IAM Fleet Service Thread 3/7-3/14

[Tim Nelson]

A noticeable difference in having your out stations outsourced is . Used to be a flight could leave the hub city 15 to 20 late.

which allowed the hub to make all connections and get there bags. that flight would go upline where the station would take that

late inbd and turn it quick to get it back on schd and back to the hub ontime.. Now fast forward to contract work.. Those cats could

care less if the flt is late in or out . IT'S JUST A 9.00 dollar JOB.. No owenership NO pride NO care.. thus now you have blown the

chance to get the airline back on time.. Hmmmmm maybe instead of turning tricks make a permanent fix and put people in those

places that actually care about the company they work for........

I bet O.T and MBRS would drop drasticatly

just a thought

O'man, this is how you get on top of a page.

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Am I the only one outraged that Section 6 is being thrown around now?

Surely there are precedents for us to go in as well if the pilots are successful. What is it about our spineless union that prevented us from doing this? I asked RR why we didn't and he said we didn't have a leg to stand on. I agree Tim: he's either ignorant or selling out.

Why do the pilots feel differently? Why do they think they can be successful?

Will this be a good time for fleet service to step up its efforts as well?

Is there a possibilty of a strike for the pilots eventually? After the 30 day waiting period?

My roomate tells me that the president can order them back to work if they strike. Is that true as well?

What are WE going to do now? I say we MAKE the union push for section 6 or we all stop paying dues!

 

[orioleman]

D*mn you Nelson Always have to be on top of everything

 

[necigrad]

I'm going to guess that the AWA pilots have realised that the transition isn't going nowhere, so there's no reason to not do Section 6. ALPA can't get their workgroup all to the table, so a TA isn't possible. The West pilots know that there's no point in waiting.

 

[AluminumEnemaTime]

I'm going to guess that the AWA pilots have realised that the transition isn't going nowhere, so there's no reason to not do Section 6. ALPA can't get their workgroup all to the table, so a TA isn't possible. The West pilots know that there's no point in waiting.

The pilots are having a representaion vote between ALPA and the USAPA. The company aint going to negotiate with anyone until after the outcome of their representation vote, I think the results are April 17th at 2 pm.

Good luck again boys!

 

[The Janitor]

Am I the only one outraged that Section 6 is being thrown around now?

Surely there are precedents for us to go in as well if the pilots are successful. What is it about our spineless union that prevented us from doing this? I asked RR why we didn't and he said we didn't have a leg to stand on. I agree Tim: he's either ignorant or selling out.

Why do the pilots feel differently? Why do they think they can be successful?

Will this be a good time for fleet service to step up its efforts as well?

Is there a possibilty of a strike for the pilots eventually? After the 30 day waiting period?

My roomate tells me that the president can order them back to work if they strike. Is that true as well?

What are WE going to do now? I say we MAKE the union push for section 6 or we all stop paying dues!

Nelson shared with me his attorney's name. He is known as the best and has won DFR's against ALPA and other unions. He's quite a busy man but if you're going to go with an attorney, this guy is the guy if you can raise the funds.
Nelson's right about all this and now the unions are realizing this after about 2 years of wasted time. Randy Canale decided to appease Hemenway with his helping hand agreement and to look the other way from section 6. Once Tim's attorney gives the ok, I'm sure Timmy will be on it. But whether it is a DFR or not, Randy should be positioning fleet service for section 6 on the west. Randy's a brighter guy than most of you guys think and he knows all the angles but US AIRWAYS fleet service has never been his priority. With ALPA's section 6 filing, he can not longer get away with his BS to the west and he can no longer say Nelson doesn't know what he's talking about. There's a reason why he likes sitting on the United Airline Board but the solidarity of fleet service is forcing him to stop his BS and his endless devotion to his constant appeasing of US AIRWAYS management. Keep the pressure on his butt.

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Thanks for that Janitor. But my question is what happens when we get the attorney involved. Will he be forcing the union to do something, or will it be a whole entity altogether?

I don't want those half-wits of the IAM doing this, they don't have any fight in em!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Thanks for that Janitor. But my question is what happens when we get the attorney involved. Will he be forcing the union to do something, or will it be a whole entity altogether?

I don't want those half-wits of the IAM doing this, they don't have any fight in em!

If the case has merit for a DFR then I would presume the IAM would be wise enough to restart the section 6. This guy isn't going to take the case if he doesn't think there is a DFR. Presuming this is a DFR and Boss Canale, and those representatives from the west, understands the severity of possible damages, my presumption is the IAM actions will change and Boss will restart section 6 as opposed to just playing his B### S### games.

