your interpretation that justice means something over $20.

When I compare what the mechanics received in their compensation package, I'm convinced that if the company can afford to give one group a 31% compensation gain over 5 years then it naturally follows that it's fair to give the other group the same thing. Nobody's saying fleet should make $26hr. But if fleet gets the same wage gains that the mechanics received then it would put fleet over $20 at the beginning and put them over $23 at the end. The mechanics also got some no layoff protections so fleet should demand the same, especially since mergers are in the air.

Regarding CWA members. The CWA took a lessor wage than $20 in return for a gain of jobs everywhere US AIRWAYS flies and also so it could keep its profit sharing. If Hemenway agrees to recognize fleet service at all the same stations where he recognizes the CWA & if he agrees that fleet service can keep its profit sharing then it might be fair to consider something under $20. The company even agreed to contribute to the CWA's retirement in amounts up to 10%, even though it contributes significantly less to fleet service's retirement.
Fleet service has been so abused and contracted out that our resolve for much wages and vacation are at the most high sacred.

The problem is that the Randy Canale screws fleet service both ways. It should be either/or, NOT, both/and. If Al wants fleet's profit sharing and doesn't want to give fleet the same scope stations as CWA then the gains must be recognized in the higher wage.
Fleet is always giving and not getting anything in return. Then when fleet service is in position to gain, it doesn't gain as much as even the non-union on the property. Further, the IAM sometimes operates as an elitist union that caters to mechanics. Nothing against our mechanic brothers and sisters but there is NO reason to widen the gulf between when comparing contract gains for mechanics and fleet service. Not on this side of bankruptcy. I also think Fleet service actually has more solidarity and has a chance to get more than what the mechanics received. At any rate, fleet service isn't compelled to accept anything unless it is fair.

Further, by using your reasoning, fleet should be ahead of CWA anyways since the upstairs didn't vote in union until 5 years after fleet service.

At any rate, $20 and increased benefits is fair when comparing what the company just afforded the mechanics. It is also fair when comparing the industry standards [see WN, AA, CO]. Even at bankrupt airlines like UA and NW who are both represented by the IAM have much better deals.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[700UW]

Tim,

The IAM represents more Rampers, CSAs, and FAs then Mechanics.

The GVP Robert Roach is a former Ramper.

 

[Districtforce]

When I compare what the mechanics received in their compensation package, I'm convinced that if the company can afford to give one group a 31% compensation gain over 5 years then it naturally follows that it's fair to give the other group the same thing. Nobody's saying fleet should make $26hr. But if fleet gets the same wage gains that the mechanics received then it would put fleet over $20 at the beginning and put them over $23 at the end. The mechanics also got some no layoff protections so fleet should demand the same, especially since mergers are in the air.

Regarding CWA members. The CWA took a lessor wage than $20 in return for a gain of jobs everywhere US AIRWAYS flies and also so it could keep its profit sharing. If Hemenway agrees to recognize fleet service at all the same stations where he recognizes the CWA & if he agrees that fleet service can keep its profit sharing then it might be fair to consider something under $20. The company even agreed to contribute to the CWA's retirement in amounts up to 10%, even though it contributes significantly less to fleet service's retirement.
Fleet service has been so abused and contracted out that our resolve for much wages and vacation are at the most high sacred.

The problem is that the Randy Canale screws fleet service both ways. It should be either/or, NOT, both/and. If Al wants fleet's profit sharing and doesn't want to give fleet the same scope stations as CWA then the gains must be recognized in the higher wage.
Fleet is always giving and not getting anything in return. Then when fleet service is in position to gain, it doesn't gain as much as even the non-union on the property. Further, the IAM sometimes operates as an elitist union that caters to mechanics. Nothing against our mechanic brothers and sisters but there is NO reason to widen the gulf between when comparing contract gains for mechanics and fleet service. Not on this side of bankruptcy. I also think Fleet service actually has more solidarity and has a chance to get more than what the mechanics received. At any rate, fleet service isn't compelled to accept anything unless it is fair.

Further, by using your reasoning, fleet should be ahead of CWA anyways since the upstairs didn't vote in union until 5 years after fleet service.

At any rate, $20 and increased benefits is fair when comparing what the company just afforded the mechanics. It is also fair when comparing the industry standards [see WN, AA, CO]. Even at bankrupt airlines like UA and NW who are both represented by the IAM have much better deals.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Continental is non union and their wages can change overnight plus they do not have the IAM pension plan. However, I will have you know that the wages at Northwest are below $19. Definately lower than your self proclaimed idea of fairness starting at $20. Like I said, something between $19 and $20 plus some snapbacks on the front end is what I would anticipate for fleet service.
I've been to a number of stations over the past month and I will agree that our fleet service members are solid and that your company will have to propose something significantly better than the tentative that was rejected. I also want to clarify something I said in February. I thought fleet service would have been wise to accept the company's offer this past September, however, I will agree with you at this point that fleet service is entitled to more than that last tentative. The increased leverage is a direct result of M & A activity that has occured between then and now. Our tentative mechanic agreement also reflects this.
Don't be hard and fast with $20. Something between $19-$20, snapbacks on the front end, and preserving the positions for those in the west contract.

