MEC Chairman's Letter to AWA Pilots Regarding E190 Decision

[BoeingBoy]

Just to point out that EMB190 FO postions go to USAir furloughed even in the west.

Interesting situation. Would a furloughed East pilot, who had previously taken a "new hire" job at West, count as a West pilot or East pilot for the splitting of the 190 vacancies? Of course, considering the F/O pay on the 190, the F/O slots may go unbid by West pilots but there's the Capt slots.

So how do think this might affect the seniority list arbitration process?

That's way, way above my pay grade.....

What sucks is that the arbitrator disregarded the Transition Agreement by making the AWA slots effective only after the transition is complete! The real winner in this award: Doug Parker.

The same could be said of the 757 agreement between the MEC's. West can't get any of these "reserved" jobs till integration, giving at least a little incentive to settle the combined contract negotiations sooner rather than later. On the other side, a "cost neutral" combined contract is better than what we Easties have now, which provides some incentive to get a combined contract even if it means some losses for the West folks.

Potential winners - Parker and Glass unless both sides stand firm for nothing less than "cost plus".

It'll sure be interesting.....

Jim

 

[exB717Flyer]

Would a furloughed East pilot, who had previously taken a "new hire" job at West, count as a West pilot or East pilot for the splitting of the 190 vacancies?

The Transition Agreement dictates that a West recallee may choose to return to the East. My take is that after the integration is settled this will not be an issue.

The same could be said of the 757 agreement between the MEC's.

The difference was that the 757's arrived before the staffing issue could be resoved. The Company won due to that fait accompli.

 

[luvn737s]

The arbitrators award (as well as in the 757 case) takes a solution that would be simple and fair (award the positions now) and makes it patently unfair. After the painful process of choosing who gets screwed, there is a second little (for lack of a more delicate phrase) "one for the road" by now placing some AWA pilots ahead of where the arbitrated seniority had placed them.

Many are in a dither because they feel this decsion portends the seniority integration, which is pretty far-fetched. If this solution was applied to seniority, there would be a massive bump and flush which would never pass with Parker. If there was no integration barrier, and if AWA MEC wasn't so wedded to complexity, the decision would have been very different.

 

[N924PS]

The arbitrators award (as well as in the 757 case) takes a solution that would be simple

and fair (award the positions now) and makes it patently unfair. After the painful process of choosing who gets screwed, there is a second little (for lack of a more delicate phrase) "one for the road" by now placing some AWA pilots ahead of where the arbitrated seniority had placed them.

Not quite sure what you mean here. No seniority issues have been arbitrated as yet,

 

[luvn737s]

Not quite sure what you mean here. No seniority issues have been arbitrated as yet,

Once the seniority integration has been complete, this E190 decision and the 757 decision will rip open the wounds afresh. Pilots who were counting the days to upgrade will suddenly see those opportunities cutoff to allow the AWA pilots to take the slots reserved for them.

 

[Swaayze]

I think many of the junior FO's will take the position.

Irrelevant. After the merge there will be no truly junior West FOs. They will have all the East furloughees below them IMO. Clearly the 190 right seat is a furloughee position for some time to come.

 

[chevyman]

Irrelevant. After the merge there will be no truly junior West FOs. They will have all the East furloughees below them IMO. Clearly the 190 right seat is a furloughee position for some time to come.



What are you sniffing dude?

It will be a slotting exercise as defined by the recoginition of the furloughees in the 1/3 and 2/3 allocation E190 arbitration. Had the west accepted the 60/40 offered by the east the furloughees would not have been recognized and there would have been more of a possibility of a staple job. Thanks west side, you inadvertently enabled the seniority integration arbitrator to be forced to recognize the furloughees and slot them accordingly.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Once the seniority integration has been complete, this E190 decision and the 757 decision will rip open the wounds afresh.

Do you mean to imply that those decisions should be scrapped even though that means opening wounds on the West side? This is the largest pilot integration in history and there's gonna be a lot of displeased people, probably including myself. Deal with it.

 

[N924PS]

Irrelevant. After the merge there will be no truly junior West FOs. They will have all the East furloughees below them IMO. Clearly the 190 right seat is a furloughee position for some time to come.

I don't think so. Many of the current furloughees had been flying up to 15 years prior to being furloughed. If fair and equitable is the mantra of this integration, the arbitrator could not in good faith allow someone who has been on the property a few years leapfrog these individuals. That would be a windfall.

When they return from furlough they will go to their rightful place on the seniority list, and the junior West FOs will remain so.

 

[exB717Flyer]

If fair and equitable is the mantra of this integration, the arbitrator could not in good faith allow someone who has been on the property a few years leapfrog these individuals.

First of all, I would think the recent 190 arbitration reward would convince more people the futility of making predictions. Second, what you refer to as leapfrogging goes both ways, as in, why should pilots on furlough status on the date of the merger closing leapfrog ahead of pilots who were currently employed? The "fair and equitable" mantra may only be judged by an impartial third party.

Let's face it: the furloughees deserve not only to be recalled but to regain their captain positions where appropriate but nowhere in ALPA Merger Policy is the word "deserve" mentioned. The Westies don't deserve the stagnation we've experienced since the merger announcement either. So let's just not use the word "deserve" because it's irrelevant. We can use expressions like "windfall at the others' expense" and "career expectations" but keep in mind that there's an ocean of distance between opinions on those. What's the point in arguing here?

 

[Freighterguynow]

Irrelevant. After the merge there will be no truly junior West FOs. They will have all the East furloughees below them IMO.

Here's to fences so high you can see them from the space shuttle.

 

[ClueByFour]

I don't think so. Many of the current furloughees had been flying up to 15 years prior to being furloughed. If fair and equitable is the mantra of this integration, the arbitrator could not in good faith allow someone who has been on the property a few years leapfrog these individuals. That would be a windfall.

When they return from furlough they will go to their rightful place on the seniority list, and the junior West FOs will remain so.

Why should someone who brought no job to a merger be slotted ahead of someone who did?

As an outsider, I'm constantly amazed by the entitlement logic, especially as it pertains to someone who came to the table with no job.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I don't think so. Many of the current furloughees had been flying up to 15 years prior to being furloughed. If fair and equitable is the mantra of this integration, the arbitrator could not in good faith allow someone who has been on the property a few years leapfrog these individuals. That would be a windfall.

When they return from furlough they will go to their rightful place on the seniority list, and the junior West FOs will remain so.

I see your point, but I can also see another way to look at it as well. Absent the merger, when the first furloughee got called back, he would have had no people behind him. Now with the merger, under your scenario, the same guy gets called back and now has hundreds of guys below him, maybe even over a thousand, the instant he steps back. Is that not a windfall of sorts?

We truly do need a neutral arbitrator, its a good thing we've got one I guess. The east guys do deserve to make some strides, but I also submit that the west guys should not be completely shut out of forward movement for years to come.

 

[700UW]

They had to give up their job to fund the concessions, I would say a 100% paycut and loss of insurance, pension and numerous other things, entitles them to their seniority and a job.

 

[N924PS]

Why should someone who brought no job to a merger be slotted ahead of someone who did?

As an outsider, I'm constantly amazed by the entitlement logic, especially as it pertains to someone who came to the table with no job.

Because the furloughees have been on the property previously. The ones that have been here up to fifteen years and the ones that were furloughed for many years then recalled and furloughed again.

I don't buy the "Didn't bring a job" argument. The furloughees were forced into their situation because of 9/11, two bankruptcies at East, etc. Concessions they made while on the property kept the ship from sinking, except it caused them to be furloughed. They should not lose 15 plus years of seniority in merger process. Unacceptable.