Alot of this has to do with timing and disclosures that happened and didn't happen. If the case has merit then I'm not sure of damages to the west but at least it will be a way to force Randy Canale to finally represent you. Again, I'm not an attorney but when the attorney finishes his review, there will be a posting on here.

At any rate, I would anticipate DL 141 going back into negotiations sometime after the DL142 vote. I'd say you can look for sometime around April 1st since the company needs to get a transition quick. I'm not a prophet but check the IAM 141 website for update. Again, with the M & R deal, I would presume that Hemenway would want to clean up his proposal to fleet and do it rather quickly do to oil prices and the upcoming industry consolidation. Mark my words.

Just makes 'good sense'.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[bagchucker]

I can agree to some of what you say about the professionanilsm of our group and I do think we are.
I also remember way back when in the 80s when Eastern was still around and how they kept insisting on certain issiues and look what that got them. Now Im not saying we are in that situation yet but we are close.
Look I want everyone who can possible have a job and stay where they are to do just that.
I just think your numbers of how many is not that accurate. I believe you said it was 1000 the last time now its 1200. Which is it? I actually think its closer to 600 to 800.
I also dont feel that stations such as DEN or SAN and even MCI should be the ones that should be looked at, those are money making stations, in fact I never understood why the east ever farmed out DEN. Thats why I say lets make make some compromises and go back to the table and see what happens. We do ourselves no good as long as we stay away.
If it takes our NC 6 days in a row to hammer out something than do it.

As an employee that works at a small station that was named in the last T.A. as one to get axed, I would like to offer my arguement. FWIW... the station I work at is unique. We handle USAirways mainline flts, Mesa RJ's, AND do the ramp work for 3 other carriers. So, in a sense, we are the company that has outsourced someone else. We earn our "beloved" UsAirways extra revenue (quite a bit actually) for peanuts on the dollar. We outbid the other company on the property that does contract ramp work. So, lets look at this objectively for the purpose of understanding all the relevant aspects of outsourced work.

Hire a company such as Servisair, ATS, Ogden (now Menzies), Worldwide, DGS etc... and pay them a decent wage but no flt. benefits and crummy health bennies. Any pride in the carrier they are providing service for? Nope.

Use our own company to do the work. We ALREADY make bottom dollar, so where is the substantial savings to outsource the work? All the GSE that is required to support the ops, and the monthly repair bills and fuel cost is one thing. I have seen the monthly repair bills for our station alone, and it is quite an expense actually. All the overtime necessary to fill the vacant lines, because we don't pay enough on an entry level basis to keep anyone. The people we are hiring for $9.00 an hour don't take pride and aren't being trained right either! Recently, new hires coming back from training in PHX are telling us that they aren't setting foot on the ramp!! WTF?!?! A week of classroom only?? Why even go to PHX for a week to learn "the ramp" Hell...we have all the videos for recurrent, watch them here and save 'em the trip...c'mon.

Anyway, my point is that there are many variables to keeping an outstation "in-house" or "out-sourced" I guess, one needs to weigh each variable against the revenue generated from each station to determine where there is revenue to make it worth it to keep the work "in-house."

My own personal opinion is (and I have stated this in previous posts) that any union with clout will FIGHT to keep the jobs of its members AT ANY COST. It is a shame that so many outstations on the EAST were thrown to the curb during BK. WE are not in BK now, and the mere thought of removal of stations is bothersome to many out here as it isn't warranted. If the company needs Fleet sacrifice, take my holiday pay, but don't take my JOB for pete's sake! If the S**t hits the fan, I'll head to a station where my job security is better.

 

[freedom]

You make a very good point about AWA many times being the outsourcer to other airlines , and I might say we usually do a damn good job servicing other people’s contracts … it was about time a field station person brought up that fact .

Perhaps if management took the time to do a cost analysis and had a good long look at how much their making when we do not only our own flights but other airlines as well , they might not be so quick to drop the field stations .

One thing is for certain , for every station we outsource we can expect our on time arrivals and baggage performance to drop . I know this because I’ve seen service air in action with my own eyes , and they just suck , I mean they literally suck .

 

[Tim Nelson]

As an employee that works at a small station that was named in the last T.A. as one to get axed, I would like to offer my arguement. FWIW... the station I work at is unique. We handle USAirways mainline flts, Mesa RJ's, AND do the ramp work for 3 other carriers. So, in a sense, we are the company that has outsourced someone else. We earn our "beloved" UsAirways extra revenue (quite a bit actually) for peanuts on the dollar. We outbid the other company on the property that does contract ramp work. So, lets look at this objectively for the purpose of understanding all the relevant aspects of outsourced work.