I do like your comments about grandfathering the west. Perhaps that's a solution that your negotiations may have to consider.

 

[pit_till_death]

When you compare apples with apples, you'll come to the conclusion that something between $19-$20 is more in line than your interpretation that justice means something over $20.

C'mon District,

Enough is enough. You have non-union employees, (insert crew schedulers), who are "unskilled workers" just like fleet, who are making over $22/hr, who never even took a cut through 2 bankrupcies, and they are working one wall away from CLP agents (who are considered fleet) who took a beating making $17 and change/hr. It's time to get ours.

 

[pjirish317]

Tim,
I know you disagree with this but our mechanics have been members of our union for decades and deserve to gain a greater percentage of their past sacrifices based on the craft's history on this property. I also think your company feels the same way when I compare what they offered fleet service and what they offered our mechanic members. I think if you want to compare crafts then a better fit might be to compare fleet service with the CWA members. When you compare apples with apples, you'll come to the conclusion that something between $19-$20 is more in line than your interpretation that justice means something over $20.

df,

According to you, by your statement, it is the same as saying that women today can't vote due to the fact that they did not sacrifice as much as the women that came before them did. I think that those that came before us faught for gains that everybody should share in. Is that not the basic principal here. To say that one made more sacrifices, or was in the union longer is pure BS. All we are asking for is the same % wage increase, not the same wage. Also correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the union was supposed to fight fairly for all of its members, not just 1 group as you imply here. The union should be trying to get that and more, not settle for less. And you question our motives as to why we want to change the leadership of DL141. Come on. Open your eyes to what the members want, not what the IAM wants the members to get. Fight for us not against us.
One more question, Exactly how long do we have to be members of the I'LL ASK MANAGEMENT, to expect you guys yo fight "extra hard"for us?

 

[700UW]

Pilots, FAs, CSAs, Rampers, M&R never get the same amount of % raises, you have to compare apples to apples, not oranges.

Just look at the profit sharing pool it is based on what each group gave up, the pilots gave up the most, followed by Mechanic and Related.

Differant groups gave up differant amounts of money that is why each groups get backs will be differant.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Continental is non union and their wages can change overnight plus they do not have the IAM pension plan. However, I will have you know that the wages at Northwest are below $19. Definately lower than your self proclaimed idea of fairness starting at $20. Like I said, something between $19 and $20 plus some snapbacks on the front end is what I would anticipate for fleet service.
I've been to a number of stations over the past month and I will agree that our fleet service members are solid and that your company will have to propose something significantly better than the tentative that was rejected. I also want to clarify something I said in February. I thought fleet service would have been wise to accept the company's offer this past September, however, I will agree with you at this point that fleet service is entitled to more than that last tentative. The increased leverage is a direct result of M & A activity that has occured between then and now. Our tentative mechanic agreement also reflects this.
Don't be hard and fast with $20. Something between $19-$20, snapbacks on the front end, and preserving the positions for those in the west contract.

I do like your comments about grandfathering the west. Perhaps that's a solution that your negotiations may have to consider.

Interestingly enough, I just did a report on Northwest and Continental. As you said, Continental is non-union, however their wage and benefit package is incredibly more than the IAM's at US AIRWAYS. Continental fleet now makes $19.87hr and the company announced another 2% raise to be effective this July that will put them at $20.27. Leads make an extra $1.75. Thier profit sharing is 4x that of fleet service's at US AIRWAYS, full sick pay, and a better holiday/vacation schedule than fleet at US AIRWAYS. On top of that, I'm sure most USAIRWAYS fleet members would prefer a 401k that has better access to funds than the restrictive IAM pension plan.
At any rate, if Hemenway gave fleet the same wages and profit sharing as Continental, I'm sure fleet would jump on it!

Regarding NW, yes, NW is under $19 but even though it is a bankruptcy contract, NW ramp rats still get 6 weeks of vacation, company paid Long Term Disability, 75% sick pay, 7 holidays, full double time, and enhanced scope clauses where they still have ramp rats at 40 stations and 10 cargo facilities, and a better profit sharing plan, think also some stock but not sure about this one. That is an incredible amount more than ramp rats here. Even so, US AIRWAYS fleet service are in position to negotiate forwards as opposed to looking or modeling bankruptcy contracts signed at other carriers a few years ago.

The truth be told, US AIRWAYS fleet service are the industry "ROCK" bottom and I'm referring to the hubs. The second class stations and west stations are worse than 'bottom' they have actually been buried.

The biggest problem I have is that Randy Canale's own proposals will actually keep fleet service at the bottom of the industry. He isn't even asking for some of the things that the mechanics got, and what he is proposing are things that Hemenway didn't even ask for. I mean, our own negotiators asked for Hemenway to contract out 19 west stations in their initial proposal this past January. WTF?

Morons.....we got morons on our team!

