From a US Airways pilot to a AWA pilot

[AWA320]

My appologeez.

Now children......Take off your Ipod and put down your Wii.

This is airline pilot stuff.

Greeter.

You make no sense at all!! Now before you start with the children BS I was born in the early 60's so save that tired crap as well. A persons age means nothing at all in this arguement. Take a look at congress, are we to assume that since many are in their 70's and a few in there 80's that the president should always be older??? Your arguement fails to meet the minimum standard for intelligent.

Move on Walmart, it's time!! We all need a better payday and better work rules. DOH is dead and buried...

 

[Walmartgreeter]

[
Move on Walmart, it's time!! We all need a better payday and better work rules. DOH is dead and buried...
[/quote]

My payday and workrules are just fine, with advancement based on my DATE OF HIRE

14-1

14-1

Slam dunk?

I will "move on" just fine here under LOA 93, 190s, and International flying.

Greeter.

 

[AWA320]

[
Move on Walmart, it's time!! We all need a better payday and better work rules. DOH is dead and buried...
My payday and workrules are just fine, with advancement based on my DATE OF HIRE

14-1

14-1

Slam dunk?

I will "move on" just fine here under LOA 93, 190s, and International flying.

Greeter.

Good luck to you then my friend as you are truly lost. 14 to 1 for WHAT???????? For the pres of the association to discuss a solution on a contract. The arb case is over and will not be revisited under any circumstances. There will be no deals that effect that award period. ALPA is bound to section 45 at the hip why can't you see that?? You honestly think that ALPA is going to destroy itself over a few pilots?? No they won't....

So I will give you the 14to1 for another 26days but in the end you will have to face facts that ALPA will and must defend this award, here end the lesson.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

The arb case is over and will not be revisited under any circumstances. There will be no deals that effect that award period

Ya think?

Greeter.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Good luck to you then my friend as you are truly lost. 14 to 1 for WHAT???????? For the pres of the association to discuss a solution on a contract. The arb case is over and will not be revisited under any circumstances. There will be no deals that effect that award period. ALPA is bound to section 45 at the hip why can't you see that?? You honestly think that ALPA is going to destroy itself over a few pilots?? No they won't....

So I will give you the 14to1 for another 26days but in the end you will have to face facts that ALPA will and must defend this award, here end the lesson.

AWA320,

I predict that you will neither get your windfall nor your new and improved contract out of this situation. Not anytime soon.

On the other hand, I would be tickled aqua green if it came to you in any other means other than my back.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "So I will give you the 14to1 for another 26days but in the end you will have to face facts that ALPA will and must defend this award, here end the lesson."

USA320Pilot comments: It's obvious you did not talk with any ALPA EVP and last week's EC meeting.

If there is no consensual seniority integratin agreement or ALPA does not throw out the award like a number of EVP's have indicated then Bill Glynn's comments will come true and there is absolutely nothing you or any other AWA pilot can do about it!

As Bill said, "If we do decertify ALPA, and since we outnumber the AWA pilots by nearly 2 to 1, we will be taking you with us. We will form our own in-house union or go with a union like the Teamsters or APA. We will go with whoever looks at this award and sees the injustice of it all.

In addition, we are willing to keep both pilot groups separate. We realize we will not get the pay increases we would have enjoyed had we merged, but we would make that up as we upgraded to Captain or Captains of narrow body aircraft to widebody aircraft, etc. Those on furlough will be able to come back here knowing that at sometime in the near future, they will upgrade based on expansion and attrition through retirements.

Because of our lower pay structure, we will probably receive any new International flying and of course, we still keep all of the new E190 flying. No more joint negotiations.

In a merger with another carrier, we will still prevail because we will have the policy that protects us written into our new union bylaws.

When I was at the Herndon rally and saw as many Captains as F/O's, I realized for the first time just how unified and angry this group really is. We have had enough and we won't take any more. We would never allow the company to mess with our seniority, we sure as hell won't allow our union to do it."

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Mr Furlough]

Jetbaboon,

So your career expectations weigh more heavily than mine? Or anyone else's? Come on rad dude! According to your doctrine, we F/Os would be relative senioritied to death under your system. An F/O for life during a consolidating industry! Tell me, where does it state in the ALPA merger policy the concept of "relative seniority"?

Guess what...IT DOESN'T!!!!

When you don't see a windfall from a 2 year pilot suddenly becoming senior to an 18 yr pilot, than you clearly don't have an appreciation for years of service and what it means to earn them.

On a hunch, I just bet you think you know more than everyone you fly with-don't cha Skippy?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

This award WHICH WILL STAND by the way is more than fair. So you guys go ahead and talk your little decert effort and prepare yourselves to be placed in receivership as a result.

Get over it and move on EYE or be left behind financially as that train is leaving the station too!!

I know it was 100 degrees in Phoenix today, so I hate to but a damper on your Fantasyland mirage. Better move to Texas because that award is about to have a chainsaw taken to it. As for the financial "train" , say what? Like you guys make a huge amount more? Again, that heat must be getting to you. That half-baked mentality is making you look only at the short term future. Get used to being trapped like sand rats in the desert. It's a prickly issue for sure, but like USA320PILOT said, get used to 50 retirements a year and no growth. West is not where the money is, East is.