Hire a company such as Servisair, ATS, Ogden (now Menzies), Worldwide, DGS etc... and pay them a decent wage but no flt. benefits and crummy health bennies. Any pride in the carrier they are providing service for? Nope.

Use our own company to do the work. We ALREADY make bottom dollar, so where is the substantial savings to outsource the work? All the GSE that is required to support the ops, and the monthly repair bills and fuel cost is one thing. I have seen the monthly repair bills for our station alone, and it is quite an expense actually. All the overtime necessary to fill the vacant lines, because we don't pay enough on an entry level basis to keep anyone. The people we are hiring for $9.00 an hour don't take pride and aren't being trained right either! Recently, new hires coming back from training in PHX are telling us that they aren't setting foot on the ramp!! WTF?!?! A week of classroom only?? Why even go to PHX for a week to learn "the ramp" Hell...we have all the videos for recurrent, watch them here and save 'em the trip...c'mon.

Anyway, my point is that there are many variables to keeping an outstation "in-house" or "out-sourced" I guess, one needs to weigh each variable against the revenue generated from each station to determine where there is revenue to make it worth it to keep the work "in-house."

My own personal opinion is (and I have stated this in previous posts) that any union with clout will FIGHT to keep the jobs of its members AT ANY COST. It is a shame that so many outstations on the EAST were thrown to the curb during BK. WE are not in BK now, and the mere thought of removal of stations is bothersome to many out here as it isn't warranted. If the company needs Fleet sacrifice, take my holiday pay, but don't take my JOB for pete's sake! If the S**t hits the fan, I'll head to a station where my job security is better.

One thing to note, PHX would become quite a 'senior station' if PHX and RR decided to throw 19 stations under the bus again. I would say that perhaps half of PHX would lose their jobs do to those coming in with more seniority that have to go to the least senior station...which is PHX after all.
Again, look for Hemenway to come quickly back to the table to recommence negotiations since he needs a transition really bad now that oil is so high [see future merger]. I would anticipate something around April 1st since that is about the time when the mechanics will ratify their contract.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[freedom]

Tim I disagree with your slant on outside forces helping fleet service get a new TA .When is the last time we baggage handlers have ever gotten anything just handed to us ? I can’t recall … no we must FIGHT for every cent , in this world no one’s going to give you anything , you can’t count on the courts for SQUAT and you can’t live your life in the hopes that certain stars in the business world will align themselves and thereby save us . No we must save OURSELVES . Hemmingway must be brought back to the table because we have taken this company’s arm and twisted it behind it’s back to the snapping point . How many of our brothers and sisters are living in poverty everyday because of this company’s desire to save a buck at the expense of its hard working, honest ,dedicated employee’s ?


You don’t play nice with bullies , you FIGHT BACK .

 

[bagchucker]

One thing to note, PHX would become quite a 'senior station' if PHX and RR decided to throw 19 stations under the bus again. I would say that perhaps half of PHX would lose their jobs do to those coming in with more seniority that have to go to the least senior station...which is PHX after all.
Again, look for Hemenway to come quickly back to the table to recommence negotiations since he needs a transition really bad now that oil is so high [see future merger]. I would anticipate something around April 1st since that is about the time when the mechanics will ratify their contract.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

If outsourcing of West stations occurs eventually, then those of us that WANT to keep our job and CAN relocate, WILL. That means and influx of some senior people to the likes of PHX, LAS, LAX, SFO, SNA. So all of you junior posters on this board that aren't worried about outsourcing should be worried, because it will impact you down the road one way or another.... SO ... LET'S KEEP OUR RAMP WORK IN-HOUSE!!!! Oh... and once there is a combined contract, all the East guys that want West jobs will be moving, too, so the cushy job security you now have may be ousted, so be careful what you vote for when they present the next T.A.

 

[pjirish317]

I heard a rumor today about the company and the union negotiating again the first week in April. I think it was the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Anyone else heard this?



Oman, beat you to the top of the page! :bleh:

 

[WHISPERJETT]

If outsourcing of West stations occurs eventually, then those of us that WANT to keep our job and CAN relocate, WILL. That means and influx of some senior people to the likes of PHX, LAS, LAX, SFO, SNA. So all of you junior posters on this board that aren't worried about outsourcing should be worried, because it will impact you down the road one way or another.... SO ... LET'S KEEP OUR RAMP WORK IN-HOUSE!!!! Oh... and once there is a combined contract, all the East guys that want West jobs will be moving, too, so the cushy job security you now have may be ousted, so be careful what you vote for when they present the next T.A.

You Westies really need to think this out...A junior dayshifter in CLT, fyi has 20 plus years F/T..I would love to jump on that cushy moving crew job....SAT/SUN dayshift here I come.......