From a US Airways pilot to a AWA pilot

[EyeInTheSky]

All the more reason to quit!!!!

Are we mad that the union found problems with the award? 14-1; the union leaders agree that the award is severely flawed. Get used to it, that award will NEVER be implemented at US Airways. It's going to take work to come to an equitable and fair agreement. You can't get away with stealing people's senority.

Later,
Eye

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

I agree - never meant to imply anything else. We are all in AQP effective July and the 'West' certificate disappears in September. So what is your point again?

I know very well what the 'inputs are for AQP. What I think you are trying to say is there's leverage with the voluntary safety programs and if east pulls out of them AQP comes to a grinding halt? LOL - What you fail to realize is once the west operation is under the east certificate it will not matter what the east does with their 'voluntary programs', there will continue to be data driven from 'West' programs that will be sufficient input for AQP. You see, after certificate merge for all practical purposes the west operation IS the ‘East’ from an FAA standpoint. I know, a bit much to think about, but trust me, there is no leverage there pal. Our CMO (east) will recognize what is going on and will accommodate the Company’s needs. You may think you have all of this figured out but me thinks the Company is one step ahead of you.

I have said it before and I’ll say it again, there is only one winner here and it is the Company. They are loving every minute of it to the tune of at least 112 million year. It really irritates the #### out of me but that is where we are and I put all of the blame squarely on the East leadership and their failed strategy.

Actually CC, you "should check it yourself." Pilot training as of June 1 will be performed under the US Airways (USAA105) FAA approved Advanced Qualification Program (AQP)--as of that date America West's pilot training program ceases to exist.

Do you know all of the inputs required in order to continue operating an AQP? It requires some voluntary programs that operate with ALPA (AAA) approval. No voluntary program, no pilot training until the old program can be spun back up. Your sources probably also know that Resource Planning has already built staffing based upon the AQP training times. Any return to the old system of training explodes staffing at the worst possible time.
There is bluster a-plenty on this web board, but continued taunts don't get us any closer to anyone's goals. So put that tongue back in your mouth, mate.

Cheers.

 

[Barberpole]

Are we mad that the union found problems with the award? 14-1; the union leaders agree that the award is severely flawed. Get used to it, that award will NEVER be implemented at US Airways. It's going to take work to come to an equitable and fair agreement. You can't get away with stealing people's senority.

Later,
Eye

So many pilots on this board seem to lack any critical reading skills. I am assuming that you actually read the resolution. Please point out where the Executive Council resolution says anything about the award being flawed. They carefully worded the resolution and all it says is that basically the parties involved need to talk before the next EC meeting in June. Unfortunately for the east our MEC passed a resolution stating that under no circumstances will the award be altered in any manner by West pilots through the negotiating process. You are not going to get a thing from us.

Prater is trying to talk you down from the ledge with the EC resolution. He is hoping that an extra month might help. Do you get it yet? He is not going to risk Alpa in its entirety through a DFR lawsuit by changing the rules after the game in order to placate a group of 'sore losers.' I tend to think the east is going to be very embarrassed by their behavior several years down the road.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Barberpole,

Barberpole said: "Unfortunately for the east our MEC passed a resolution stating that under no circumstances will the award be altered in any manner by West pilots through the negotiating process. You are not going to get a thing from us."

USA320Pilot comments: That's fine and something the East pilot group would endorse. Without a consensual seniority integration agreement between the two pilot groups there will not be a joint contract. The majority of the East pilots are willing to accept that.

Why? Per the Transition Agreement the East keeps all of its current flying, its attrition, its Crew bases, all of the EMB-190s, etc. The East pilot group would still get meaningful pay raises, significant recalls (386 pilots through the July 1 permanent bid so far in 2007), improved quality of life, and growth up the seniority list.

Also noteworthy, East First Officers would become Captains, East Reserves would become Blockholders, East Narrowbody pilots would become Widebody pilots, and East pilots would get the majority of the European expansion - all providing meaningful pay raises.

Furthermore, the East pilots could encourage the company to "whip saw" the West pilots.

What do the West pilots get? Nothing, but about 50 retirements per year, no growth, no pay raises (unless there is Section VI negotiation/new AWA pilot CBA), and if there is a Section VI negotiation strike - many, many East pilots have said they would likely fly right through it. 😱

The company has said over-and-over it is more than willing to operate the two companies separate and the East pilots are too.

Therefore, lets just stay status quo. Is that o.k. with you?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Seatacus]

All the more reason to quit!!!!

I am assuming that some may be thinking if you quit your out of work, then why not run the company into chapter 7 and have all of us share the misery. Like I said, some Easties feel like there is nothing to lose.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Oh great one, thank you for the crystal ball glimpse into our future. Your comment on scabbing says it all about your character.