Later,
Eye

 

[phasersonstun2]

Prediction:


Parker, in a quest to save the airline, proposes a growth plan based on a ratio that preserves jobs on both sides of the country with the understanding that only a certain percentage can transfer left and right for a peroid of X years, or a growth of Y percent in block hours. After a period of years, the flying ratio dissolves and the listis the list.

This will allow BOTH sides to enjoy a career.

Either that or Parker will merge the airline again ASAP.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Prediction:
"proposes a growth".... "preserves jobs"

You've got to be kidding. That's the cool aid talking boys and girls. I promise you: There will be substantial Pilot furloughs and down grades within the next five years.

That's simply the nature of staking your living in the Northeast market. Couple that with a management team that can't even get a software problem ironed out...well you get my drift.

 

[exB717Flyer]

We will go with whoever looks at this award and sees the injustice of it all.

Guess that means an in-house union. And if you expect that to improve your quality of life any I'll gladly sell you an Iranian nuke plant.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

I predict that you will neither get your windfall nor your new and improved contract out of this situation. Not anytime soon.

On the other hand, I would be tickled aqua green if it came to you in any other means other than my back.

But you think you are going to get yours on my back!! I owe you squat and If you want to live in a BK contract then have at it but we won't and we have no problems leaving you in it and behind. Trains leaving the station and leaving you in it!! You haven't made any smart decisions yet so the move to stay at regional pay doesn't suprise me at all.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "So I will give you the 14to1 for another 26days but in the end you will have to face facts that ALPA will and must defend this award, here end the lesson."

USA320Pilot comments: It's obvious you did not talk with any ALPA EVP and last week's EC meeting.

If there is no consensual seniority integratin agreement or ALPA does not throw out the award like a number of EVP's have indicated then Bill Glynn's comments will come true and there is absolutely nothing you or any other AWA pilot can do about it!

As Bill said, "If we do decertify ALPA, and since we outnumber the AWA pilots by nearly 2 to 1, we will be taking you with us. We will form our own in-house union or go with a union like the Teamsters or APA. We will go with whoever looks at this award and sees the injustice of it all.

In addition, we are willing to keep both pilot groups separate. We realize we will not get the pay increases we would have enjoyed had we merged, but we would make that up as we upgraded to Captain or Captains of narrow body aircraft to widebody aircraft, etc. Those on furlough will be able to come back here knowing that at sometime in the near future, they will upgrade based on expansion and attrition through retirements.

Because of our lower pay structure, we will probably receive any new International flying and of course, we still keep all of the new E190 flying. No more joint negotiations.

In a merger with another carrier, we will still prevail because we will have the policy that protects us written into our new union bylaws.

When I was at the Herndon rally and saw as many Captains as F/O's, I realized for the first time just how unified and angry this group really is. We have had enough and we won't take any more. We would never allow the company to mess with our seniority, we sure as hell won't allow our union to do it."

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

You simply can not be that stupid! I refuse to belive it. You Bill and anyone else you can dream up actually think you can just change unions and make a arbitration go away?? What happens when you get sued?? What federal court in this country is just going to allow you to simply walk away and change the rules simply because you don't like the outcome?? Please you're killing me.

The EVP's will not sacrafice ALPA for you. Everyone is watching this one with a close eye and you have no other air carrier supporting your cause, It's all sour grapes and everyone knows it. You will be told by national that after careful consideration and legal review we can not interfere!! Yeah talked to those EVP's as well and asked them all the same question, what did ALPA legal say when you were told that over 1900 DFR lawsuits were soon to be filed against ALPA?? Answer, you won't need to!!

Now lets burn this place down together I'll bring the gasoline and matches

 

[aquagreen73s]

You simply can not be that stupid! I refuse to belive it.

Believe it.

 

[JetMonkey]

Jetbaboon,

So your career expectations weigh more heavily than mine? Or anyone else's? Come on rad dude! According to your doctrine, we F/Os would be relative senioritied to death under your system. An F/O for life during a consolidating industry! Tell me, where does it state in the ALPA merger policy the concept of "relative seniority"?

Guess what...IT DOESN'T!!!!

When you don't see a windfall from a 2 year pilot suddenly becoming senior to an 18 yr pilot, than you clearly don't have an appreciation for years of service and what it means to earn them.

On a hunch, I just bet you think you know more than everyone you fly with-don't cha Skippy?

You keep leaving out two very important words in your rethoric. Drop in the words "ACTIVE" for your 2 yr. and "FURLOUGHED" for the 18 yr pilot in your example. Do you see a difference anywhere there?

You're right the policy doesn't say anything about relative niether. I'm not saying DOH wouldn't work on most mergers, just not on this one. Why? because the desparancys between the dates of hires of both groups would create a staple job for one group of ACTIVE pilots. That's why relative works! there's no windfall for either side of ACTIVES. Now what you keep trying to include is the furloughees in that group. All you have to do is look back at past mergers, where are furloughes usually slotted? Is it fair what Siegal and Wolf did to you guys? Hell yes, it's sucks, I remember that weasal when he was running Continenal Express. I can't answer weather my expectations weigh more than yours, but the arbitrator did. He kept pre-merger expectations and that's what the policy dictates, no more no less.