IAM Fleet Service Thread 3/7-3/14

[roabilly]

That is good to know as he is THE most anti-west of all posters on this forum...

Rat...sorry to ruffle your feathers in my earlier post, but it is true though, why are we paying dues to IAM? It really begs the question. Glad you are supportive of the west, but I read through many of these posts and it is clear many do not support the west, so it is difficult to be supportive of the IAM in many instances, when some folks in the membership clearly do not want us westies. The sad part is the rank and file of the west is grouped into the anger and frustration of the east and it is NOT the rank and file that merits that frustration. The Sand Castle merits the anger and frustration, and they merit my own, too.

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Chucker…

I understand yer frustration…

Please keep in mind, tha East Fleet is not against tha West Fleet.

I know ahh lot ah good union people here in CLT…‘n I ain't never even heard that brought up in any conversation.

It’s absolutely essential, that this Fleet group be united in solidarity! That is our only strength!

Have you ever heard tha term.... “Divide and Conquer�

Our boy... Parker is sittin’ on tha side lines watchin’..‘n enjoyin’.. this internal… member against member struggle, while doin’ as he so pleases! To him, it’s like watchin’ a bar fight from ah safe distance… that he started!

This division, is observable in the Pilot group as well…look what tha animosity between East ‘n West did to them. They are now getting ready tah have an election that could drop their Union, ALPA altogether.

My advice is this…The IAM is our Union, like it or not… we are doin’ everything in our power to make it ahh better Union through democracy. That is why Mr. Nelson has devoted so much effort ‘n time intah changin’ tha upper echelons of tha IAM.

Which incidentally… is our democratic right!

Vote New Direction!

 

[roabilly]

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN!!!!!!

I have said this before and will say it as many times as necessary.

700 Does not work for US anymore. Has not done so for a number of years. Was never Fleet. Was actually utility(aircraft
cleaner and stock clerk). Does not represent the East fleet service attitude and is not our spokesman and will never be so. His attitude does not reflect how we feel towards the fleet service in the west. I am tired of the implication and the false representation that is constantly presented.

This may get me the cornfield but needs to be told and brought out in the open again.

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I hear yahh Nuff …

I watched this forum for over ahh year… before decidin’ tah become ahh poster.

I developed pretty good ideas as to tha characteristics, and motive’s of all tha various long term posters.

As you can tell… I ain’t crazy ‘bout these “Non Fleet Service†posters comin’ intah our forum. Generally… they ain’t in here tah do anything but disrupt…dissuade…’n distract!

I ask that all Fleet Members be aware… ‘n beware of these people.

If you spend any time in here at all… you know who they are.

 

[Tim Nelson]

That is good to know as he is THE most anti-west of all posters on this forum...

Rat...sorry to ruffle your feathers in my earlier post, but it is true though, why are we paying dues to IAM? It really begs the question. Glad you are supportive of the west, but I read through many of these posts and it is clear many do not support the west, so it is difficult to be supportive of the IAM in many instances, when some folks in the membership clearly do not want us westies. The sad part is the rank and file of the west is grouped into the anger and frustration of the east and it is NOT the rank and file that merits that frustration. The Sand Castle merits the anger and frustration, and they merit my own, too.

I'm not sure if we'd call it 'east supporting west', or even 'west should support east'. What's important is that we all support an equitable contract and have our eyes on that. If all of us are looking forward towards that instead of backwards then we will continue our great solidarity. We've been solid for 6 months now. The DL and company have been put on notice, no more goofy T/A's.

regards,

Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Jester]

""Then stop taking IAM union dues from us if you are so anti-west. Every pay check stub I get has IAM union dues taken out, not TWU. So, perhaps you can understand the alienation the west has from not only the company now, but the union, too! Trust me it sucks... try filing a grievance when you are in this position... language from your former contract supports one side, while the people who are now in place to administer it seem to sweep things under the rug, thus no real support when it comes to trying to stand strong on issues and rules that arise....""
[/quote]


Bagchucker,

You are absolutely correct. I would add that IAM does not care about West, and East does not care about West except as how it benefits them. If IAM cared about West, they would push for Section 6. East only cares about West because they too want a pay raise and willing to use the Section 6 leverage of the West to get something for themselves.

I assure you that if East had the "Glory Years" contract from a decade ago, the Easties in here wouldn't post anything and Tim wouldn't be stirring the pot. While I am sure Tim would vociferously disagree with me, but consider his many posts over several threads whereby he thought that West should not be allowed the opportunity to vote on the existing IAM CBA alone without East voting, as well. Why should the East vote on the matter as it pertains solely to West? East has a valid contract for two more years. It is quite simple, East will use the West for its advantage and if West agrees alone to the existing East CBA, then they lose their leverage for two more years. We are nothing more than pawns for the East to play contrary to all the cheerleading of unity on this board. I seriously question that if West was to strike after Section 6, the East guys wouldn't honor the picket line or do the West flights as this is would be an opportunity to recall Easties who were furloughed. I have little doubt the East would love to do a bump and flush on West stations the first chance they can get too if we ever become one work group.