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[NevadaHP]

Continental is non union and their wages can change overnight plus they do not have the IAM pension plan. However, I will have you know that the wages at Northwest are below $19. Definately lower than your self proclaimed idea of fairness starting at $20. Like I said, something between $19 and $20 plus some snapbacks on the front end is what I would anticipate for fleet service.
I've been to a number of stations over the past month and I will agree that our fleet service members are solid and that your company will have to propose something significantly better than the tentative that was rejected. I also want to clarify something I said in February. I thought fleet service would have been wise to accept the company's offer this past September, however, I will agree with you at this point that fleet service is entitled to more than that last tentative. The increased leverage is a direct result of M & A activity that has occured between then and now. Our tentative mechanic agreement also reflects this.
Don't be hard and fast with $20. Something between $19-$20, snapbacks on the front end, and preserving the positions for those in the west contract.

I do like your comments about grandfathering the west. Perhaps that's a solution that your negotiations may have to consider.

df, would you please elaborate a little on what you mean regarding grandfathering the west?

 

[b737200]

Continental is non union and their wages can change overnight plus they do not have the IAM pension plan. However, I will have you know that the wages at Northwest are below $19. Definately lower than your self proclaimed idea of fairness starting at $20. Like I said, something between $19 and $20 plus some snapbacks on the front end is what I would anticipate for fleet service.
I've been to a number of stations over the past month and I will agree that our fleet service members are solid and that your company will have to propose something significantly better than the tentative that was rejected. I also want to clarify something I said in February. I thought fleet service would have been wise to accept the company's offer this past September, however, I will agree with you at this point that fleet service is entitled to more than that last tentative. The increased leverage is a direct result of M & A activity that has occured between then and now. Our tentative mechanic agreement also reflects this.
Don't be hard and fast with $20. Something between $19-$20, snapbacks on the front end, and preserving the positions for those in the west contract.

I do like your comments about grandfathering the west. Perhaps that's a solution that your negotiations may have to consider.

Glad to see your eyes have finally opened up..........you were one of the ones willing to sell us
out short. I do believe though, that if the snap backs come in 0-11, then that's when al get's the
coc. If we wait , al waits. al get's a snap back too. Your support for fleet now, still falls
upon deaf ears, if a siutable t/a come back, cheap suites still has to go, along with the agc's
whom have disrespected the fleet. Great pain will be inflicted in June, and should send a message
to the others whom aren't up for re-election. Serve the membership and not yourself.
With closing, the only reason you will retain a job is because you are at the int'l level.
You have disrespected the fleet in such a way, how do you look at yourself in the mirror each morning.

 

[orioleman]

district force,
"I couldn't agree more with your opinion. Fleet service are not mechanics and it is foolish to expect that fleet service is entitled to the same type of wage boost that our mechanics just received in their tentative agreement"


the really sad thing about this comment you made.. Is being an officer of the IAM and having the B*lls to make such a PRO MANAGEMENT statement.

What would be your rationale for Fleet NOT deserving of the same % increase.. Please Tom please give us your genius view on that...

It's people like you that have turned people off to unions cause once you get your cushy VP job and 6 figures You feel entitled to look down on the ranks that you came from

even though you were once a lowly mtc.

 

[Tim Nelson]

df, would you please elaborate a little on what you mean regarding grandfathering the west?

DF was referring to a 'solution' I mentioned earlier for our negotiators to consider. To be sure, I think we should keep a hard line since keeping fleet members in these 19 stations is actually profiting the company. But I've seen Boss Canale negotiate 4 contracts and in each case he has shown that he is inept at negotiations and can only get something if it throws in the store. Canale has created a real mess and since his leadership, fleet has went from over 80 stations to now only 11. I count the second class stations [another 15] as contracted out but IAM stations.

My mentioning of 'grandfather rights' was in anticipation of Randy Canale's resolve to eliminate more US AIRWAYS fleet service workers in his apparent unending attempt to bring down the US AIRWAYS numbers for DL141 political gain. My mentioning of this was towards the negotiations team, as to give them some 'ideas' or 'solutions' when both Hemenway and Canale gang up on them and say those 19 stations must go!

At any rate, grandfather rights would recognize those 19 stations as 'transition stations' where those workers who work there are protected but as they leave, transfer, retire, quit or die, they are replaced by subcontractors. This isn't original. I cut and pasted from the NW contract of 1993 below.
“…at those stations..., it is intended that those fleet service workers and leads...will remain employees of NWA under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement and shall be given preference over non-NWA employees for work schedules, bid and dat vacation, overtime, and holidays.

At a transition station, no IAM-represented employee on active payroll status [both full and part time] or on leave of absence shall be placed in off-payroll status as a result of his/her layoff by the company from his/her classification at the transition station for as long as NW or aircraft operated as an NWA airlink carrier transition station. No IAM employee may bid to a transition station, as the company shall have the right to backfill vacancies that occur by retirement, resignation, death, or voluntary transfer, by transferring the work to the NWA airlink carrier or outside vendor.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago