IAM Fleet Service Thread 3/7-3/14

[Tim Nelson]

Tim I disagree with your slant on outside forces helping fleet service get a new TA .When is the last time we baggage handlers have ever gotten anything just handed to us ? I can’t recall … no we must FIGHT for every cent , in this world no one’s going to give you anything , you can’t count on the courts for SQUAT and you can’t live your life in the hopes that certain stars in the business world will align themselves and thereby save us . No we must save OURSELVES . Hemmingway must be brought back to the table because we have taken this company’s arm and twisted it behind it’s back to the snapping point . How many of our brothers and sisters are living in poverty everyday because of this company’s desire to save a buck at the expense of its hard working, honest ,dedicated employee’s ?


You don’t play nice with bullies , you FIGHT BACK .

To be clear, the contract you will be voting on will be better than the september one, only because of our solidarity and nothing to do with courts. I anticipate this since IMO Hemenway will need a contract in a desperate fashion since oil is through the roof. If Hemenway doesn't rightly interpret the september mandate then it can't be done but I'm hopeful this time.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Black Magic]

Nobody in phx is going to loose their jobs if stations are outsourced. From what I know there has to be a position open on the ramp before someone can transfer over which is fine with me as there are always positions open with the revolving door of employees here.

You know this BS IAM union is nothing more than just a business that is only looking after its own interests, whatever happens or agreement is made is first and foremost going to benefit them.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nobody in phx is going to loose their jobs if stations are outsourced. From what I know there has to be a position open on the ramp before someone can transfer over which is fine with me as there are always positions open with the revolving door of employees here.

You know this BS IAM union is nothing more than just a business that is only looking after its own interests, whatever happens or agreement is made is first and foremost going to benefit them.

I heard the IAM AGC was trying to convince the PHX people that members from PHX will be protected because members from the outlying 19 stations and members from the east can't come to PHX if they are laid off unless there is a job opening. This is a 100% lie. The east contract is clear that anyone who is laid off has the opportunity to displace junior people throughout the system if there are no job openings. Junior people = PHX. Either way, if there are job openings in PHX or if not...expect high seniority from the 19 stations to dump there if PHX and RR had his way.
Bottom line, it's in the agreement and that's how it works.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nobody in phx is going to loose their jobs if stations are outsourced. From what I know there has to be a position open on the ramp before someone can transfer over which is fine with me as there are always positions open with the revolving door of employees here.

You know this BS IAM union is nothing more than just a business that is only looking after its own interests, whatever happens or agreement is made is first and foremost going to benefit them.

I do believe the hubs in clt and phl would sell out on all the class II stations and west fleet if they were offered $25 an hour.

$25hr, the east wouldn't have to. At any rate, last time, which station and which local leader tried to sell out the west for only $19hr? One thing you know, the east has no intention of selling you out for $19...it had the chance and it eliminated the PHX vote instead. PHX can no longer dominate the west as LAS and the other 19 stations are dialed strongly into the network.
PHX too is dialed in 10 fold better than before but it still needs a 'serious' amount of work.
$25 wouldn't be a sellout. 99% would vote for that and be willing to move if necessary.

regards,

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

If the case has merit for a DFR then I would presume the IAM would be wise enough to restart the section 6. This guy isn't going to take the case if he doesn't think there is a DFR. Presuming this is a DFR and Boss Canale, and those representatives from the west, understands the severity of possible damages, my presumption is the IAM actions will change and Boss will restart section 6 as opposed to just playing his B### S### games.

Alot of this has to do with timing and disclosures that happened and didn't happen. If the case has merit then I'm not sure of damages to the west but at least it will be a way to force Randy Canale to finally represent you. Again, I'm not an attorney but when the attorney finishes his review, there will be a posting on here.

At any rate, I would anticipate DL 141 going back into negotiations sometime after the DL142 vote. I'd say you can look for sometime around April 1st since the company needs to get a transition quick. I'm not a prophet but check the IAM 141 website for update. Again, with the M & R deal, I would presume that Hemenway would want to clean up his proposal to fleet and do it rather quickly do to oil prices and the upcoming industry consolidation. Mark my words.

Just makes 'good sense'.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

I agree my friend, it does make perfect legal sense!!! Thanks for your insight and not just your opinion. So to recap, the attorney is going through the contract that RR told me, personally, that there was no case for a section 6 on, and he will accept the case if there are any precedents or loopholes in the agreement that would allow the union to start section 6.

Now this sounds like leading a horse to water, but can you make him drink?

What if we get as far as being able to prove section 6 is possible, but the union resists even further. I'm sure they have good lawyers as well that will protect them from any kid of membership lawsuit. I'm sure your lawyer is considering that as well huh?

I think these are key questions that the membership needs to know if we are going to put our faith and our hard earned money into this venture. We want to know if this is kind of a grassroots effort like the card signing, or if its something stronger.

What happens IN section 6? What are our intentions when we enter it? Do we want to push for a strike ASAP? Or do we trust our leadership to get us an agressive agreement?

 

[Black Magic]

Tim, lie or not the IAM and the company will change that verbage in the contract just like they "hand pick" everything else they want to change about it.

You can't tell me with a strait face that the sept. TA was voted down was because of outsourcing language, its sad but that is the biggest joke. The real reason was because it was a cost nuetral lame duck for the east.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I agree my friend, it does make perfect legal sense!!! Thanks for your insight and not just your opinion. So to recap, the attorney is going through the contract that RR told me, personally, that there was no case for a section 6 on, and he will accept the case if there are any precedents or loopholes in the agreement that would allow the union to start section 6.

Now this sounds like leading a horse to water, but can you make him drink?

What if we get as far as being able to prove section 6 is possible, but the union resists even further. I'm sure they have good lawyers as well that will protect them from any kid of membership lawsuit. I'm sure your lawyer is considering that as well huh?

I think these are key questions that the membership needs to know if we are going to put our faith and our hard earned money into this venture. We want to know if this is kind of a grassroots effort like the card signing, or if its something stronger.

What happens IN section 6? What are our intentions when we enter it? Do we want to push for a strike ASAP? Or do we trust our leadership to get us an agressive agreement?

If this attorney says the case has merit, based on non disclosures, then it will go to Federal District court if there is the support from the west to do this. Hard earned $10 is what it will take provided there is mass agreement to part with a $10 bill [I think this is possible and many from the east would support it financially with a $10 or so].
At any rate, once the west gets led to the water and the groundwork of securing an attorney for you guys has been taken care of, the west will eventually have to drink the water.

What can be expected from a DFR? We're not talking about a get rich quick award. I'm not sure if there will be damages or if you can expect any type of monetary settlement. The drive for the DFR is only to force the IAM to enforce the west contract, which includes section 6. If the west doesn't think this is worthy then so be it. Therein lies the question. Certainly no east sider will donate a dime if the west participation isn't supportive of this idea. IMO, I think it benefits all, including the east. Remember, RR and the AGC's were saying there is no merit to section 6 and not to pay attention to the internet informational crowd. Today, ALPA west agreed with us. My hope is the IAM will also. The difference between ALPA and the IAM is that ALPA West has westies that represents it. With the IAM, you have appointed easties over you which have provided 'deep restrictions' over the voice of westies. But I've told you guys this, unfortunately, many continue to follow everyhing that RR sez. I know you have your own mind, but many will justify anything RR sez as gospel. Those have paid a terrible price and the west has been under 'great pain' because of it.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

The truth is in the numbers there, Magic. I agree. I hope we aren't foresaken when there's language that hurts the west.

And if any of us on the WEST are going to put up any money for this attorney, we better not get screwed!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, lie or not the IAM and the company will change that verbage in the contract just like they "hand pick" everything else they want to change about it.

You can't tell me with a strait face that the sept. TA was voted down was because of outsourcing language, its sad but that is the biggest joke. The real reason was because it was a cost nuetral lame duck for the east.

Agreed.
The last contract did not get voted down exclusively because of scope nor because of any other single item. It got voted down in 'totality'. This is exhibited further in our resolve for a fair agreement that is superior to the one offered in September. To this end, our negotiations team has made this clear with the company. If the company is listening then things will work out, if not then this company will have serious issues moving forward, specifically merging issues. Remember, the COC language is already known and is worth $21.43hr if there is a merger. Any investor will be 'deeply' concerned with that bitty item. Investors don't want to share profits either and they want space. That's why the company's 'sacreds' are the COC language, profit sharing, and 2 year extension. I think they can have all 3 with the right price provided they don't step on our sacreds which include $20hr, enhanced benefits, and better protections for current stations.

To be sure, I'm not speaking for all east siders, I may be a bit more moderate than most. Many will refuse to give up profit sharing and COC. I respect that and it is worthy but I think it can come with a fair price that will help facilitate things.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

The truth is in the numbers there, Magic. I agree. I hope we aren't foresaken when there's language that hurts the west.

And if any of us on the WEST are going to put up any money for this attorney, we better not get screwed!