Sorry Easties as cut-throat as you have been towards West and the TWU, I don't put anything past you all. Unfortunately, West vote doesn't mean squat so long as the East hubs dominate all of the West and the East outstations in terms of voting numbers so it is a waste of time to even show up to vote on issues and the IAM leadership knows these numbers too.

So Divides Jester.

 

[mike33]

""Then stop taking IAM union dues from us if you are so anti-west. Every pay check stub I get has IAM union dues taken out, not TWU. So, perhaps you can understand the alienation the west has from not only the company now, but the union, too! Trust me it sucks... try filing a grievance when you are in this position... language from your former contract supports one side, while the people who are now in place to administer it seem to sweep things under the rug, thus no real support when it comes to trying to stand strong on issues and rules that arise....""



Bagchucker,

You are absolutely correct. I would add that IAM does not care about West, and East does not care about West except as how it benefits them. If IAM cared about West, they would push for Section 6. East only cares about West because they too want a pay raise and willing to use the Section 6 leverage of the West to get something for themselves.

I assure you that if East had the "Glory Years" contract from a decade ago, the Easties in here wouldn't post anything and Tim wouldn't be stirring the pot. While I am sure Tim would vociferously disagree with me, but consider his many posts over several threads whereby he thought that West should not be allowed the opportunity to vote on the existing IAM CBA alone without East voting, as well. Why should the East vote on the matter as it pertains solely to West? East has a valid contract for two more years. It is quite simple, East will use the West for its advantage and if West agrees alone to the existing East CBA, then they lose their leverage for two more years. We are nothing more than pawns for the East to play contrary to all the cheerleading of unity on this board. I seriously question that if West was to strike after Section 6, the East guys wouldn't honor the picket line or do the West flights as this is would be an opportunity to recall Easties who were furloughed. I have little doubt the East would love to do a bump and flush on West stations the first chance they can get too if we ever become one work group.

Sorry Easties as cut-throat as you have been towards West and the TWU, I don't put anything past you all. Unfortunately, West vote doesn't mean squat so long as the East hubs dominate all of the West and the East outstations in terms of voting numbers so it is a waste of time to even show up to vote on issues and the IAM leadership knows these numbers too.

So Divides Jester.

Jester

I assure you that if East had the "Glory Years" contract from a decade ago, the Easties in here wouldn't post anything and Tim wouldn't be stirring the pot. While I am sure Tim would vociferously disagree with me, but consider his many posts over several threads whereby he thought that West should not be allowed the opportunity to vote on the existing IAM CBA alone without East voting, as well. Why should the East vote on the matter as it pertains solely to West?

The thoughts behind that, if true, are because the west couldn't carry a vote alone to protect the Field stations. You would sell out the Field stations. Don't you understand, that we " Easties in here" are trying to change that with this election?, and a decent T/A?

East has a valid contract for two more years. It is quite simple, East will use the West for its advantage and if West agrees alone to the existing East CBA, then they lose their leverage for two more years. We are nothing more than pawns for the East to play contrary to all the cheerleading of unity on this board.

Jester, where do you put the company in here. Do you think the compnay has no part in this. They know exactly where the west stands in a " vote alone " process.

I seriously question that if West was to strike after Section 6, the East guys wouldn't honor the picket line or do the West flights as this is would be an opportunity to recall Easties who were furloughed.

Give me a break. The time line for a strike would be over a year away..The furloughed east recall would be up and they would not be intitled to be called back. That scenario doesn't hold water.

I have little doubt the East would love to do a bump and flush on West stations the first chance they can get too if we ever become one work group.

How is that possible. If we were one group there is a process involved and the CBA has no " bumping ". The only " FLUSH " would be your vote to allow the company to outsource.


Unfortunately, West vote doesn't mean squat so long as the East hubs dominate all of the West and the East outstations in terms of voting numbers so it is a waste of time to even show up to vote on issues and the IAM leadership knows these numbers too.

So Divides Jester.

Yes you are a divider. Our lack of people turning out to vote is the reason we are in this position. A large % of the west doesn't care. You should be Persuading instead of Dissuading

 

[Jester]

Hey Fuzzy

If you allow this to happen then you'll just be one of those guys and the cycle will never change. I'm in one those stations and I have 33 yrs, so move over. Your sorry wish might come true. I might be coming to take your shift.

Mike,

How ironic that you should respond by posting, "How is that possible. If we were one group there is a process involved and the CBA has no ' bumping '. The only ' FLUSH ' would be your vote to allow the company to outsource," when you threatened to do it yourself? It isn't possible, but yet threatened to do it? I couldn't make this stuff up.

Furthermore on your additional points, for all the chest pounding of solidarity, I have little doubt in my mind that if a TA was presented with $25/hour, East hubs would sell out every outstation and West station and the IAM would be the Easties' best friend as the overwhelming number votes would reside the in few East hubs. If you recall, the TWU made that a major point while campaigning for East support, and you saw where that got them... a trip to the Emergency Room.

However, more interesting was your deflection and parrying of other issues in an attempt to distract. Who said that I was defending the company's actions? You downplay the possibility of East being recalled even though it has been a hot topic on the board and a major outstanding issue? A strike would be a year away while ignoring what would have been (and still can be) the outcome if Boss Canale pushed the Section 6, while you play coy on the matter? This comment might get me a one way trip to the cornfield, but those aforementioned areas you listed would be intellectually dishonest on your part given the false attributions and deliberate vagueness.

Calls for persuading West are meaningless until West is recognized as an equal in this relationship instead of a toady waterboy to the East agenda, otherwise I will continue to eristically point out the hypocrisy of East cheerleading "unity".

So Deems Jester.

 

[mike33]

​

Mike,

How ironic that you should respond by posting, "How is that possible. If we were one group there is a process involved and the CBA has no ' bumping '. The only ' FLUSH ' would be your vote to allow the company to outsource," when you threatened to do it yourself? It isn't possible, but yet threatened to do it? I couldn't make this stuff up.

Furthermore on your additional points, for all the chest pounding of solidarity, I have little doubt in my mind that if a TA was presented with $25/hour, East hubs would sell out every outstation and West station and the IAM would be the Easties' best friend as the overwhelming number votes would reside the in few East hubs. If you recall, the TWU made that a major point while campaigning for East support, and you saw where that got them... a trip to the Emergency Room.

However, more interesting was your deflection and parrying of other issues in an attempt to distract. Who said that I was defending the company's actions? You downplay the possibility of East being recalled even though it has been a hot topic on the board and a major outstanding issue? A strike would be a year away while ignoring what would have been (and still can be) the outcome if Boss Canale pushed the Section 6, while you play coy on the matter? This comment might get me a one way trip to the cornfield, but those aforementioned areas you listed would be intellectually dishonest on your part given the false attributions and deliberate vagueness.

Calls for persuading West are meaningless until West is recognized as an equal in this relationship instead of a toady waterboy to the East agenda, otherwise I will continue to eristically point out the hypocrisy of East cheerleading "unity".

So Deems Jester.

Get over it Jester. Read the CBA. It can't happen that way. You would have to go where there's an opening, (unless you got recalled to your own station),
which would be undersireable to most. As for the threat, it wouldn't happen that way. It was a "opening" scenario not a " Bumping " scenario, bad example and I do appologize to Henderfuzz.

As for you. Half the time I don't know where ur coming from.

I'm not going to sit here and educate you on the CBA. Im sure there is a copy of one somewhere for you to read. Go on line and print one out. All 250 pages.

I'm beginning to think that you are insecure within yourself! Don't inflate your remarks as possibly requiring a trip to the cornfield. You overestimate yourself. I think the "West" is recognized, but I can't make you believe that. You have to want to! You have to vote when the time comes. And It Will!

 

[orioleman]

jester,
YOU have no unity. the reason the east is strong is because. to us this was a career . to the west it's a part time job

with some flying benefits. If you had an election today and one 6 months from now half of your membership won't even be around

to vote because they moved on to greener pastures. So in that respect NO your yes vote today isn't going to represent the person

who voted it in becuase they will be gone. As far as East honoring west strike. I realize your not of union mentality and loyalty

so I wouldn't expect you to understand. But since the east understands strikes and honoring picket lines YES we would honor a strike

That's one of the few benefits we have in our contract. You want to sell your self short . go for it. but don't try and pass your

pro management and it's the best you'll ever get crap over on US.

As far as bumping . IF there's an opening then it is filled by seniority and since Mike got about 8 more years then fuzz

if he wants to move to DFW and root for the Cowboys . when a opening comes available He has the seniority to do.

 

[The Janitor]

Yes you are a divider. Our lack of people turning out to vote is the reason we are in this position. A large % of the west doesn't care. You should be Persuading instead of Dissuading

Mike,

I've enjoyed reading your writings and I appreciate the time you have spent using the language of solidarity. It's good to see fleet service so solid, when I was fleet service I never saw it like this.
And it's amazing with how the pilots are so divided, that fleet service is the exact opposite.

Don't waste your time with management types like Jester and henderfuzz who are only trying to fan division. If I remember correctly, both advocated that last rag and sold out the west. Any true unionist would never vote for that last contract, let alone be proud of it and say so here.

I've been out of the loop but I'm hearing good things about Las Vegas and the rest of the west stations. PHX has unresolved issues and seems unresponsive to solidarity due to what I hear is a glaring lack of leadership but it doesn't control the east and it no longer controls the rest of the west. I'm not going to go into details but IMO RR from PHX and JM from LAS both were the biggest supporters for screwing the west over in that last contract that would have cost west jobs and benefits. RR was rewarded by Randy Canale since he had the character needed to be on Randy's ticket.

 

[roabilly]

Welcome back… Mr. Jester…

Correct me if I’m wrong… but do I detect a little animosity frum yahh toward tha EAST…simply cuz that’s where tha majority of tha Major Hubs are …‘n hence tha majority of our IAM membership is located?

Jester…you know, I consider yah as an intelligent…open minded individual that recognizes the nomenclature of how democracy functions in this country.

Like it or not… the only other alternative is dictatorship!

The forefathers of this country based everything on democracy… and that is whut we still employ today, to decide the outcome of everything frum Union votes tah our Presidential Elections.

I myself… used thah work in ahh small station. In tha mid 1980’s… I began tah realize, that demographic trends in this industry were goin’ tahh “chip away†at tha smaller stations.

(To explain these “demographic trends†would require another forum.)

Anyway… after recognizin’ these trends, me ‘n Ms. Roabilly decided tah relocate tah CLT. Our reasonin’ was that my job security would be enhanced, due tah circumstances afore mentioned.

Jester… I still have friends that used tah be my coworkers, who chose tah stay in tha small station we worked in.

Consequently… my friends are no longer employed with LCC.

Some are doin’ relatively well…others not. It was a decision that had thah be made… that’s why… I’m still here, with almost 30 years with tha Company…able thahh correspond with you… and others concernin’ our current circumstances, and plight.

Please consider tha entire aggregate in terms of tha composition of this membership…

We are many, and diverse in geography, philosophy… as well as way of life… but one common thread runs through us all…and that is… we are in this thing together as long as we work for this company.

 

[blownkneesbob]

I have a question for jester by chance were you one of the supporters for another union . It seems obvious that you dislike the IAM
and that is fine but what have you done to try and fix the problem . just curious you seem very opinionated so was trying to figure
out your credentials

 

[orioleman]

Roa and blown ,
don't waste your time with jester the pester .. If he won the powerball . he would complain about the taxes

and having to move . He just likes to come on hear and try and talk down to others because we chose this career and apparently

he didn't and I think he is miserable for the chooses he's had to make.

so my advice is to just let him stew.

 

[roabilly]

Roa and blown ,
don't waste your time with jester the pester .. If he won the powerball . he would complain about the taxes

and having to move . He just likes to come on hear and try and talk down to others because we chose this career and apparently

he didn't and I think he is miserable for the chooses he's had to make.

so my advice is to just let him stew.

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Hear yahh Orio...

I still think .... way deep down.... Jester is one ahh us !

Ahh disgruntled.... displaced Southern Boy !

 

[orioleman]

Roa,
If he is ONE of US then I want to be one of THEM

 

[mike33]

Mike,

Furthermore on your additional points, for all the chest pounding of solidarity, I have little doubt in my mind that if a TA was presented with $25/hour, East hubs would sell out every outstation and West station and the IAM would be the Easties' best friend as the overwhelming number votes would reside the in few East hubs.
However, more interesting was your deflection and parrying of other issues in an attempt to distract. Who said that I was defending the company's actions? You downplay the possibility of East being recalled even though it has been a hot topic on the board and a major outstanding issue?

"Furthermore on your additional points, for all the chest pounding of solidarity, I have little doubt in my mind that if a TA was presented with $25/hour, East hubs would sell out every outstation and West station and the IAM would be the Easties' best friend as the overwhelming number votes would reside the in few East hubs. "

If that were a possibillity then other things in the TA would have to change drastically. "Foolish thoughts will not your thinking become rightsized."

Who said that I was defending the company's actions?

Nobody, but your not highlighting the companys' inactions. Are you?


"You downplay the possibility of East being recalled even though it has been a hot topic on the board and a major outstanding issue?"

I don't downplay anything. I think in terms of mostly fact and the fact of the matter is, that the furloughed have no position to be recalled to, because the West Management was very busy hiring off the street to take their jobs in stations, where America West was basically the contractor, instead of recalling the " Membership " with full pay and full seniority. You Jester are protected by that scenario whether you know it or not.