You are despicable and a disgrace to the entire profession!

Barberpole,

Furthermore, the East pilots could encourage the company to "whip saw" the West pilots.

What do the West pilots get? Nothing, but about 50 retirements per year, no growth, no pay raises (unless there is Section VI negotiation/new AWA pilot CBA), and if there is a Section VI negotiation strike - many, many East pilots have said they would likely fly right through it. 😱

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[AWA320]

Are we mad that the union found problems with the award? 14-1; the union leaders agree that the award is severely flawed. Get used to it, that award will NEVER be implemented at US Airways. It's going to take work to come to an equitable and fair agreement. You can't get away with stealing people's senority.

Later,
Eye

Mad???? No eye you missed the entire point of the ec position and again believe the hype. They have no power to interfere and you WILL find this out in a month. How many times are you people going to let your elected reps lie to you and get away with it??? Mad, that's a laugh! If anyone one stole anything from you it was your prior management. This award WHICH WILL STAND by the way is more than fair. So you guys go ahead and talk your little decert effort and prepare yourselves to be placed in receivership as a result.

Get over it and move on EYE or be left behind financially as that train is leaving the station too!!

 

[AWA320]

Barberpole,

Barberpole said: "Unfortunately for the east our MEC passed a resolution stating that under no circumstances will the award be altered in any manner by West pilots through the negotiating process. You are not going to get a thing from us."

USA320Pilot comments: That's fine and something the East pilot group would endorse. Without a consensual seniority integration agreement between the two pilot groups there will not be a joint contract. The majority of the East pilots are willing to accept that.

Why? Per the Transition Agreement the East keeps all of its current flying, its attrition, its Crew bases, all of the EMB-190s, etc. The East pilot group would still get meaningful pay raises, significant recalls (386 pilots through the July 1 permanent bid so far in 2007), improved quality of life, and growth up the seniority list.

Also noteworthy, East First Officers would become Captains, East Reserves would become Blockholders, East Narrowbody pilots would become Widebody pilots, and East pilots would get the majority of the European expansion - all providing meaningful pay raises.

Furthermore, the East pilots could encourage the company to "whip saw" the West pilots.

What do the West pilots get? Nothing, but about 50 retirements per year, no growth, no pay raises (unless there is Section VI negotiation/new AWA pilot CBA), and if there is a Section VI negotiation strike - many, many East pilots have said they would likely fly right through it. 😱

The company has said over-and-over it is more than willing to operate the two companies separate and the East pilots are too.

Therefore, lets just stay status quo. Is that o.k. with you?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Once a scab always a scab huh?? You talk of whipsawing and pitting yourself against your fellow pilots. You learned nothing from your scab days at UAL did you?? You are so far off that it's not even funny anymore. You were lied to by your elected leaders and continue to be lied to yet you do nothing about it. Now you are going to left behind even further shortly but I bet you won't see that coming either. Your problem is the twelve you people put in office and the sooner you realize that the better you'll be.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Oh great one, thank you for the crystal ball glimpse into our future. Your comment on scabbing says it all about your character.

You are despicable and a disgrace to the entire profession!
[/quote]

My first day of employment by an airline was April of 85...and I showed up for my trip..as did 320, and went on strike. Many of the pilots that went ahead of us on the combined U/AWA list were in grade school at that time.

I will cross the picket line of any airline that does not respect the concept of seniority.

I will continue to fly at U East if you try a work action after your 4 or 5 years of a Section VI process.

Go for it. I have nothing else to lose.

Greeter.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I will cross the picket line of any airline that does not respect the concept of seniority.

I sincerely hope you get the chance to be the SCAB you've always wanted to be.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I sincerely hope you get the chance to be the SCAB you've always wanted to be.

My pleasure, indeed.

Greeter.

 

[AWA320]

Oh great one, thank you for the crystal ball glimpse into our future. Your comment on scabbing says it all about your character.

You are despicable and a disgrace to the entire profession!
My first day of employment by an airline was April of 85...and I showed up for my trip..as did 320, and went on strike. Many of the pilots that went ahead of us on the combined U/AWA list were in grade school at that time.

I will cross the picket line of any airline that does not respect the concept of seniority.

I will continue to fly at U East if you try a work action after your 4 or 5 years of a Section VI process.

Go for it. I have nothing else to lose.

Oh brother are you guys about to get your feelings hurt. Sometimes that light at the end of the tunnel is really a train!!! Oh well you were lied to by your reps and did nothing, you continue to back a losing position with a stale arguement that the entire arb panel saw thru and now you go to national and ask them to risk the entire union for you?? Yeah you won't see that light for what it is and will be hit yet again. Deal with your real problem and get rid of your reps!!!



Greeter.

 

[Mr Furlough]

"Here is the deal - The EC will not unilaterally change or overturn the award, period! Wanna bet?"

Yes, why yes please let me bet on that!

"Any work action by you or others will be dealt with swiftly by the Company."

Swiftly? Right. The've been just like greezed lighting with the shares problem!!! And they've been all over the contract talks...evan know dragging their feet has been cost'n them big.

The gap between your discription of how this enept management will act and the reality of the matter is so wide that you could slip the huge pile of do-do that Nicolau droped on us through it!!!

 

[JetMonkey]

Wow, I am almost at a loss for words (not really!). You clearly don't possess the same vantage point of this industry as I do. Please don't take that as an insult-as that is not the intent. Imagine, if you will, that in 15 years from now, you have a family to support (you know, kids to put thru college and alike), and at that very moment-YOU are placed below a three year guy during a merger.

It cracks me up that 9-11 + bad management brings ME to the point that 3 year guys actually feels as though they have a right to be senior to me. For shame.

How do YOU justify that I should go out on the next furlough prior to you? We both work for the same company, I have 18 years, you 3. How do you justify the 18 year guy being furloughed ahead of yourself? Don't you feel just a little bit uneasy about that? If not, what gives you the right?

It's called "career expectations". I didn't mean to disgust anyone with my opinion, all I ever wanted out of this was for it to be fair and adhear to the policy. If your half way down your list, then I always believed ending up half way down the new list was the fairest way. There was never anything in the policy that stated DOH or longevity, you people wanted to ADD all that. Why? because you all have been flying longer and desirved it?

Second, there will be mixed crews, you can bet on that. Your projections of Pilots in the west going east and visa versa are wrong. What kind of environment do you anticipate when you are a Captain and your F/O has 15+ years on you? Tension comes to mind, and that has no place in our flight decks.


Than why not simply put it into writing?

You had your chance, but you wouldn't budge off that DOH bandwaggon.

And 1800+ pilots got stapled to the bottom. In fact, most are more experienced in this business than you will be for a great deal of time. Further, they are more experienced that 2/3rds of the people you fly with today. And you think you didn't get a windfall?

Yup that's right. You still wanna beat this horse? What part of furloughed vs. ACTIVE don't you understand? experience and sacrifice have NOTHING to do with it. As I said if you're 50% down your list repectfully, then you should end up at the same posistion, no more no less. That's all I ever wanted, that way there's NO WINDFALL. Your proposed list was obsured. Did you really think the arbitrator was goning to put furloughes on top of ACTIVE CAPTAINS??? I mean come on really, furloughes on top of actual working captains. How crazy is that concept.

And stapling US to the bottom is the answer ha? It's not about making up for anything, it's about the rightful place for each pilot based upon DOH. I am truly sorry that you were hired just 3 years ago. In my third year, I was 32 years old, no wife, no kids, simple living-because I knew I was junior and handled the risks that go along with it. I didn't look to staple hundreds of senior pilots underneath me to handle my responsibilities under the seniority system.

Well looks like you were ahead of game than me. In my third year I DO have all those things. What did you do with all your free money back then? Go back to the top and re-read the first thing I wrote. If you were furloughed back in 5/05 you knew damn good and well you were not coming back, if you tell me you did then I seriously question your honesty sir. Everyone gone for almost four years a sencond trip to bk court, no cash left and no reorganisation plan filed. It definately looked bleek to say the least. I on the other hand should've have at least 500 below me and and off reserve, but I don't while your #1 furloughee has since been recalled and now has over 300 below him. Where's the fairness in that?



Well I'd love to know what your definition will be in 15 years from now.

The same as it is now, if I'm at the bottom because of "Daquri Doug" or whoever else it is that totally f%$#s up my career, then I'll expect to end up in the same posistion. It's not fair to take it out on someone else's career expectation.

Frankly, I am disgusted with your post. When I was in your position it was unconceivable for me to step over an 18 year guy. Yet you have no problem with it. And in that day, there was no 9-11 that played a part in all of this. Yet here you are, ready to cash in on it all.

As I said, not trying to offend and not trying to step over someone who's RELATIVELY senior to me.


Tell me, where were you 15 years ago? Because I was flying airplanes for usairways.

Stuck in an airport gift shop watching you guys.

PS, please try using spell check!!!!!

Yeah, I figured there were some bad words in there. My appologeez. 😛

 

[Walmartgreeter]

My appologeez.

Now children......Take off your Ipod and put down your Wii.

This is airline pilot stuff.

Greeter.