Chill, nobody is going to get screwed over for $10bucks. If we can display the type of solidarity that I think exists for this, I think the retainer will be met. This isn't some fly by night attorney, he'll be in it to win. If there's a case and he loses then so be it, but nobody is screwing anyone. We're dealing with class people. Nobody is going to be pocketing the money, I'm sure all checks will be written to his firm and not individuals.

Let's also not lose focus of negotiations, which IMO, should be happening around the time the Mechanics ratify their agreement. We should hope they ratify it.
My guess is that we will be in negotiations by April 1st since Hemenway is desperate to close things out for future investors since the price of oil will force consolidation.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[orioleman]

pj,
have another Heiney ... You were number for 4 on the board :bleh: :bleh: :bleh:

 

[Dog Wonder]

Sounds like a personal attack.

Those Heinies are imported.

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Chill, nobody is going to get screwed over for $10bucks. If we can display the type of solidarity that I think exists for this, I think the retainer will be met. This isn't some fly by night attorney, he'll be in it to win. If there's a case and he loses then so be it, but nobody is screwing anyone. We're dealing with class people. Nobody is going to be pocketing the money, I'm sure all checks will be written to his firm and not individuals.

Let's also not lose focus of negotiations, which IMO, should be happening around the time the Mechanics ratify their agreement. We should hope they ratify it.
My guess is that we will be in negotiations by April 1st since Hemenway is desperate to close things out for future investors since the price of oil will force consolidation.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

That's not what I meant, but nevermind.

 

[Henderfuzz]

As an employee that works at a small station that was named in the last T.A. as one to get axed, I would like to offer my arguement. FWIW... the station I work at is unique. We handle USAirways mainline flts, Mesa RJ's, AND do the ramp work for 3 other carriers. So, in a sense, we are the company that has outsourced someone else. We earn our "beloved" UsAirways extra revenue (quite a bit actually) for peanuts on the dollar. We outbid the other company on the property that does contract ramp work. So, lets look at this objectively for the purpose of understanding all the relevant aspects of outsourced work.

Hire a company such as Servisair, ATS, Ogden (now Menzies), Worldwide, DGS etc... and pay them a decent wage but no flt. benefits and crummy health bennies. Any pride in the carrier they are providing service for? Nope.

Use our own company to do the work. We ALREADY make bottom dollar, so where is the substantial savings to outsource the work? All the GSE that is required to support the ops, and the monthly repair bills and fuel cost is one thing. I have seen the monthly repair bills for our station alone, and it is quite an expense actually. All the overtime necessary to fill the vacant lines, because we don't pay enough on an entry level basis to keep anyone. The people we are hiring for $9.00 an hour don't take pride and aren't being trained right either! Recently, new hires coming back from training in PHX are telling us that they aren't setting foot on the ramp!! WTF?!?! A week of classroom only?? Why even go to PHX for a week to learn "the ramp" Hell...we have all the videos for recurrent, watch them here and save 'em the trip...c'mon.

Anyway, my point is that there are many variables to keeping an outstation "in-house" or "out-sourced" I guess, one needs to weigh each variable against the revenue generated from each station to determine where there is revenue to make it worth it to keep the work "in-house."

My own personal opinion is (and I have stated this in previous posts) that any union with clout will FIGHT to keep the jobs of its members AT ANY COST. It is a shame that so many outstations on the EAST were thrown to the curb during BK. WE are not in BK now, and the mere thought of removal of stations is bothersome to many out here as it isn't warranted. If the company needs Fleet sacrifice, take my holiday pay, but don't take my JOB for pete's sake! If the S**t hits the fan, I'll head to a station where my job security is better.

From my understanding of us doing the outsourced work or any other company the biggest cost is liablity. From eqipment to many other items that cost the company besides salaries.
I do agree that if our starting pay was more inline with other companys not just airlines we would retain more people.
I remeber when at piedmont we did a lot of outsourced work and, always was told it was a good source of revenue.
It is something to think about what really is the cost of this.

 

[orioleman]

tim,
"My guess is that we will be in negotiations by April 1st since Hemenway is desperate to close things out for future investors since the price of oil will force consolidation."


Heard from a pretty reliable source that Hemenway is trying to wrap this present up for 1 last time before he bails in the merger mania.. I also heard HE doesn't give a flying

F*ck about any T/A but just wants to get ALL contracts extended into 2011 as that will be about the time he's up in aspen skiing in his newfound rich retirement.

sitting back and laughing at the naive employees of the former USairways..

I say send AL packing,,,